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Sling Trebuchet · 05-21-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jopsy Pendragon

FTFY.

MOST people exist in multiple identity circles. They may use the same name, they may use a nickname or even a fictional name: Family, School Friends, Work Friends, Church Friends, Bar Friends, Bowling Friends, Neighbor Friends, Multiple Online Game Friends, Multiple Online Community Friends, ...

If FB were a USEFUL social networking tool, it would allow us to mix or separate the different zones of our 'social network' as we wished, rather than lumping them all together into one big vomitoruim.
...

Rod Humble gets/got this.
Dusan Writer’s Metaverse » Virtual Dialogues: My Conversation with Rod Humble, CEO of Linden Lab

Quote:

I asked Humble whether he subscribed to the conventional wisdom that in the digital age, privacy is dead:

No, I don’t think that the conventional wisdom is the only way to look at it. Privacy is extremely important for anyone putting themselves out there, expressing themselves, or expressing a side of themselves through an avatar. People don’t want other people to connect the dots from their avatar to their real life person – or even, for that matter, to an alt. One of the ethical obligations we have is to protect people’s privacy.
People come to Second Life because they want a story, they want to be in a story….and we have an ethical obligation to protect that.
I’m not so sure that the conventional wisdom makes any sense. Yes, it might be technically easy to track people and all that. But in the long-term I’m optimistic that we’ll see the pendulum swing back in the other direction towards more privacy.

...

The Avatar
Humble doesn’t just believe that we need privacy and control over what we disclose – he believes the avatar is a powerful and deep-seated vehicle for expressing and exploring ourselves:
“It’s not unlike the persona I portray on Facebook I suppose. I mean, I’m very deliberate about what I post on Facebook. It’s a persona. I’m not sure it’s a construct, but it’s certainly an aspect of me.
Now, Second Life lets you really extend those dimensions, the ways you can show yourself.
I don’t want to get all geeky about it, but I sort of see this day coming when there’s a formalization of identity that happens. We haven’t had the tools before to formalize our broken up bits of identity.
See, there’s the me who goes to school meetings with my kids and that’s a very well established identity. And there’s the me who plays shooter games online and I don’t want those separate identities to mix up. It’s not appropriate.
We can increasingly go deep on each element of identity and they become more valuable and I can’t help thinking that if we formalize the structures around those identities and have the tools to do that it might actually change us – it might change the person.
The identity system itself influences the person.

Brenda Connolly · 05-21-2011, 06:40 PM

Has Hamlet weighed in on this yet?

Ciaran Laval · 05-21-2011, 07:08 PM

The elephant in the room on Facebook is that the minimum age is thirteen, thirteen year olds are not in a position to agree to sharing the information Facebook insists you must share. I'm not quite sure how they get away with this.

Brenda Connolly · 05-21-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran Laval

The elephant in the room on Facebook is that the minimum age is thirteen, thirteen year olds are not in a position to agree to sharing the information Facebook insists you must share. I'm not quite sure how they get away with this.

Ossian · 05-21-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenda Connolly

Has Hamlet weighed in on this yet?

He wants FULL Facebook integration, whatever that means.

DanielRavenNest · 05-21-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitomi Tiponi

And the chances of that being correctly matched are minimal ....just like with Redzone, who had a large number of users who didn't seem to care about accuracy either.

I think Facebook has better database geeks than Redzone had.

As an example, I took the most common first name (James) and the most common last name (Smith), and a big city (Atlanta), and that narrows it down to 95 people. Now add some additional info, like IP address and ping time, and they can probably narrow that down to a smaller group. Cross check with spouse name, or any other personal info helpfully provided on the FB profile, and I think you can nail it down to a single person.

Even if the name matching is not perfect, it is still commercially valuable. In the days of paper mailing lists, you only needed a statistical connection for it to be a worthwhile list, it didn't have to be perfect.

