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Old 05-06-2011, 07:42 AM   #326 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da5id Weatherwax View Post
Hell it doesn't even turn shadows on by default on my main workstation with two 580s in SLI
SL won't touch more than one GPU, by the way. Your second graphics card is just using electricity.

I have two 260s, which aren't that great of a card (anymore), so only being able to use one is even worse.
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:29 PM   #327 (permalink)
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Sure, and there are people who actually like the Ribbon in the latest versions of Windows and Office.
And some who said "WTF" when they poked at the Office 2007 interface and went back to using OpenOffice
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:34 PM   #328 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beezle Warburton View Post
And some who said "WTF" when they poked at the Office 2007 interface and went back to using OpenOffice
I stick with raw HTML and "vi" myself, when I have a choice.
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Old 05-06-2011, 09:03 PM   #329 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Writer View Post
SL won't touch more than one GPU, by the way. Your second graphics card is just using electricity.

I have two 260s, which aren't that great of a card (anymore), so only being able to use one is even worse.
I know.. but it sure works nice on games that CAN handle it, and to be honest I tried disabling one and running some benchmarks.. the driver code distributes SOME of the load to the second, because I see a 25% load on the second card when its enabled and a marginal drop in SL framerate when its not.
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Old 05-07-2011, 05:44 AM   #330 (permalink)
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I stick with raw HTML and "vi" myself, when I have a choice.
Do you only eat bread and water too?
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Old 05-07-2011, 08:34 AM   #331 (permalink)
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Do you only eat bread and water too?
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:32 AM   #332 (permalink)
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Do you only eat bread and water too?
Not quite.

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Old 05-07-2011, 12:29 PM   #333 (permalink)
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Do you only eat bread and water too?
You underestimate the taste of transubstantiation.
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Old 05-07-2011, 01:35 PM   #334 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Writer View Post
The rat the cat the dog bit chased died.

Btw. Pie Menu Explanation. Please. Seriously.
Exterme tortured xmls and some shitacular coding on my part to solve a selfish bet with my boy friend. I bet I could make v2 look so much like 1.23 there was no difference on the surface. I will be recompiling shortly and rebranding it as it still says nebula life on all the windows. Keeping up with new releases and updating is a pain since you have to edit many many files to make it work. Even then it was more a head ache than anything and many hours of work. But I got my 20 bucks from the bet and dinner :3

I do suggest starting with star light though as star light already made vast improvements to the usability of the v2 UI and got some of the work of making it look more similar to 1.* out of the way. Oh and I am pretty sure it is against the TPV to use code from someone who has been perma banned, or something like it cannot be listed. Fred said that at some point in a thread. I would apply, but then I would have to maintain my code and I really want to go back to my drop down style menus as I like the 2.* UI better. Anyway I will see if I can dig up some pretty screen shots and such for you later. I am working on getting the script usage windows to show still as they are hopelessly broken in my current build along with my auto code complete. (something went wrong ever since I started using the newer versions of VS).

editing to answer more stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Writer View Post
Argh, Not what I meant. XD

Is there a 2.x codebase that has the pie menu?
That would single-handedly be the best thing ever. I could use v2 again.

(Also, try the new mesh viewer. Despite having the new interface, it's a very high-performance viewer. I can enable all the nice stuff like dynamic shadows and depth of field yet get the same frame rate the previous version got with them OFF and that is an accomplishment. DaveP or SOMEONE is working magic up in there.)
No there isn't a code base, I pretty much had to shove it back in myself. I am contemplating doing what hazim did and just shoving my shit heap onto git hub and letting people pick at my source. The only reason I haven't is because, I don't want phoenix touching it.
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Old 05-07-2011, 04:35 PM   #335 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Stonecutter View Post
I stick with raw HTML and "vi" myself, when I have a choice.
and tex when you want to publish it too, I bet

