bronxelf

Hold up. I think you misunderstand me. Buying it is not the issue. But once youre using it do you not know it's tracking alts?

Psyke Phaeton

You assume I am feeling defeated. I am not. The radicalisation of this issue is inspiring to me. And I see it as a natural outcome to the leaders of SL not caring.

This thread and the JIRA and the drama is inspiring to me. I was a defeatist a year ago when my education campaign, and many messages to Soft failed. Now I am hopeful again, due to people power.

Education is not the only tool. RZ is being attacked on a few fronts, including education, this is very good.

I believe the hackers will have the most effect. And it amuses me greatly that zFire is struggling hard to keep his tin-pot empire afloat.

https://no2redzone.wordpress.com/201...-with-redzone/

Is this what Philip wanted when he expected us to police ourselves?

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eku Zhong

in a way yes and in a way no...

supply and demand... if you cut off the demand.. the supply will die.
by educating ppl about systems like this you effectively kill the market for the next new kid on the block...

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bronxelf

Yes, I agree that this is effective. However, supply and demand are the basic governing rules of a boycott, or in a less harsh sense, a slow, gradual change. I bring up again: Hybrid vehicles, organic foods, the "greening" of the entire architecture/design community. Those things happened gradually, and they DID happen through education. But that's not how they *began*. They began when a few people got *really, really* pissed off and made a big deal out of it. Had they not done that, the beginnings of education would not have come to pass.

eku Zhong

ok.. i understand how you could feel like this after a year..

but..

educating LL has never ever worked for anything.. they will do what they have always done.. which is just whatever they please..

but your amusement about the hackers... there is where you are skidding off the road... thats on par with the emerald dos attack.. seriously.. its real world crime... end justifies the means... no..

it might be the way i am built but i believe if you want to fight a righteous fight... do it properly and cleanly.

Psyke Phaeton

Supply and Demand:

Lack of supply of customers leads to lack of demand for RZ.

eku Zhong

so can i ask .. do you think that contacting the store owner who use rz and pointing them to this thread and the JIRA .. is a bad idea and one that you wont try?

that isnt a rhetorical question.

Aki Shichiroji

I'm not convinced that anything the Lab can do will fix the issues inherent to products such as these without severely crippling the platform.

What do you think the Lab should do? Remove all media that can detect your IP? You're a DJ - surely you'd prefer people have the ability to access your stream easily? How about builds that rely a lot on web on a prim or video?

And so what if the Lab up and decides they will blacklist this product? There's nothing to prevent the guy from coming back on an alt with an identical product. Or even someone completely different from doing the same. Where does it end?

This problem is a social one. It grew and festered to the point it's at now because the success of products such as these hinges upon knee-jerk reactions to other (ALSO social) issues.

I have no illusions that the Lab will ever take this product out of service, however hopefully both merchants and potential customers can learn to grow beyond marketed paranoia and accept that buying in to it will only make it worse.

eku Zhong

not really .. it will make them more paranoid and more susceptable to the next round.

lack of a supply of customers for systems like rz .. means lack of demand for rz.

bronxelf

Oh no, I think it's an excellent idea. I just don't think it's the only idea. I also think that's it's a fantastically time consuming idea. I think the impetus has to come from *customers*, as that's the merchant's primary concern.

But you know, you have a valid and reasonable point. I am going to add something to the NC in the signs. will report back.

Micaela Darkwatch

You don't give a shit about anybody's privacy. If you did, you wouldn't do dumb fuck shit like this:

You do shit cuz you want to. You're like a kid in school who rearranges the teachers desk and his classmates desk. Because you want to. And while your there, rearranging, you peek at the test, through other kids notes, write down that phone number you found in that kids notebook...

Aki Shichiroji

Many hands make light work. (But hopefully those many hands can restrain themselves from picking up torches and pitchforks )

bronxelf

SL crashed on me, but Im in the middle of changing paragraph 3 (nothing else has been altered) to add the following, in consideration of Eku and Aki's thoughts on the matter, which I find both valuable and reasonable. Emphasis mine to indicate the change in verbiage:


This change indicates polite explanation and an honest attempt at education first, and consideration of a boycott as the last resort.

Psyke Phaeton

The righteous fight avenues are closed off. The oligarchy is planing no actions at all. Education in the past has failed, so I have a bias that it will also fail this time. Remember "EmeraldGate" was not exactly a minor event. At that time RZ was lumped in with Onyx. Why is Emerald gone? Not due to people being educated, but because the oligarchy (LL) killed it.

There is no workable way to put pressure on LL. But we can put pressure on the users of RZ.

maybe the education idea to you is untried, for me it is tried and failed. I really don't know which opinion is correct on this.

Asuming my bias is correct other methods in my mind become valid. LL has made a power vacuum. It will become filled with multiple factions using multiple methods to achieve their goals.

Given the lack of noble avenues to persue justice I am happily enjoying the less noble fighters for the cause. How sweet is it that the black hats are being attacked by the grey and white hats?

eku Zhong

if you include in the notecard a request to ppl to try to reach out to store owners who use rz etc .. and links they can give them.. Aki is right many hands make light work.

Micaela Darkwatch

This happened days ago. And there is a consistent pattern of this kind of abuse of your intelligence.

Gonna tell you something, kid. My dad is a firefighter. He has always said that ALL firefighters are arsonists deep down inside. The difference is, firefighters want to help, for real. There is no grey area.

Micaela Darkwatch

It's not enough. Somehow, someway, the information leak has to be closed.

