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Couldbe Yue · 02-15-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

You see, the whole problem leds waaaay back.. And since LL doesn't do much or cannot do much in a lot of cases to catch and ban the copybotter, we designers try to protect us the best we can.

speak for yourself hun. When you grow up you might get some perspective. No one in here is so special that they have the right to trample over the rights of others and try to hide the fact to boot.

I'd have more respect for the so called designers who use this if they came out and admitted it. Even shops in rl with guards, cctv etc have signs up but not sl ohhhh noooo can't have honesty can we? You poor sweet things, since sl is so stressful I'd suggest you stay out of it. This is the bad end of town alright but you guys just make it worse.

Walker · 02-15-2011, 05:16 PM

This forum needs to stop allowing free anonymous accounts!

Free Xue · 02-15-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker

This forum needs to stop allowing free anonymous accounts!

**Psyke Phaeton** · 02-15-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker

This forum needs to stop allowing free anonymous accounts!

I agree. The economy of SLU is even worse than the USA!! Without anonymity we could be as productive and wealthy as Avination!!

Sione · 02-15-2011, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

hey! I was trying to help get this person get banned from his rZ...
Don't shoot the messenger...

When you use the hud... it gives this message: Do not use the zRZ HUD to pester people. Report zRZ Abuse at: iSell SL .com

Most people here can't do that. Their hosts files and firewalls won't let them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

When you use the hud... it gives this message: Do not use the zRZ HUD to pester people. Report zRZ Abuse at: iSell SL .com

Napster said "don't use this software for illegal filesharing"

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

But I still think its not the fault of the creator of this tool (every scrip kiddy can create this privately without you knowing).

Yes but they can't mass deploy it around the grid without scamming people

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

The problem is at first the way the internet in whole works, then the rules of LL and how they implement it and how their viewer works...

And yes, I KNOW you want to see it different because its more convenient for the most of the rZ-haters, but it is a security device first...

If you say so

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

I just counted for that the last month KNOWN 26 copybot and/or griefers where trying to come on my sim. And got kicked out.

So you think. I don't think I need to reiterate the shortfalls of IP address linking. I think you know that already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

There are a few thing LL never should have done:

- Allow Free anonymous alt;
- Never should have give its viewer opensource.

The first point one I agree with the second is just laughable. Copybot was around before the viewer was opensourced. Ever heard of libsl (now libomv)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

......

Tell us something we don't know. As much as the RZ community don't want to believe, the people here are quite intelligent and most are content creators or viewer developers. If RZ is so wonderful for content creators why are there so many content creators opposed to it.

**Psyke Phaeton** · 02-15-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker

This forum needs to stop allowing free anonymous accounts!

We also need display names!!

Sextan Shepherd · 02-15-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

I just see both sides and try to manage with the tools I can get to protect my hard work.

The only right way to protect your hard work () is to be really creative and found out a unique design, so copying it will be like puting a red flashing light over the copy.

I hope it's not the drastic drop in your sales that will tell you who was wrong or right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

I just counted for that the last month KNOWN 26 copybot and/or griefers where trying to come on my sim. And got kicked out

Oh.. you seem to trust everything you are told, even if it's a script that tell it to you, then listen to this : I AM ROD HUMBLE! give me your stuff! ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

There are a few thing LL never should have done:

- Allow Free anonymous alt;

And what do you think you have done logging on slu without using your SLName?

Walker · 02-15-2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyke Phaeton

We also need display names!!

I'm an SLU Display Names beta tester. Cris let me drop my surname a couple of years ago.

Sugar · 02-15-2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

hey! I was trying to help get this person get banned from his rZ...
Don't shoot the messenger...

When you use the hud... it gives this message: Do not use the zRZ HUD to pester people. Report zRZ Abuse at: iSell SL .com

Do with it what you want... I ment well...

And yes, I do not agree with most of you, but I CAN understand...
But I still think its not the fault of the creator of this tool (every scrip kiddy can create this privately without you knowing).

The problem is at first the way the internet in whole works, then the rules of LL and how they implement it and how their viewer works...

And yes, I KNOW you want to see it different because its more convenient for the most of the rZ-haters, but it is a security device first...

I just counted for that the last month KNOWN 26 copybot and/or griefers where trying to come on my sim. And got kicked out.