You any good running a punchcard reader? I've thrown a few stacks myself but there aint many of us left in the biz that have...
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Old 05-07-2011, 05:34 PM   #336 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Da5id Weatherwax View Post
and tex when you want to publish it too, I bet
Hell no. I like raw HTML because it's easier than Word, not because I'm a masochist. TeX is for people who actually like debugging obscure error messages.
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:17 AM   #337 (permalink)
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They have been trying since the end of April to merge the "Mesh" code into the mainline Snowstorm. It appears it finally worked:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1210

Quote:
Runitai Linden added a comment - 16/May/11 2:16 PM - edited
mesh-candidate-storm-1210 merged with viewer-development at 2PM and builds cleanly on teamcity
Note that the "Mesh" project includes more than just adding 3D models. It includes "SSE2" functions, which are CPU functions that handle complex math. This should speed up the viewer. The downside is very old CPUs (before Pentium 4) which do not have the SSE2 instructions will no longer work for SL. We are talking 11 year old CPUs at this point, so not may people should be using them. A speed up for everyone else should be a net gain.

It also includes "deferred rendering" ( Real-Time Rendering Deferred lighting approaches ). In simplistic rendering, you look at each point in the scene, add up the lighting contribution from all the light sources, and then display the result. In deferred rendering, you first determine what areas a light source affects. Areas too far away or in shadow from that light can be skipped. Then you only add up the lighting contribution for the parts of the scene that need that light. Shadows are automatically generated as part of this technique.

Keeping track of what parts of the scene need which light source, and processing all the lights in parallel so it does not take too long means a graphics card with more memory and more shader pipelines. This is why the technique has only been used in the last few years in graphics engines. People with more modern cards will see a speedup from deferred rendering. People with older cards will see no change.

In the future the general "deferred rendering" technique will allow more accurate display of how things look. The current SL graphics engine only stores the color of a surface as a texture, and uses generic values for specular sharpness (shiny), glow, and other values. By adding more deferred pipelines you can use additional surface maps (normal, bump, specular, glow, etc.) and calculate their total effect in parallel with the light sources, then combine the results to the final image. Things will look more realistic as a result. The "Mesh" project only adds the lighting pipelines, but it sets the stage for the other graphics improvements.

To recap the next steps:

- Upload and prim costs need to be finished. Upload is how much a model will cost you to upload. Prim is how many prims a model will count towards parcel limit (they don't have to be the same values). They are trying to base those on the actual load the models impose on the servers and viewers, which requires testing lots of models. Actually adjusting the formulas in the code to the final values is not much work (the formulas are already there, with default values).

- The viewer and server code will be updated to the main grid but with mesh functions disabled, to make sure it does not break other things. Assuming there is no breakage, or after they fix things if there is, then they can "throw the big switch" by removing the blocking code and enable the mesh parts of the code to go live.
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:25 AM   #338 (permalink)
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So we are going to be seeing viewer 2.7 soon. At the rate at which they are churning through viewer revisions it wouldn't surprise me if we see viewer 3 by the end of the year. In XP to Vista to 7 style.
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:50 AM   #339 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sione View Post
So we are going to be seeing viewer 2.7 soon. At the rate at which they are churning through viewer revisions it wouldn't surprise me if we see viewer 3 by the end of the year. In XP to Vista to 7 style.
The dot in a version number is not a decimal, its a subversion separator. After 2.6, 2.7, 2.8, and 2.9, the next is 2.10 and 2.11. Viewer 3 doesn't come until they increment the major version number, which is "Whenever they dang well feel like it."

That said, great to see the merge worked. I'm positive mesh will be on the main viewer line (but probably not main grid) by the end of the month.

