Elysium Hynes

Hey so do i, except on weekends.

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I have a blog with stuffs in it Sium
You can also check my Flickr or my Pinterest for event covering.

Joshua Nightshade

Inhandra

Last visit "Baby Monkey" was clean, and they seemed to have some cute things.
*scribbles down pixel mode for later*

Walker

Sorry. Please don't sue me. Either of you.

Elysium Hynes

Ann might mention it tho.

Argent Stonecutter

A lot of us aren't using Greenzone.

On the other hand, I can't believe people are actually taking Redzone seriously. It does nothing useful (unless you're stalking). It's trivial to bypass (get a new alt and turn off media). It's just plain creepy.

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Argent Stonecutter -- Skyhook Station -- Coonspiracy Store

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."


The previous is a cybernetic datum published - in direct contravention of DoD Regulation #229RR3X3 - as being conducive to the physical, psychological and/or social well-being of the population.

Mocksoup Graves

And a totally super easy to use HUD...


(sometimes I get Deja Vu on SLU.. dunno why...)

Innula Zenovka

Maitreya have got rid of their RedZone, it seems.

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Ann Otoole

then you get to be sent home for script overuse at any venue with a psykes orb that has reasonable script limits set. Since you cannot mod the shoes you cannot get the scripts out.

There are other places with high quality footwear.

Elysium Hynes

/me sighs was out shopping with my partner for some more drums for the garden and a super cute sea monster as soon as i entered shops bloody alarm started flashing.

Eclectic Wingtips

baby monkey is good too and yuss she definately has no spy crap pixieplumb is a friend of mine

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Quality rigged mesh clothing for Women in standard sizing

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Marsco/76/85/344

Misty Harley

when things like this are said about the signs that Elysium did simply out of the need to educate others...it's all gone wrong from her original intention:

This is why I say it's going BatShitCrazy:

ZF Redzone, Disclosure of SecondLife Alts.

Quote: Originally Posted by Humps
You can display all the signs you like. Personally I see it as self applauding but thats just me.

Displaying those signs is encouraging people to avoid shops that don't display them.

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Argent actually stated and tells me that Elysiums need to educate people has gone astray. For a few reasons:

1. Not every single creator on the grid will know about those signs...Argent, unless i am misunderstanding him, thinks those signs alone mean it's safe to shop there and if the sign is not up....don't shop there because they may have RZ or support it.

2. Creators or Sims do not need to place RZ in the store or on the sim, they can place them anywhere. So essentially, GZ also does not work in detecting who has RZ and who doesn't.

3. People who use RZ in a off store location/area can still place those signs in their store and nobody would be none the wiser.

That's why you can't fight fire with fire. People like Elsyium, who is simply trying to educate the masses has things turned and twisted that her original idea is shoved off to the side in order to start some sort of Witch Hunt.

It's the copybot advertisment campaign all over again that hit the fashion feeds a few years back. The original idea behind that was just like Elysium's....education...and someone turned that into a witch hunt as well. Don't have the sign in the store....don't shop there.

That's not the intent behind Elysium's idea and it's a shame it was taken there. What's even worse, because Elysium had the idea....she's the one who gets to catch hell for it.

Beezle Warburton

Personally, I don't care whether anyone else shops at the stores.

I want to be on the banlist because to me it's equivalent to being fingerprinted by the greeter when shopping at Wal-Mart. Not something that makes me warm and tingly about shopping there, so go right on ahead and ban me!

If that makes me "teh angry mob," eh, whatever.

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Misty Harley

Hell, they can put me on it if I'm not already there for some thing I said on the forums. At least then, I'll be saving money when I do finally log back into SL.

Sione

It gets to this because LL chose to ignore things for long periods of time hoping the issue will just go away. In the end it just snowballs in to what we are seeing now. People can only take so much BS before they start taking the law into their own hands.

Once the ball gets rolling.... well we have already seen Emerald crash and burn over a weekend.

It's LL who is at fault here. They have been well aware of whats been happening the whole time and have taken 0 steps to educate people. A simple blog post explaining how media works, what is happening with media in world that the system was not intended to be used for, how to stay safe around media and why it's not going to catch copybotters would have educated the confused customers, the scammed merchants and avoided this drama.

At the end of the day the media system has been abused for personal gain which has nothing at all to do with media. LL should be addressing the problem through education at the very least and ultimately fixing the viewer so it can't happen.

bronxelf

Misty said:

I can't agree with this. Example - Not every store I buy hair at has an anti copybot sign up. But they aren't selling stolen hair. I can see those signs for the simple education that they're intended to be. There is nothing there that says "if you don't see this sign don't shop there". I don't know many people who would make that leap and surely not make it without asking the owner if they used RZ or not to make a choice. The sign is not intended as a *lack* of protection if it's not there.

