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Old 03-12-2011, 02:04 AM   #2976 (permalink)
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Old 03-12-2011, 03:54 AM   #2977 (permalink)
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The Hydra: Privacy Problems Expand as Linden Lab Play Catch-up - Search Engine Watch (SEW)

Only solution i see is let the spyware crap be sold and buyers get banned for being undesirables with a need to consult with a shrink. Same with griefer crap.
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Old 03-12-2011, 04:35 AM   #2978 (permalink)
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One would probably need to explore the finer nuances of 'Fair Use', but it might be worth considering a case of violation of copyright for the use of profile pictures.

If you made the image yourself, then you retain automatic copyright on it, even if you publish it.

I'm not sure to what extent the concept of Fair Use would cover the systematic collection, storage and distribution of copyright images for financial gain.

To file a DMCA, you'd need to be the copyright holder of the image, and you would need evidence that it was being used in violation of that copyright.

I know if I had made my own profile image, and saw it was being distributed in tables of data and on 'character cards', I would seriously consider that route.
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Old 03-12-2011, 04:51 AM   #2979 (permalink)
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Old 03-12-2011, 04:57 AM   #2980 (permalink)
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See, I used to do tech support and some ways of "being funny" are completely lost on me because I've had to deal with people that were *seriously* that daft.

Anyway, since the topic of beer and Canada have come up:

YouTube - Great White North - Topic : Great White North
Since the topic of beer came up:

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Old 03-12-2011, 05:04 AM   #2981 (permalink)
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you could start with the two that are planted right NEXT to Avatar Bizarre set so that the 96 m kill range encompasses the entire store driving the owner of that store nuts. There is no reason they would have been placed there other then so they could scan Avatar Bizarre without the need for drones...
The ***** that is there screwing with Sredni's store is really really pissing me off.

I thought they got pulled, finally- Sredni posted they were gone the other day.

Are they BACK?

ETA: NM, this got answered a page and a half back. Im awake now. Sort of.

Last edited by bronxelf; 03-12-2011 at 05:16 AM. Reason: Im caught up now.
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Old 03-12-2011, 05:30 AM   #2982 (permalink)
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The problem with a "did you know . . . " kind of message is that is sounds an awful lot like those web sites that tell you that your computer is infected, and the only way to save it is to buy their anti-virus software for $59.99. I'm afraid a message like that would just panic people, or have them dump the prim as quickly as possible.
I really don't see the point in providing people with something to carry around with them.

1. The aim surely is to educate people as to the tools at their disposal: the Media Filter & disabling Media.

2. What is easier, trooping around the Grid with a HUD, or taking required actions to mitigate the problem? Run with the Filter /disable media, problems solved.

3. HUDs aren't going to be able to counter every single new twist and turns some self-proclaimed genius thinks up out there, so you run the risk of hitting a maintenance /update requirement if someone manages to get very clever.

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I just had an idea. Something along the same lines as Fart Admiral's test pad but like in a rug or something they have to walk across when leaving the LP to trigger it.
Something like this would work better than, say MoaP (given that currently, the majority of users still are not using Viewer 2, so that solution risks missing a large swathe of the population who might be oblivious to the issue as they can't see MoaP.

If it could be developed, and passed to store owners with a request they put in in the greeting area of their stores / sims (a invisible phantom prim "ring" surrounding the LP that triggers the check as someone walks through it?) & which, if the check reveals a person to be vulnerable, kicks out a "nested" Notecard given instructions on how to fix things.

The check does need to be non-alarmist, and the Notecard concise.

My view is still that things need to be as low-key and as simple as possible, and as passive as possible. HUDs require people to be pro-active (and people are lazy - and a HUD might send out the message to skiddies as being something that needs to be "defeated" and worked-around.

Scylla, no idea if you've been inworld, but I forwarded the nested Notecard idea to you a couple of days go. It's been slightly revised since then, but the version you have is still relevant.
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Old 03-12-2011, 05:51 AM   #2983 (permalink)
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I think you guys are thinking too technical with your ideas on how to show people they are vulnerable.

Forget php scripts, IM's and all the RZ like stuff.

All you need is to set the land media texture to an existing texture in the parcel. Someone with media off sees the intended texture and someone exposed sees a webpage saying "WARNING....."

You could even make a sign like that and when they click it they get a notecard. You just need to force the url to the html page on everyone who enters the parcel and thats it. No James Bond stuff there and it's a static webpage.
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Old 03-12-2011, 05:59 AM   #2984 (permalink)
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I think you guys are thinking too technical with your ideas on how to show people they are vulnerable.

Forget php scripts, IM's and all the RZ like stuff.

All you need is to set the land media texture to an existing texture in the parcel. Someone with media off sees the intended texture and someone exposed sees a webpage saying "WARNING....."

