eku Zhong

actually no, ppl banned via rz by the device owner only go to the land ban.. it isnt global.

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bronxelf

Then honestly, why would it be any better than just banning people normally via the land tools? I mean you have 500 ban slots. I am very liberal about using the banhammer on my sim, and I don't even have close to that many.

eku Zhong

all i wanted to say was that global bans come from rz not the landowner, thats all.
bans from the landowner include ppl with the same IP ..

bronxelf

Forgive me, Im *very* tired- Im off to bed in a couple minutes.

Let me get this straight. If the device owner does it, it's just an ordinary sim ban. If the lovely folks at RZ HQ do it, it's global? Do I have that correctly?

I'm trying to figure out how the global bans get propagated. I am sure this will make much more sense after I've slept.

*hugs Eku and goes to bed*

Elysium Hynes

Still everyone who enters the parcel get“s scanned and their ip logged.

From their FAQ:
"If someone has an alt that has never logged into SL, has never visited your area, and never visited any RedZone area,
it is impossible for that username to be detected if it has never been scanned. That is normal.
Knowing someone has alts, and the system not showing that they do, only means that alt has not meet the criteria to be linked.
When they do, then you will know. That way if you need to ban them, they cannot return with those alts.
If you ban them before the system knows, and they come back with an alt later, the system will see that.
zF RedZone will learn for you, add that name to your ban if they are an alt of a banned person,
and write the reason in the N-Watch for you to know who and why they where banned."

the N-Watch:

"...List your greifers here so The Neighbourhood Community can be aware of who they are!
This helps people like you, know who the greifers are, view reports & photo evidence then decide for yourself.
In this way we can Ban undesirable people from our sims even much of the grid, before the problem spreads.
This helps avoid griefers, creeps, cheaters, pedophiles, spammers and scammers too, by working as a community
with a collective knowledge of the good, bad, and the whose who."

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Sione

So those 72000ish banned people aren't duplicate IP's?

Sione

Actually I am starting to think "Banned People" actually means "Bans Issued" there is a huge difference there.

eku Zhong

haha no problem.. i am just as sleepy.. just because its cold.. not because its late...

and this is just what i know from having used it before.... and having read the NC (not recently ..just what i remember)

viewers identified as some kind of copybot viewer are banned globally...

there is also a setting (never tried it) that bans inidentified viewers.. this is local only though.. as are bans done by the device owner.


local bans go out to all rz owned by the person doing the banning.. so someone can be banned from several locations with one apply.

i am 90% sure thats right.. but when i go inworld i shall see if i still have the NC and if its wrong.. or if theres more.. i shall post.

Elysium Hynes

What hapens is that any RZ user can add any name to the neighourbood watch, some admit in the forums of adding people just because they complain to them about this system.
The owners of such systems have added names manually to these databases, they also have no liabilty for their use of them or are ruled by any actual privacy laws in a sense, when the CDS/Onix database was hacked, lots of people had their ip“s exposed and linked to their inworld names, for some it might not be much, while for others it is quite a security risk.

In the end these sort of grid wide ban systems are always prone to abuse, but at least LL needs to follow proper rules and is liable for any sort of data leak.

Sione

So basically if someone goes afk in a store or are less than a month old have no payment info on file and the paranoid owner thinks they are copybotting and bans them, they get a multi parcel ban.

Thats fuckin awesome for new user retention.

eku Zhong

I absolutely agree... especially since recently theres been a lot of ghosted avatars.. even the eject and ban is really stupid to use.

Elysium Hynes

In their Forums a user that was banned from a parcel by using RZ added the owners name to the banned list, and acording to his words,

"...But I did add his name to about 1200 more sims ban list. Now working on the next system I'm an admin on. He'll loose 1/4 of the grid, LOL."

This is the kind of banning we are talking about.I personally would kick anyone with this system if their where in my land using it because yes they can do that, it“s mobile.

Walker

iSellSL.ath.cx/MadSci View topic - I was banned for owning redzone [Anonymoused]

Hilarious. I can identify more content creators and more tier-paying members of Second Life in this thread and on that JIRA than I can on his forum with so many suspiciously unidentifiable one-named posters.