Da5id Weatherwax · 05-21-2011, 08:33 PM

My FB is RL only. It contains my full resume, links only to people I know IRL and only to groups that are part of my RL. Same info as can be found on my linkedIn profile if you know who I am. No SL on MY FB. If I want to comment on techcrunch then I suspect my comments will be given more weight if they are coming from the RL geek with 25+ years experience in the biz than from the fictional borg. Same for slashdot, kos, groklaw, etc.... SLU however has my "real" SL identity and my track record here is predicated on only my SL activities. folks that I know in both worlds and trust sometimes know both. MN has pretty good "stalker laws" that could apply just in case any of them do prove unworthy of that trust too.

Free Xue · 05-21-2011, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenda Connolly

Good morning, President Tintin. Nice tan.

Penny Patton · 05-21-2011, 10:08 PM

Oh, good. I wasn't the only one who saw that.

**Cristiano** · 05-21-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ossian

He wants FULL Facebook integration, whatever that means.

It means his blog having full access to your profiles for marketing information to sell to advertisers on his site.

Ann Otoole · 05-21-2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

It means his blog having full access to your profiles for marketing information to sell to advertisers on his site.

I love my hosts file. If everyone blocked all ad services then they would die off.

**Joshua Nightshade** · 05-21-2011, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argent Stonecutter

I don't think you understand the term "chilling effect". I gave you a link, but if that's too much trouble for you... Google is your friend.

I understand it perfectly.

Newsflash, it's been of questionable judgment to make public statements under an identity that can be connected to [YOUR_LARGE_COMPANY_HERE] since the dawn of communication.

ZOMG chilling effect!

I don't give a fuck what TechCrunch chooses to do on its own site.

**Joshua Nightshade** · 05-21-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talwyn Mills

Techcrunch was an example and you say you don't care because you never wanted to comment over there, which is fair enough I suppose.

But lets assume for the moment that for some reason SLU switched to a authentication system that required a facebook account to log in (ignoring for a moment the technical implementation of such a system and the improbability of it happening), would you be happy walking away from a community your so active in (41k posts) or would you complain?

I think I'm safe in saying very few people would say "Oh well" and walk away from something they are so active in.

If it bothered me that much, absolutely.

Or does it only bother you enough to bitch about it, but not enough to follow through with any principled stance? That strikes me as a waste of time.

**Joshua Nightshade** · 05-21-2011, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielRavenNest

Hi, my name is Abdul Mohammed, from Syria, and there is a big protest going on here (see photo)

Hold on, someone is at the door....

*Bang*

(Sometimes you need to be anonymous)

Oh man. And I thought the comparison of deleted SL Facebook accounts to marginalised minorities was the most ridiculous thing posted in this thread.

**Joshua Nightshade** · 05-21-2011, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jopsy Pendragon

FTFY.

That's not remotely close to what I said, and as I haven't called anyone at all "stupid," I find it highly offensive that you'd misrepresent what I did say.

Yes, I find the "freedom protests" over disabled cartoon character avatars to be stupid, but that's quite different from what you proclaimed.

It's not hard logic to follow. It doesn't matter if Jopsy is the identity you prefer to be known as everywhere else. Facebook explicitly underscores REAL LIFE IDENTITY, so unless it's on your birth certificate or you've filed a name change, it's an identity they are disinterested in. If you have a problem with that, don't use the site.

I don't understand where this confuses people so much that they believe throwing tantrums over what a private company chooses to do makes any sense.

**Joshua Nightshade** · 05-21-2011, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da5id Weatherwax

My FB is RL only. It contains my full resume, links only to people I know IRL and only to groups that are part of my RL. Same info as can be found on my linkedIn profile if you know who I am. No SL on MY FB. If I want to comment on techcrunch then I suspect my comments will be given more weight if they are coming from the RL geek with 25+ years experience in the biz than from the fictional borg. Same for slashdot, kos, groklaw, etc.... SLU however has my "real" SL identity and my track record here is predicated on only my SL activities. folks that I know in both worlds and trust sometimes know both. MN has pretty good "stalker laws" that could apply just in case any of them do prove unworthy of that trust too.