You could even make a sign like that and when they click it they get a notecard. You just need to force the url to the html page on everyone who enters the parcel and thats it. No James Bond stuff there and it's a static webpage.
I'm all for the simplest solution. Notecards work. At a push, a webpage would work - but where is it to be hosted?

Setting media requires store owners to move away from their preferred music channel (those that have one), no? Might encounter resistance.

No single way is going to cover all the bases. Perhaps a little shopping basket of *low tech* solutions that can be offered to sim / store owners? Let them decide what they'd like?

As long as the message is consistent - does the delivery mechanism matter?
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:03 AM   #2985 (permalink)
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I'm all for the simplest solution. Notecards work. At a push, a webpage would work - but where is it to be hosted?

Setting media requires store owners to move away from their preferred music channel (those that have one), no? Might encounter resistance.

No single way is going to cover all the bases. Perhaps a little shopping basket of *low tech* solutions that can be offered to sim / store owners? Let them decide what they'd like?

As long as the message is consistent - does the delivery mechanism matter?
I haven't tried it but a webserver script might even be enough for a simple plain text message and a sign could self host itself.

It won't effect music streams at all because it's agent targeted media not audio.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:07 AM   #2986 (permalink)
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I haven't tried it but a webserver script might even be enough for a simple plain text message and a sign could self host itself.

It won't effect music streams at all because it's agent targeted media not audio.
Thanks... I'm not entirely up on all the nuances of media.

Sign hosting itself? As in MoaP?
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:10 AM   #2987 (permalink)
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You could use flickr i think to post your image warning and put that link in your Land media.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:11 AM   #2988 (permalink)
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Thanks... I'm not entirely up on all the nuances of media.

Sign hosting itself? As in MoaP?
There is a function in LSL that creates a http server within an object. It's only simple but you should be able to display plain text with it.

Then you just use the same agent targeted methods as redzone to force the persons viewer to display it on the sign.

It could say something like "WARNING! If you can see this you are vulnerable to... For more info please click here for a notecard" or something like that.

EDIT: It won't be as pretty as a proper html page but it will solve your hosting problem.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:17 AM   #2989 (permalink)
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There is a function in LSL that creates a http server within an object. It's only simple but you should be able to display plain text with it.

Then you just use the same agent targeted methods as redzone to force the persons viewer to display it on the sign.

It could say something like "WARNING! If you can see this you are vulnerable to... For more info please click here for a notecard" or something like that.

EDIT: It won't be as pretty as a proper html page but it will solve your hosting problem.
OK. Sounds to me like it would work.

I'm all for keeping things in-world, as it tends to encourage people to look and think. While not everyone reads notecards, there is potential for a lot of people to simply bypass anything that requires an actual web page to be viewed (either within the Viewer browser or their primary browser) simply because it takes them "out" of SL.

Think we really do need to the KISS principle, and this sounds like it does .
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:20 AM   #2990 (permalink)
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OK. Sounds to me like it would work.

I'm all for keeping things in-world, as it tends to encourage people to look and think. While not everyone reads notecards, there is potential for a lot of people to simply bypass anything that requires an actual web page to be viewed (either within the Viewer browser or their primary browser) simply because it takes them "out" of SL.

Think we really do need to the KISS principle, and this sounds like it does .
Well, it's still a webpage to the viewer. But if someone is going to bypass it they don't really need to see it in the first place.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:29 AM   #2991 (permalink)
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I started on another more detailed reply about this vulnerability-test kiosk thing, but a few quick things now that it seems to be topical:

It is definitely possible to use an http-in script to do all the processing; I demo'd that like a month ago on the old blogorums.

The main hang-up I'm having right now is that, however it's done, it's going to pose a URL to anybody already running a media-filter enabled viewer. Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing, as part of an education campaign, but it will (as I think it was Sione pointed out much earlier) generate a "buzz" in forums, blogs, and everywhere. If we do this thing, we gotta make damn sure it's a *positive* buzz.

And that suggest to me that the thing simply can't be passive. And *that's* a problem for testing what will surely be the next targets in this whack-a-mole: Audio streams and MoaP, because audio streams will be present on the whole parcel, and MoaP leaks all the hell all over when active.

Also, a question about the viewer media filters, and what specifically gets white- / blacklisted: an unsecured in-world script gets a URL that looks like this:

http://sim9839.agni.lindenlab.com:12...0-24abbf0b37ff

If a user approves that in a filter, how much is approved? Is it the domain name part (which corresponds to the sim), or is it specific to the entire URL? If specific, is it specific also to any parameters passed in the URL? (Sorry for needing this basic info; obviously I just haven't been paying close enough attention.)

