Marx Dudek

Yes. And if zFire ever gets himself booted from the grid, expect it to get posted somewhere.

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Qie Niangao

You know, something like this is feasible.

I'd been lazily assuming that this would be prohibitively bandwidth intensive -- and I think it would be, if provided as a free service to every basic alt on the grid -- but even a nominal fee (or also making it a Premium benefit) would make this quite viable.

It sure beats lots of folks trying to "roll their own" IP addresses through third party proxies, thereby also hiding from LL.

They'd have to be careful not to oversell how much privacy it actually affords, but hell: let LL make it a profit source, for all I care.

Sure, it feels a little weird to charge for a bit of privacy, but hardly unusual: It's the Internet, where common decency is dear.

Erie

Consider the idea that consumers must stay quiet and allow vendors to freely operate in the shadows in SL.

There needs to be much more consumer redress in SL, as there is in the real world and the market would eliminate the scamming and fraudulent products. It is totally unfair that vendors can do as they please without any accountability to anything or anyone. And that vendors do not disclose the full features or lack thereof for their products makes the transaction one of abuse, even if another vendor is the buyer.

A definition of a Free Market is equal knowledge by both buyer and seller before a transaction is entered into.

Vendors in the real world rarely tell customers to go **** yourself or some such and stay in business for long. It is common in SL.

And monopolies are also highly regulated in the USA and that is a duty of the government, not a single self serving company, by both federal and state laws. etc. There are many non governmental organizations that also assist in consumer protection, certifications, and reviews of products in the markets. This is were our efforts fit.

In the real world the market does often eliminate the scammers and shady business operators with no government or other action needed.

Maybe we should be looking at the lack of actual law and law enforcement in SL. LL is subject the law, why is SL not, including free markets and the whole raft of regulation which includes consumer protection and an effort like ours. Yet I see this effort being labeled a mob or a witch hunt, it is nothing of the kind. It is an honest effort by a lot of people with a lot of integrity and leadership being maligned for producing information and facts concerning a serious invasion of privacy. How is this wrong? I see nothing here of the tone and banditry that is going on in the Redzone [Rz] forum, including by the vendor himself. This should certainly activate anyone who is concerned about privacy.

Someone who can present these facts better than I, is invited to present this information to the California Attorney General and the California Consumer Protection Agencies and any privacy protection agencies. LL is fully under the law in the USA and the 'tos' [existing RL laws and regulations] of the USA Federal, State, County, City, and so forth governments overrules the LL tos in all matters. No permission or approval should be sought from the offenders of the entire range from maker to users. Voting with your money is a completely fair approach.

SL cannot remain the wild west run by one company inventing a controlled economy including a market exchange of money that they totally control including the money supply, 'printing' money as they please, total control of 'land' prices, which is misnamed by them and on.

-------------------------

p.s. - With some volunteers to visit sims wearing greenzone, a complete up to date automated list of Rz locations could be kept, including sims that had it and have even removed it, If someone unknowingly bought and used it, they did do it, which is a plain fact, like it or not. Information has set us free, and will help keep us that way into the future, if we don't self censor ourselves.

p.s.s. - No one, including LL, has any business identifying alt accounts and this is the main purpose of Rz, not copy viewers or griefing. And the ban forever mentality of ppl in SL, they would not like it, yet they do it freely to others. This includes disclosing their error prone data to anyone who buys this scam tool, which is very convenient for stalkers.

p.s.s.s - And anyone at LL saying that this is ok, is detached from reality and even the view of their own CEO.




p.s.s.s.s - This has been referenced earlier but it bears repeating as it very much applies to the 'stay quiet' issue or expose it:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller
------------------------------------------------
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this helps and I am sorry in advance for any typing errors.

Hugzzz,
Erie

Sione

L$ may be transferable to US$ but when they are used in transactions in world they are not both the same thing. L$ are game credits not RL currency.

Vanish

You me confused.

__________________
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That Trees Got Icy Branches and,
The Good In Bad, That God I’ve Been.

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Chalice Yao

SL creators are as accountable as RL creators. People just need to do the same legal steps as you'd do in RL when somebody scams you, or sells you defective products etc.

People are just too lazy or have something better to do than to take those steps, energy and investment over 2-3 dollars worth of a product. Because that's about the amount most SL products sell for, if. Should somebody scam me for that amount, I might tell them what I think, tell others what happened, and then I'd not care much anymore, because 2 dollars isn't worth the stress and time wasted if I at the same time spend more than those two bucks on something like a pack of beef jerky that's gone in 10 minutes.