There are a few thing LL never should have done:

- Allow Free anonymous alt;
- Never should have give its viewer opensource.

Then we would never got copybotters and so much griefers..

Most say LL is in violation with his own TOS. Personally I don't agree, but again I DO understand why some disagree with me on this.

Understand that when I came to SL as designer LL promised me in the TOS copyright and protection of theft. But they just changed that when the made the viewer opensource. Because copybotter where very hard to catch due the FREE alt accounts...

You see, the whole problem leds waaaay back.. And since LL doesn't do much or cannot do much in a lot of cases to catch and ban the copybotter, we designers try to protect us the best we can.

And yes.. rZ is not holy, it's not perfect, but believe it or not.. It helps...
The rate of 0.025 % seems little, but that is only the percentage the system itself caught. But the truth is, copybotters are getting smarter, spoofing ip's, spoofing mac-adresses, cloning viewer info. So on that moment NONE system can detect it, accept the human eye. And that is what we also share in this system. User take pictures of copybotters, and report them in our neighboorwatch. And if anybody find a better system which would make everybody happy, I would gladly drop rZ.

And its VERY sad some users abuse it... I am NOT one of them. I just try to protect what is mine, and I don't give a rats ass about somebodies alt... I really don't.

In a perfect SL world without griefers and copybotters I would have never used it.

You can bash me all I want... Again, I just wanted to help with my first post. I am not here to say, you are wrong and I am right... I just see both sides and try to manage with the tools I can get to protect my hard work.

OK whats teh differance of that person outing everyone... or everyone owning one of the huds? whoes to say other people at the sms didnt already know about peoples alts. and were.. just talking about them behind their back?

Micaela Darkwatch · 02-15-2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyke Phaeton

We also need display names!!

Couldbe Yue · 02-15-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyke Phaeton

I agree. The economy of SLU is even worse than the USA!! Without anonymity we could be as productive and wealthy as Avination!!

since that one came out of nowhere, I'll digress a little further and say I've just discovered one of my websites is more popular in the UK than avination and I'm moving up the ranks at a rate that soon I'm going to make a run on slu!

WolfEyes · 02-15-2011, 05:35 PM

*cough* https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/V...comment-242277 *cough*

**Samantha Poindexter** · 02-15-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

hey! I was trying to help get this person get banned from his rZ...

I'll give you this much. I think you're wrong about... well, everything... but I am willing to believe that your motivation for jumping into the lions' den here really was to let us know how to get the griefer in question banned from using RedZone. For that intention, I thank you.

That said, you're still wrong about everything.

Copybot existed before the viewer was open-sourced, griefers were rampant before unverified registrations were allowed, RedZone doesn't really protect you, and it hurts innocent people—both those it provides information about, and those who think it's a legitimate and useful protection tool.

**bronxelf** · 02-15-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

hey! I was trying to help get this person get banned from his rZ...
Don't shoot the messenger...

When you use the hud... it gives this message: Do not use the zRZ HUD to pester people. Report zRZ Abuse at: iSell SL .com

Do with it what you want... I ment well...

And yes, I do not agree with most of you, but I CAN understand...
But I still think its not the fault of the creator of this tool (every scrip kiddy can create this privately without you knowing).

The problem is at first the way the internet in whole works, then the rules of LL and how they implement it and how their viewer works...

And yes, I KNOW you want to see it different because its more convenient for the most of the rZ-haters, but it is a security device first...

I just counted for that the last month KNOWN 26 copybot and/or griefers where trying to come on my sim. And got kicked out.

There are a few thing LL never should have done:

- Allow Free anonymous alt;
- Never should have give its viewer opensource.

Then we would never got copybotters and so much griefers..

Most say LL is in violation with his own TOS. Personally I don't agree, but again I DO understand why some disagree with me on this.

Understand that when I came to SL as designer LL promised me in the TOS copyright and protection of theft. But they just changed that when the made the viewer opensource. Because copybotter where very hard to catch due the FREE alt accounts...

You see, the whole problem leds waaaay back.. And since LL doesn't do much or cannot do much in a lot of cases to catch and ban the copybotter, we designers try to protect us the best we can.