Last edited by Qie Niangao; 03-12-2011 at 06:32 AM. Reason: changed URL to something bogus, when I noticed the damned thing was clickable and my dopey script actually reported my IP!
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:30 AM   #2992 (permalink)
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I haven't tried it but a webserver script might even be enough for a simple plain text message and a sign could self host itself.

It won't effect music streams at all because it's agent targeted media not audio.
The agent-targeted media is the one that gives the databases an unmistakable avatar-IP pair (short of some clever interception by a tiny minority).
It's the most obvious vulnerability until Viewer.2 tech and MoaP becomes the norm.

Parcels hosting a test device would set their own parcel media as normal. The device would simply direct a special stream temporarily at the avatar and restore the normal parcel media for that avatar after the test.

I'm not keen on active tests that chat or IM the avatar uninvited. How many times do we see complaints about store greeters?

I would be in favour of an easily distributed sign that gives notecards and/or does a test on request.
I would resist any temptation to have something backed by a database to record who has requsted/tested what.

A unit that is simple, mod and opensource would be best I think.
That leaves no room for suggestions that the things are secretly collecting data.
It has to be as transparent ( duh!) and squeaky clean as possible.

The suggestion of simple MoaP signs is excellent. People only see 'that' version of the sign if they are open. The display tells them they are seeing it because they are potentially open to intrusion. It invites them to click for more information.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:36 AM   #2993 (permalink)
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There is a function in LSL that creates a http server within an object. It's only simple but you should be able to display plain text with it.

Then you just use the same agent targeted methods as redzone to force the persons viewer to display it on the sign.

It could say something like "WARNING! If you can see this you are vulnerable to... For more info please click here for a notecard" or something like that.

EDIT: It won't be as pretty as a proper html page but it will solve your hosting problem.

if it can be triggered on touch then it sounds like the way to go. my only concern is that if it's distributed as open source then you can guarantee the pond life will hijack it
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:41 AM   #2994 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Qie Niangao View Post
I started on another more detailed reply about this vulnerability-test kiosk thing, but a few quick things now that it seems to be topical:

It is definitely possible to use an http-in script to do all the processing; I demo'd that like a month ago on the old blogorums.

The main hang-up I'm having right now is that, however it's done, it's going to pose a URL to anybody already running a media-filter enabled viewer. Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing, as part of an education campaign, but it will (as I think it was Sione pointed out much earlier) generate a "buzz" in forums, blogs, and everywhere. If we do this thing, we gotta make damn sure it's a *positive* buzz.

And that suggest to me that the thing simply can't be passive. And *that's* a problem for testing what will surely be the next targets in this whack-a-mole: Audio streams and MoaP, because audio streams will be present on the whole parcel, and MoaP leaks all the hell all over when active.

Also, a question about the viewer media filters, and what specifically gets white- / blacklisted: an unsecured in-world script gets a URL that looks like this:

http://sim9839.agni.lindenlab.com:.....

If a user approves that in a filter, how much is approved? Is it the domain name part (which corresponds to the sim), or is it specific to the entire URL? If specific, is it specific also to any parameters passed in the URL? (Sorry for needing this basic info; obviously I just haven't been paying close enough attention.)
Don't worry about basic info. Ashamed to say that I've been around SL over 4 years continuously, and a lot of the technical stuff is still a closed book to me; I know the basics of scripting for things like doors, lights, etc., but beyond that "?" - so I consider everything here educational. Just hope dumb questions don't rile people.

All I'm trying to bring to the table *is* the "naive" user's reaction to things. We cannot hope to cover all the bases. People can and will miss the point - they'll simply click away whatever comes up.

Popping up a URL does bother me - for the reasons you and Sione define; it's got to be seen as a "positive" (for want of a better word) "intervention" into people's lives. Then again, Notecards can be as easily ignored with a click as anything else.

The whack-a-mole approach also bothers me; but dealing with things more widely is obviously going to require some willingness from LL to get involved in the broader issues. As such, it's probably best left to a separate discussion.

Otherwise, the first step in eduction, and possibly the easiest, is to agree a common set of Notecards, distribute those through Groups where we can, and contact store / sim owners and request they put out Notices to their clients containing the "top" / "master", whatever you want to call it, Notecard.

If people are willing to follow-through, this could hit a large percentage of the population. Granted, not everyone will read it; some will get duplicates - but it's a one-time "hit" as it were.