That's because ther other customers who hear about it don't necessarily care. Or they don't hear about it. That has nothing to do with the SL market itself.

LL is not a monopoly for offering a service, and I am not aware of any creator in SL having a monopoly on anything.

So does the SL market. Sometimes quickly, sometimes it takes a while.

The laws they need to enforce are for the most part enforced. Anything else like a creator scamming you, you being mistreated as a customer of a creator, etc is between you and that creator. LL is not going to hold you hand and tell you what to do there.

That....does sound like quite the opposite of a wild west.


LL actually has very good reasons to identify alt accounts. Just like any other service provider.

__________________
"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" - George Carlin

Dickie Swansong

Speaking as ya run-of-the-mill average consumer, I hafta say that that's not quite true. I don't create squat, but I'm very happy to give money to people who create Neat Things, n' it royally pisses me off when I see their creations stolen.

I once wiped almost half mai FL acause I discovered they were copying stuff and moving it over to Meta7, I won't be associated with such "people" in any way.

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Joshua Nightshade

Seriously?

Ingrid N

Because HITLER.

Dickie Swansong

Tree pretty.

Dickie Swansong

I've done just that after a creator (whos name ecapes me at teh moment) announced in a notice that he was bein' copybottered n' had installed a device ta combat 'em soon after this thread opened.

I pointed him to here, he read up n' decided ta stop usin' rz.

So, I would say it's a good idea.

Dickie Swansong

Sugar

OK i have a lil giggles here about teh SL blogs i dont know if anyone else noticed....
Im not sure how or who decieds an answer is correctly answered in the blogs.. but ive noticed that 99% of the correct answer concerning RZ. claim it to be a griefiers tool and violation of user priviacy...

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[18:51] PhantomZoneNode v0.5.14 BETA: Sorry, 'Bake me Brownies Bitch!!!!' is not a valid Phantom Zone command.

Don't make me dress up like a ponygirl to kick you!! Didn't you know Ponys kick really really hard.

Walker

The flogs are kind of like Yahoo Answers. Don't put too much value in what the users consider "correct".

Marx Dudek

I just found out that the club I've been DJing at for the past month has one.

I haven't been here since I got a GreenZone HUD. It went off as soon as I landed. I found the device behind a picture.

So my reason for being here, being a DJ, puts anyone who comes to listen to me at risk.

Fuck this.

Elysium Hynes

Damn Boy that´s mostly´s Free´s wonderful work on Samantha´s text with a contribution from Ann don´t make me look all that smart , could you please amend it to give them credit for it? i barelly changed a word or two.

__________________
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You can also check my Flickr or my Pinterest for event covering.

Cindy Claveau

This verges too much on the worn-out sophistry about "resident governance" that's been tossed around since SL began.

It doesn't work. The only enforceable laws in SL are those coming from Linden Lab. Everything else is just normal economic laws applied to the micro-economy of SL.

If a seller is not ethical and the word gets out, it will hurt their sales to some extent - though there seems to be a large cluster of SL residents who don't pay attention to forums, blogs, or other offline chatter about the grid. (See also the Minnu skin scandal back in 08).

As proof of this assertion, I offer you the experience of the Emerald viewer. If not for LL removing it from the approved TPV list, a lot of people would still be using it in spite of its use as a DDOS conduit.

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"As long as there’s one person on earth who remembers you, it isn’t over." - Oscar Hammerstein

Sione

Why do these innocent merchants/club owners hide their rZ units? Having security systems visible is prevention by deterrence. Hiding is waiting for something to happen.

They obviously know it's going to upset customers but put it out anyway. Hiding the unit does nothing to deter copybotting at all. They know if they put it on display it would cost them sales. They are not all as naive as some people are making out.

Samantha Poindexter

Honestly, I think that probably has more to do with esthetics than anything else. I have several scripted devices underneath the bed in my skybox, not because I'm afraid visitors will find them, but because they'd look ugly cluttering up the room...

__________________
Philip 3:16
For Rosedale so loved the grid, that he rezzed his only begotten Avatar, that whosoever believeth in him shall not crash, but have eternal Second Life.

Marx Dudek

The RedZone device is butt ugly, so I can understand that. But hiding it just makes it look worse when it's found.

Ann Otoole

so the redzone thing displays gore (adult content) when it ejects right?

Marx Dudek

Yes.

bronxelf

Oh I like where this is going....

Marx Dudek

Update: The club owner informed that he's taken it down. That makes me feel a bit better.

Marx Dudek

It's an option, though. It can be switched off.

I couldn't imagine Emilia wanting people exploding into bloody bits in her store. It tends to dampen the shopping mood.