And deferred rendering is indeed faster on my machine. It's crazy to think I can get faster fps with shadows on than older viewers do without shadows, but it's happening.
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:59 AM   #340 (permalink)
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- The viewer and server code will be updated to the main grid but with mesh functions disabled, to make sure it does not break other things. Assuming there is no breakage, or after they fix things if there is, then they can "throw the big switch" by removing the blocking code and enable the mesh parts of the code to go live.
The server part of this is supposed to happen tomorrow on BlueSteel. Some things that rely on the 10 cm physics gap could look funny, so it will be an interesting week.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:09 AM   #341 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Writer View Post
The dot in a version number is not a decimal, its a subversion separator. After 2.6, 2.7, 2.8, and 2.9, the next is 2.10 and 2.11. Viewer 3 doesn't come until they increment the major version number, which is "Whenever they dang well feel like it."
Oh yeah I forgot about that. Although if I was LL I would be taking a leaf out of Microsoft's book and see Viewer 2 as my Vista, Viewer 1 as XP and be getting ready to do some serious "what the user wants" work to wow everyone with a new major version. Because as long as it is viewer 2, well it's viewer 2 and no matter how good it becomes, it will always be negative to quite a few people.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:20 AM   #342 (permalink)
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That's a very good point. I've heard "I'll just wait for viewer 3" more than once. If a number is all it takes to get people to use a viewer, heck, fix the bugs, and go with it.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:21 AM   #343 (permalink)
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Oh yeah I forgot about that. Although if I was LL I would be taking a leaf out of Microsoft's book and see Viewer 2 as my Vista, Viewer 1 as XP and be getting ready to do some serious "what the user wants" work to wow everyone with a new major version. Because as long as it is viewer 2, well it's viewer 2 and no matter how good it becomes, it will always be negative to quite a few people.
I hope they don't take your advice too literally. Windows Seven deliberately crippled the classic theme, so you have to go to third-party software to eliminate some of the excesses of the new user interface.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:25 AM   #344 (permalink)
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I hope they don't take your advice too literally. Windows Seven deliberately crippled the classic theme, so you have to go to third-party software to eliminate some of the excesses of the new user interface.
I think in LL's case that damage has already been done plus some, with their Vista.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:26 AM   #345 (permalink)
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It also includes "deferred rendering"
Deferred rendering has been in the mainline viewer since late 2009. Making it part of the "Ultra" preset is a UI change, nothing more.

Quote:
Upload and prim costs need to be finished.
That's what they said 8 months ago. Will they ever actually do it?
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:39 AM   #346 (permalink)
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Deferred rendering has been in the mainline viewer since late 2009. Making it part of the "Ultra" preset is a UI change, nothing more.
Not quite. While it's true that the alternate pipeline has been available for quite some time, what's actually in the pipe has changed many times over, and only until recently it has always been a horrible FPS hit. However, in recent builds, on decent computers, it barely touches fps at all.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:40 AM   #347 (permalink)
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Looks like my days of SL night club's and general Social fun is slowly coming to an end. Viewer 2 lags badly in clubs i get about 9fps and while my poor video card is struggling and overheating.

Where as on the viewer 1 i get 45fps with every thing on max. 20 to 30 people with 3000+ render cost each. Some thing is definitely wrong with how viewer 2 renders things I hope they can make it like viewer 1 soon I cant really afford the next level up in PC performance just yet. That would be an i7 + GTX580 and a jaw dropping power bill.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:42 AM   #348 (permalink)
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Just tried the merged developer build and logged into main grid, and I have to say I'm very impressed. FPS was quite decent with graphics set high (AO, shadows, DOF etc). I had put off modeling mesh for a bit, but this encourages me to keep making the odd piece even if it is some time before mesh hits the main grid.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:00 AM   #349 (permalink)
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Just tried the merged developer build and logged into main grid, and I have to say I'm very impressed. FPS was quite decent with graphics set high (AO, shadows, DOF etc). I had put off modeling mesh for a bit, but this encourages me to keep making the odd piece even if it is some time before mesh hits the main grid.
What is the url to the page for this merged build?
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:57 AM   #350 (permalink)
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What is the url to the page for this merged build?
I'd link it if iPhone could po

Edit: ... I hate iPhone so much.

http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/snowstorm_viewer-development/rev/229989/index.html

I think this is it. Someone double-check me please.

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