And yes.. rZ is not holy, it's not perfect, but believe it or not.. It helps...
The rate of 0.025 % seems little, but that is only the percentage the system itself caught. But the truth is, copybotters are getting smarter, spoofing ip's, spoofing mac-adresses, cloning viewer info. So on that moment NONE system can detect it, accept the human eye. And that is what we also share in this system. User take pictures of copybotters, and report them in our neighboorwatch. And if anybody find a better system which would make everybody happy, I would gladly drop rZ.

And its VERY sad some users abuse it... I am NOT one of them. I just try to protect what is mine, and I don't give a rats ass about somebodies alt... I really don't.

In a perfect SL world without griefers and copybotters I would have never used it.

You can bash me all I want... Again, I just wanted to help with my first post. I am not here to say, you are wrong and I am right... I just see both sides and try to manage with the tools I can get to protect my hard work.

Sweetieb... I'll use the most direct way possible:

This device *is not*, full stop, in any way shape or form protecting your work. It simply is not. .025% is statistically insignificant. You would have roughly the same probability as simply *wishing for copybot to stop*(dear statistics people, I know I'm insulting your math skills- please forgive me). People who are actually out to steal your work can, will and *are* doing it anyway. That's the plain truth of it. Please read this completely valid comment here: Fear and Loathing in the Redzone » Ciaran Laval

No one needs to be in your store, in *any way* to steal your work. This device is not helping you, and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you, whether by design or ignorance.

No one here wants to see anyone's work stolen. No one. But we can differentiate between something that works and something that not only *does not work*, but whose primary function is something completely different and fundamentally wrong on multiple levels.

Dickie Swansong · 02-15-2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Xue

At least no one's callin' you "weirdly shaped"

Marx Dudek · 02-15-2011, 05:59 PM

Right now, I'm looking at a satchel of "herbal incense" called Black Magic Smoke. On the front, it says "Not for human consumption". On the back, it says, "Warning: Do not smoke. Harmful or fatal if consumed contact physician immediately."

If you think this is anything other than a cover-your-ass wink and nod, you're terribly naïve. The same goes for your "do not harass" disclaimer on the rZ HUD. If this were meant seriously, zF would not boast of adding vocal critics to RZ's database as copybots. Intimidating someone into silence is - surprise! - harassment.

It seems, in my personal opinion, that those who would be best able to copybot with impunity would be those who control the database of something like RZ. Not to mention their friends. How great is that? Hundreds of thousands of linden dollars in profit AND no accountability under their own system. As Stalin said, it's not who votes that counts, but rather who counts the votes.

Vanish · 02-15-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

The rate of 0.025 % seems little, but that is only the percentage the system itself caught. But the truth is, copybotters are getting smarter, spoofing ip's, spoofing mac-adresses, cloning viewer info. So on that moment NONE system can detect it, accept the human eye. And that is what we also share in this system. User take pictures of copybotters, and report them in our neighboorwatch. And if anybody find a better system which would make everybody happy, I would gladly drop rZ.

Hm. Are you sure you're not zFire? You make as many typos as he does. And as little sense.

Free Xue · 02-15-2011, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick McMinnar

At least no one's callin' you "weirdly shaped"

Not that you know of...

Sione · 02-15-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

But the truth is, copybotters are getting smarter, spoofing ip's, spoofing mac-adresses, cloning viewer info.

Did you know this was normal before CDS and RedZone even existed?

Along with the fact you can just turn media off to avoid it, this is the biggest reason these systems are a scam. RZ owners NEED to know this. These techniques were not implemented to avoid RedZone and CDS. They were created to avoid LL.

Argent Stonecutter · 02-15-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetieb

There are a few thing LL never should have done:

- Allow Free anonymous alt;

Maybe. But completely irrelevant. Rippers don't need to use alts, because there is no way you can even tell if a ripper client is being run. They're completely undetectable unless the user is a complete idiot, and stopping only the complete idiots isn't going to help you.

Quote:

- Never should have give its viewer opensource.

100% wrong. If they had not done that, the content ripping problem would be worse, because people would be using clients based on the original testclient (more commonly known as copybot)... which came out BEFORE the open source project. If it wasn't for the third party viewer policies they wouldn't have any levers at all to convince people writing third party viewers to play nicely.

Open sourcing the client co-opted a lot of smart people into working with them instead of against them.