I have no interest in commenting through Facebook on sites like TechCrunch simply because I don't want that shit being published on my wall.

I find it outrageous when any integrated app does that on its own anyway. I downloaded a Facebook client for my Nokia N900 a few months back and when I first logged in, it published "Joshua is checking out Facebook with so and so app!" without even informing me it was going to do that.

I deleted that entry, deleted the app entirely, and wrote a very hostile email to the developer about it.

I certainly don't have any interest in spamming people on my friends list with "Joshua left a comment on so and so blog," so as a feature it completely disinterests me.

I can see where blogs might think it's useful, however. Hoping that if your asinine trolling comment will be attached to a RL identity, perhaps you won't post it, but I think they underestimate how much dumbasses care about being seen as dumbasses. Just look at those tumblr blogs about stupid posts people put on Facebook about Osama being killed.

**Cristiano** · 05-22-2011, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argent Stonecutter

I don't think you understand the term "chilling effect". I gave you a link, but if that's too much trouble for you... Google is your friend.

TechCrunch has cut themselves off from honest comments about technology from people working at companies with employment contracts like mine. This seems to me to be a startlingly stupid move for a site that pretends to be doing journalism.

Except you can also comment with a Yahoo account.

**Joshua Nightshade** · 05-22-2011, 12:02 AM

Oh god Yahoo's the next Facebook and they hate virtual avatards.

Jopsy Pendragon · 05-22-2011, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

That's not remotely close to what I said, and as I haven't called anyone at all "stupid," I find it highly offensive that you'd misrepresent what I did say.

yeah yeah, you were so respectful in your disdain for people that use FB how could I possibly take that interpretation of what you said.

Identity is more than a name on a piece of paper. You implied as such yourself, in that there's countless people in FB using the same name as you already so what purpose does that serve?

And seriously... FB has >>>NO RIGHT<<< to access either my birth certificate nor my driver's license without my consent.

They can ask nicely... I can refuse... they can close my account if I don't provide information they request.

They're not allowed to VERIFY my information without my consent, and I'm not granting it.

If things change and suddenly FB can start accessing that kind of private personal data without our consent ... trust me, I'll be disowning family and friends if they don't terminate their FB accounts promptly.

**Joshua Nightshade** · 05-22-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jopsy Pendragon

yeah yeah, you were so respectful in your disdain for people that use FB how could I possibly take that interpretation of what you said.

Disdain for people who use Facebook? Um, I use Facebook. Are you even paying attention?

Quote:

Identity is more than a name on a piece of paper.

We're not getting into this esoteric discussion. It's irrelevant. Identity is defined by Facebook in their terms of service. If your identity does not match that definition, it has no relevance to anything else. This is not wishy-washy woulds and shoulds and coulds, it's in the ToS.

Quote:

And seriously... FB has >>>NO RIGHT<<< to access either my birth certificate nor my driver's license without my consent.

They can ask nicely... I can refuse... they can close my account if I don't provide information they request.

They're not allowed to VERIFY my information without my consent, and I'm not granting it.

More hyperbole?

Jopsy Pendragon · 05-22-2011, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Oh god Yahoo's the next Facebook and they hate virtual avatards.

Yahoo isn't 'the next' anything.

Jopsy Pendragon · 05-22-2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Disdain for people who use Facebook? Um, I use Facebook. Are you even paying attention?

We're not getting into this esoteric discussion. It's irrelevant. Identity is defined by Facebook in their terms of service. If your identity does not match that definition, it has no relevance to anything else. This is not wishy-washy woulds and shoulds and coulds, it's in the ToS.

More hyperbole?

1) Whatever. Disdain for people who complain about FB and continue to use it then.