Last edited by Inara Pey; 03-12-2011 at 06:43 AM. Reason: Edited in light of Qie's discovery in his original message
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:43 AM   #2995 (permalink)
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Also, a question about the viewer media filters, and what specifically gets white- / blacklisted: an unsecured in-world script gets a URL that looks like this:

http://sim9839.agni.lindenlab.com:12...0-24abbf0b37ff

If a user approves that in a filter, how much is approved? Is it the domain name part (which corresponds to the sim), or is it specific to the entire URL? If specific, is it specific also to any parameters passed in the URL? (Sorry for needing this basic info; obviously I just haven't been paying close enough attention.)
sim9839.agni.lindenlab.com
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:44 AM   #2996 (permalink)
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if it can be triggered on touch then it sounds like the way to go. my only concern is that if it's distributed as open source then you can guarantee the pond life will hijack it
I thought about that a bit. If it's open source and anybody can take a copy, the diligent can compare the source to a reference to make sure it's legit; nobody would do that a priori, but it means bogus installations would be apparent if examined.

That does raise the issue of licensing. I'm thinking that GPL isn't quite right. We really need a "no derivs" license, I think. (Although I've certainly not thought this through enough to be sure about that.)
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:45 AM   #2997 (permalink)
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The biggest issue is raise awareness of the openness to data harvesting.

Just get people aware of the media filters - why they exist and how to use them.
Things don't really need to be more clever than that.

A demonstration of the process involved would be useful to reinforce the message.

The primary objective has to be to get the basic information in front of maximum eyeballs in all languages.

Community 'thought leaders' ( Aaaaaaaagggh! I just said ...that ) and bloggers with high profiles in various languages would be helpful.
Getting singage out in newbie areas would be good.
Getting signage out in high-traffic places would be good.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:46 AM   #2998 (permalink)
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sim9839.agni.lindenlab.com
Oops!
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:53 AM   #2999 (permalink)
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The biggest issue is raise awareness of the openness to data harvesting.

Just get people aware of the media filters - why they exist and how to use them.
Things don't really need to be more clever than that.
Notecards written. Nested set: 1 overview; 1 each on Media Filter and disabling Media contained within overview card. Simple screen shots also included.

Require translation if they are to be used / widely used.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:57 AM   #3000 (permalink)
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Oops!
Kinda. I mean, it's a perfectly sensible approach, but problematic for a couple of reasons.

Longer term, one might wish for a "block all in-world media sources" ability. That would totally kill some very nice MoaP-y things, but I think they're pretty much doomed anyway. (Which is actually how I got sucked into this; I had such plans. *sigh*)

And for our current explorations: If one accepts a URL from a test kiosk, it means accepting any URLs originating from the sim. That would be an open invitation to any neighbors of such a kiosk to install alt-data-harvesting devices modelled after the latter version of the Quickware crap.

Last edited by Qie Niangao; 03-12-2011 at 06:59 AM. Reason: clarification of what would be accepted from the sim
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The Glamourus Life of a Second Life Model: ✐ UPDATE This thread Refback 03-14-2011 04:50 PM
The SecondLife Technologist: Redzone more then just Alts This thread Refback 03-14-2011 12:25 AM
BDSM Institute - Second Life - Ban RedZone This thread Refback 03-13-2011 05:02 PM
Privacy War in SL *updated 3/13* Acoustic Alchemy in Second Life Post #3351 Pingback 03-13-2011 12:38 PM
Dusan Writer’s Metaverse Second Life Next: 2011 This thread Refback 03-13-2011 08:40 AM
UPDATED - zFire talking about sharing people's RL data and hacking SL passwords - MOOLTO This thread Refback 03-13-2011 08:39 AM
Dusan Writer’s Metaverse When Amazon Buys Linden Lab This thread Refback 03-12-2011 10:16 PM
Alleged Hacking of zFire Xue’s zF RedZone Website, iSell SL, Turned SLUniverse Into A Wild Frenzy | in2ndLife This thread Pingback 03-12-2011 07:36 PM
The SecondLife Technologist This thread Refback 03-12-2011 06:47 PM
RedZone database hacked? | Living in the Modem World This thread Pingback 03-12-2011 04:32 PM
Dusan Writer’s Metaverse Virtual Dialogues: My Conversation with Rod Humble, CEO of Linden Lab This thread Refback 03-12-2011 03:37 PM
The Hydra: Privacy Problems Expand as Linden Lab Play Catch-up - Search Engine Watch (SEW) This thread Refback 03-12-2011 03:46 AM
The Second Life Builder This thread Refback 03-11-2011 09:13 AM
bN Story Queue This thread Refback 03-10-2011 09:53 PM
Media Filter due in Phoenix this weekend | Living in the Modem World Post #1418 Pingback 03-10-2011 12:55 PM
SL Offworld Forum -> RedZone...dead? This thread Refback 03-10-2011 10:47 AM
Alleged zFire Video on Possible Hacking of SL Accounts | in2ndLife This thread Pingback 03-10-2011 07:06 AM
Why I’m pissed at RedZone | Living in the Modem World This thread Pingback 03-08-2011 01:39 PM