1. The true paranoids, the ones who "see alt people" everywhere, who believe every SL bf/gf/partner/bff/whatever is lying about whatever they think they are lying about, aren't going to be noble about this.

2. The real stalkers will continue to use the leak to find as much information as they can on their target. Even in large ISP service area's, they can possibly get enough info to do what they will. In small service area's, it's cake. And you know it.

3. I hate to do the "think of the children" but, really, think of what can happen if a stalker sets his/her sights on one of our teen residents.

Psyke Phaeton

If education is the solution just go to the RedZone forums and educate them. Once complete this situation will be over.

Yes I am being a smart-ass, but I am making a valid point. RZ will not be leaving SL until those with the power remove it. Why? For the simple reason that some people want it in SL and are not persuaded by our concerns.

Based on this education is a fantasy solution. Sorry.

All it takes is one person per region.

Now destroying the database, that works.... (for a while)

Elysium Hynes

this is the notecard i have at my place if anyone is interested:


"WHAT IS SPYWARE?

Spyware is a type of malware (malicious software) that can be installed on computers, and which collects small pieces of information about users without their knowledge. The presence of spyware is typically hidden from the user, and can be difficult to detect. Typically, spyware is secretly installed on the user's personal computer.

While the term spyware suggests software that secretly monitors the user's computing, the functions of spyware extend well beyond simple monitoring. In an attempt to increase the understanding of spyware, a more formal classification of its included software types is provided by the term *privacy-invasive software*.

Source: Spyware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SPYWARE AND SECOND LIFE

A number of Second Life products claim to protect content creators from anyone who may 'rip' content illegally (i.e., copybotters). Many do this in part by detecting the type of viewer in use, and then banning individuals suspected of copybotting from locations where the product is installed.

For this to work "well" they need to collect information on EVERY visitor, copybotter or not, and retain it in a database. Both the collection and retention of that data occurs without your awareness, or consent. Data often includes IPs (Internet addresses), and can correlate alt accounts and resident locations.

For these reasons, we consider such products to be spyware.

Further troubling, there are few to no safeguards on how your data may be used or distributed, and little in the way of recourse from Linden Lab in cases of abuse. And despite the marketing, these systems stop only the most casual of copybotters as they have numerous ways to avoid detection, and they're more likely to rip content from locations and avatars beyond where any "protection" systems are run.


PROTECTING YOURSELF

No method is full proof, but there are a few things you can do to try and protect yourself and your information from spyware in Second Life:

1) Keep Parcel-based Media (Streaming music, Media) turned off in your Sound & Media Preferences unless you know you are somewhere trustworthy. Don't access Shared Media (web-on-a-prim) unless you trust the object or person who created/owns it. These can provide the holes which allow your personal information to be captured.

2) Find out if places you frequent use RedZone, CDS, or similar large-scale "copybot" scanning systems. If they do, you can stop patronizing them. You might inform the owners WHY you won't return until they stop using them, but let's stress they see these systems as an attempt to protect their content, not an opportunity to violate your privacy. They may have little idea how they work and surrounding issues. When contacting them, do so *politely*. Send them this notecard, or direct them to one of these locations for more information:

ZF Redzone, Disclosure of SecondLife Alts. - SLUniverse Forums
GreenZone

3) Learn more about these types of products on your own. Take your concerns to Linden Lab. Consider voting for, watching, and commenting on this JIRA:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24746

4) And spread the word. Send this notecard to friends. Blog about the issue. Knowledge is power.

(The U.S. The Do Not Track Me Online Act, introduced by Rep. Jackie Speier, would direct the FTC to create standards for a nationwide do-not-track mechanism allowing online users to opt out of tracking and sharing of consumer data among businesses. If you live in the U.S., contact your representatives and demand they support this legislation.)

WHAT SPYWARE-FREE MEANS

Content protection and stopping copybotters are important goals. But first and foremost, we believe customers deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. This includes having a healthy concern for your privacy.

Spyware-Free is a pledge that we will never use such a system ourselves. You can shop or hang out here with confidence!"

It´s a draft Free did from Samantha´s text with the adiction of ann´s contribution and little edditing of my own, i don´t see witch hunts sorry, i am not trying certainly to gain any profit from this, i just wan´t to inform people who visit my land.

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I have a blog with stuffs in it Sium
You can also check my Flickr or my Pinterest for event covering.

Psyke Phaeton

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Psyke Phaeton

671 votes is just awesome

Sugar

I just found this and didnt see it posted yet so i thought i would post it for you all.....

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[18:51] PhantomZoneNode v0.5.14 BETA: Sorry, 'Bake me Brownies Bitch!!!!' is not a valid Phantom Zone command.

Don't make me dress up like a ponygirl to kick you!! Didn't you know Ponys kick really really hard.

bronxelf

Actually, there is. The Lab can choose to enforce their own TOS. They can finally decide that no device which tracks alts via IP or any other means is okay without express consent of the user- and that merely teleporting in *does not count as consent*. That would in fact prevent it from continuing to happen- by real enforcement. It would require notifications and signage be provided on the part of people who use RZ so that people were informed they were being scanned *before* it happened.

PERSONALLY I would love to see them enforce the notion that **nothing** that grabs your ID (main, alt, or otherwise) and stores it on offsite database (you know, like Hunger.) without *opt-in consent* that can be revoked at any time should exist. But I know, I dream big.

Elysium Hynes

There was a thread about that interview if i´m not mistaken and some pointed maybe we should send Humble some links to marketplace or something if i´m not mistaken.

Psyke Phaeton

Maybe we should email him this thread. All of us