2) It is relevant. Proof of Identity as far as FB is concerned is a matter of having people attest that we are who we say we are. I understand and sort-of respect their desire to have one account per physical body... but the matter of what constitutes a "real name" has a lot of gray area in it.

3) And no, it's not hyperbole. I seriously would do just that if FB and government records suddenly became transparent to each other without court-ordered subpoenas.

**Joshua Nightshade** · 05-22-2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jopsy Pendragon

1) Whatever. Disdain for people who complain about FB and continue to use it then.

So, no, you aren't paying attention. My "disdain" is for people who disregard the fact that Facebook is for real life identities — NOT Second Life, whether you identify under that name "more" or not — and then whine when their accounts are shut down because they violated the Terms of Service.

Jopsy Pendragon · 05-22-2011, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

So, no, you aren't paying attention. My "disdain" is for people who disregard the fact that Facebook is for real life identities — NOT Second Life, whether you identify under that name "more" or not — and then whine when their accounts are shut down because they violated the Terms of Service.

Terms of service clarification:

Represent the real you. - Facebook Help Center | Facebook

Quote:

About Facebook's security and warning systems
Represent the real you.
To promote authentic connections and help your friends find you on the site, Facebook requires that everyone sign up using their real names. Nicknames are allowed as long as they are a variation of your real name. If you are known by more than one name, you can fill out your alternate name on the Account Settings page.

Since Jopsy is a variation of my birth-name, it's legit for facebook. If they nuke me I can appeal and probably get it reversed. Jopsy also happens to be my SL name, but that's irrelevant.

Like I said, identity is more than an exact character by character match to some official government record.

**Mabb Dilweg** · 05-22-2011, 01:21 AM

I wonder what the criteria was... I have a couple of avatars on my friends list and none of those were purged...

05-22-2011, 01:21 AM	#200 (permalink)
Mabb Dilweg HenchGirl *SLU Supporter* Mad Scientist Devotee Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,539 My Mood: SL Join Date: June 2006 Business: Mabbulosity Client: Exodus Blog Entries: 4	I wonder what the criteria was... I have a couple of avatars on my friends list and none of those were purged... __________________ The Roar of the Lions' Coming Together will echo around the World. The Glory of Their Union will Light up the Firmament; And as the Faithful rejoice, those who did not Believe shall be stricken, and burn in the Fires of Envy. The Book of Awesome, Revelations 7:18

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05-21-2011, 07:08 PM	#178 (permalink)
Ciaran Laval Senior Member Confused Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: England Posts: 2,909	The elephant in the room on Facebook is that the minimum age is thirteen, thirteen year olds are not in a position to agree to sharing the information Facebook insists you must share. I'm not quite sure how they get away with this.

05-21-2011, 08:33 PM	#182 (permalink)
Da5id Weatherwax Senior Member I have no status Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 877 Business: No Escape Client: Nirans or development daily build	My FB is RL only. It contains my full resume, links only to people I know IRL and only to groups that are part of my RL. Same info as can be found on my linkedIn profile if you know who I am. No SL on MY FB. If I want to comment on techcrunch then I suspect my comments will be given more weight if they are coming from the RL geek with 25+ years experience in the biz than from the fictional borg. Same for slashdot, kos, groklaw, etc.... SLU however has my "real" SL identity and my track record here is predicated on only my SL activities. folks that I know in both worlds and trust sometimes know both. MN has pretty good "stalker laws" that could apply just in case any of them do prove unworthy of that trust too.

05-21-2011, 10:08 PM	#184 (permalink)
Penny Patton Moo. Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Here and there. Kinda inbetween places now. Posts: 3,684 My Mood: SL Join Date: 11/30/2005 Business: Happy Bivouac/Milk&Cream	Oh, good. I wasn't the only one who saw that.

05-22-2011, 12:02 AM	#193 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Lustful Cockmonster *SLU Supporter* Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 51,807 My Mood: SL Join Date: October 2004 Blog Entries: 1	Oh god Yahoo's the next Facebook and they hate virtual avatards.

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