Sextan Shepherd

This is so stupid and pueril

I think I'am gonna manualy ban all the Redzone users from my SIM, and if one ask me why he's not allowed to enter I will let him know that it's because I use the Redzone shit.. (so he will know what it's like) and if he says that he use it too.. I will answer "Yeah but My redzone is telling me that you are an asshole!"

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Sione

Put yourself in a new user's shoes. You go in to a store, no PIOF and start playing with your inventory.

"You have been teleported home"
Sim Owner: "You are now banned from all my sims don't even think about coming back"
Noob: "What? Did I do something wrong. If I did I'm sorry I am just new and learning"
Sim Owner: "Oh yeah right. I know copybotting when I see it."
Noob: "What are you talking about? What is copybotting?"
Sim Owner: "You are lucky I don't AR your ass scum. You are now on my ignore list."

"Fuck this shit I'm gonna go play WoW at least I understand the abuse there"

Seeing all the paranoia around I bet this happens all the time.

Relm Foxdale

According to their system, I have 0 alts (and so does my alt, who was on the sim with me at the time).

I have actually have 4 alts. My, my, my. *shakes her head*

No one has targeted me yet, despite my blog posts. I guess this just proves no one reads my blog. LMAO.

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Sione

The guy is an idiot. He had legitimate people using his product for what they thought were legitimate reasons. He then got greedy and decided to open up a new market in private investigation using the data the legitimate people collected for him.

So whats going to happen now... He's killed any legitimate use for his product, people will stop buying it for it's anti-copybot hype and the people already using it for anti-copybot will abandon it once they see the crap the abusers are posting on his forum. LL will then shut down his private investigation business if they want to be taken seriously.

Sione

As for the people posting garbage on his forum. The ones that are not in it for the alt-finding only are wannabe content creators blowing hot air.

At this point in time no serious content creator with half a brain would want any association with him or his product. The ones still using it will be blissfully unaware of any of this.

Argent Stonecutter

If all LL provided was a hosting service, this wouldn't be an issue because there wouldn't be any stores to be banned from.

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The previous is a cybernetic datum published - in direct contravention of DoD Regulation #229RR3X3 - as being conducive to the physical, psychological and/or social well-being of the population.

Elysium Hynes

I belive this particular user, bannig RZ menbers is part of a the BDMS community they have been trying to protect their menbers from having their alts disclosed, and protect their right to privacy, From what i read they are actively. informing people about this sort of systems.

Argent Stonecutter

Streaming those packets costs money. The only ways for LL to have prevented this problem in the first place would have been:

1. Not implemented streaming media and HTTP on a prim at all.
2. Implemented streaming media and HTTP on a prim using Linden managed servers that don't pass the IP address on.

It is unlikely they would have implemented option 2 for free.

I'm suggesting a third option. Again, it would cost money. It would at least allow you to choose a third-party proxy, so you wouldn't have to pay Linden Lab.

My preferred solution would be free. That is, not implement streaming media and HTTP on a prim in the first place. It's apparently too late for that, because people don't seem to find "just don't use streaming media and HTTP on a prim" an acceptable solution.

Relm Foxdale

The gray area I see in this is where objectors use the same techniques against RZ users that RZ users use against them. You know, "rise above it" and all... *shrugs*

All I want is to see RZ gone and see LL make it so it can't happen again, and I'll be a happy elf. I don't want anyone damaged or destroyed in this...except OK, I wouldn't mind if it were the creator, I guess.

Argent Stonecutter

Can you do it the other way around, and make it a whitelist? That would be actually useful, because a blacklist won't block any of the people doing this for the lulz.

Masami Kuramoto

Second Life 2011 is probably the most hostile environment ever created in the history of gaming. I've played quite a few violent first-person shooter games in the past, but SL really takes hostility to the next level.

Sione

Personally I would like to see reduced tier offset by...

1. Free alt accounts being linked to premium accounts (for LL eyes only)
2. Free accounts can not transfer items unless they are linked to a premium
3. Free users can still do everything they can now except transfer items.

Hello more landowners paying tier and more premium users, goodbye ripped item distribution.

It's win/win for LL and the users.