Ann Otoole · 02-15-2011, 06:20 PM

securing your privacy in SL also means you give up use of profiles, destination guide, search, and any web based functions LL is using to force it's customers into submitting to privacy invasion.

Jopsy Pendragon · 02-15-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meijoi

[...]
and when I told him it was a creepy and stalkerish thing to do, he said that it was his right to know.
[...]

The ability to do something does not confer the right to do it.

And because people are buying a 'legitimate' product that LETS them know, they automatically assume that it is their RIGHT to know.

Quote:

8.2 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights.

You agree that you will not:
(v) Post, display or transmit Content that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy;

8.3 You agree that you will not post or transmit Content or code that may be harmful, impede other users' functionality, invade other users' privacy, or surreptitiously or negatively impact any system or network.

You agree to respect both the integrity of the Service and the privacy of other users.

The Community Standards sets out six behaviors, the 'Big Six', that will result in suspension or, with repeated violations, expulsion from the Second Life Community.

Disclosure
Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about a fellow Resident --including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location beyond what is provided by the Resident in the First Life page of their Resident profile is a violation of that Resident's privacy.

In other words... if I don't list my alts in my profile, and that information is not otherwise readily available as PART OF the secondlife service, it is my PRIVATE information. Redzone is entitled to collect that information as a 3rd party entity... HOWEVER... the secondlife policies dictate they may not use the secondlife service to disseminate that information.

Personally, I'm of a mind to abuse report redzone citing their violation of our rights as defined by that policy.

Ann Otoole · 02-15-2011, 06:25 PM

And people were getting vocal about the privacy issue so Amanda closed comments on the improving lines of communication blog post.

Typical.

Rod Humble is the new Baghdad Bob.

**Psyke Phaeton** · 02-15-2011, 06:29 PM

Does GreenZone detect if you have media off?

**bronxelf** · 02-15-2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyke Phaeton

Does GreenZone detect if you have media off?

Yes.

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02-15-2011, 05:16 PM	#1427 (permalink)
Walker Senior Member *SLU Supporter* ... Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 15,774 Awards: 1	This forum needs to stop allowing free anonymous accounts!

02-15-2011, 05:35 PM	#1437 (permalink)
WolfEyes Abby Normal Always on the Outside... looking In Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Off the Rez Posts: 3,215 SL Join Date: April 2004	cough https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/V...comment-242277 cough

02-15-2011, 05:59 PM	#1441 (permalink)
Marx Dudek Mommy Made Me Commie Accept (no copy). Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA MAGNITED STATES OF AMERICA Posts: 956 My Mood: SL Join Date: December 2007 Business: Kerfuffle & Marx Mode Blog Entries: 1	Right now, I'm looking at a satchel of "herbal incense" called Black Magic Smoke. On the front, it says "Not for human consumption". On the back, it says, "Warning: Do not smoke. Harmful or fatal if consumed contact physician immediately." If you think this is anything other than a cover-your-ass wink and nod, you're terribly naïve. The same goes for your "do not harass" disclaimer on the rZ HUD. If this were meant seriously, zF would not boast of adding vocal critics to RZ's database as copybots. Intimidating someone into silence is - surprise! - harassment. It seems, in my personal opinion, that those who would be best able to copybot with impunity would be those who control the database of something like RZ. Not to mention their friends. How great is that? Hundreds of thousands of linden dollars in profit AND no accountability under their own system. As Stalin said, it's not who votes that counts, but rather who counts the votes.

02-15-2011, 06:20 PM	#1446 (permalink)
Ann Otoole Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 16,374	securing your privacy in SL also means you give up use of profiles, destination guide, search, and any web based functions LL is using to force it's customers into submitting to privacy invasion.

02-15-2011, 06:25 PM	#1448 (permalink)
Ann Otoole Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 16,374	And people were getting vocal about the privacy issue so Amanda closed comments on the improving lines of communication blog post. Typical. Rod Humble is the new Baghdad Bob.

02-15-2011, 06:29 PM	#1449 (permalink)
Psyke Phaeton Senior Member *SLU Supporter* Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 9,064 SL Join Date: 12-Oct-2003 Business: PDS HomeSecurity™ Orb - Security Orbs since 2004 Client: Viewer 3 Blog Entries: 4	Does GreenZone detect if you have media off?

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