Ann Otoole

Most of SL's entertainment value is derived from media. LL would be stupid to kill the entertainment business. Better to outlaw all surveillance systems that share data/associate alts without opt in in advance and ban every person that has one out with no warning.

Erie

So just using a viewer someone, somehow decides is a viewer that somehow can copy things, makes them guilty? Don't they have to actually *use* it to perform the crime?

And how is this viewer a *bot*, if a user is controlling it?

And I don't think even LL should know anyone's alt[s], who said they have the amount of responsibility to use this information or even protect it?

Anyone can create an account that in no way can be linked to another they created, even by LL.

Is banning the only way to handle things in SL? Doesn't this actually upset people and make them want to retaliate and grief?

Do media streams show the ip AND the user name together? Perhaps making a similar program available for people to read would remove any myths about how clever these products are?

Why is it that many business owners take NO responsibility for the products they sell? No customer service, no refunds, etc ......

Consumers are not given the information before buying, and they are out of luck afterward. For instance, products that can be easily fixed or enhance are unchangable? You can mod and transfer RL products. You are not allowed to take your property with you when you leave SL.

Many sellers are impossible to even communicate with, yet the store is selling 24 by 7. And, of course, treating all customers as if they are thieves, yet taking their nonrefundable money instantly. "What, not delivered, not my fault", etc, if you can actually contact them. Maybe consumers should be allowed the same rights concerning payments?

These facts allow Rz and other very deficient products to collect real life money for purchase and not give it back when found lacking by the buyer.

How can a company ToS over rule the RL law, even if LL is a business?

How is anything in SL called "real estate" or "land"? No one "owns" it, they pay for computer services for a set amount of time. These terms are misused so casually as to make people believe it is something that it is not.



Regards All,
Erie

p.s. I see a lot of people saying very good things in this forum!

Sione

A simple "This parcel has a media stream would you like to enable it?" would suffice. Look around, no screen, click NO. Problem solved.

Ann Otoole

no. it must state the purpose of the media is surveillance that is illegal in many countries and is used to associate your alts with your main account and mass ban you from all subscribers if any user of the system enters any of your accounts. Then let people discontinue the teleport before arriving.

Better to just ban anyone that thinks that sort of shit is a good idea. They can go live in Algeria, Iran, or China.

Elysium Hynes

I honestly don“t understand this leap in thougth that sees information as attack honestly. Or this idea that i have some mob of followers lol, I have a small group inworld a sim that is barelly a store and is mostly a hangout to anyone wanting to visit.

Now since this Redzone thing went into an HUD complete strangers can stalk people on my land, and i can“t even stop it, hell i have every right to inform them of this.

Misty Harley

Oh I agree 100% but unless I am misunderstanding Argent...that was his theory behind the signs.

When the copy bot issue hit the fashion feeds a while back...the signs someone came up with were for educational purposes only....someone....decided that they would be the passing litmus test as to whether or not it was 'safe' to shop at that store.

That's where these things always go wrong. Elysium (and whoever started the original content theft issue with the fashion industry) wanted to educate....but someone else decided to take it all as step further and witch hunts occurred.

We're not even in day two (I don't think?) of Elysiums idea (which as far as I am concerned, education is ALWAYS a good thing) and it's already being used as a means to Witch Hunt. That is NOT Elysiums fault and she's taking the shit for it. As we've seen in this thread.

And that's why these things always fail. Because someone takes it to the extreme and others start to follow THAT idea instead of the original.

Jopsy Pendragon

Humps- I appreciate your frustration with the 'mob rule' issue here, but this is a struggle between ignorance and privacy.

It is clear that merchants have their priorities, and protecting our privacy is not one of them. Not where the illusion of safety for their content is concerned. Not until our desire for privacy starts affecting their sales. Other than a boycott there is no effective way to let them know we don't like being sold out by their so-called 'security' systems.

The question they need to evaluate is this: "Is the very limited amount of copybot protection offered by this product worth alienating my legitimate customers over?"

Copybot thwarting is like putting reflective glass in front of the Mona Lisa to stop people from photographing it. Some people will end up with a snapshot full of reflected flash... the others will step to the side and snap again until they get what they wanted... a reproduction of something they weren't entitled to.

I don't know... I've always disliked cds systems for a long laundry list of reasons I won't get into ... but this publicly viewable list of alts thing that redzone does is a violation of privacy that dives straight into 'dodgy' territory for me. They knew that feature would give them a competitive advantage, and, imho, they sold out on their so-called 'noble' anti-copybot mission for a quick buck by including it.

Ultimately, I hope LL comes down on them and says "enough. correllating and publishing information on our residents without their consent is a violation of the spirit of our ToS/CS... cease and desist with that part of your product."

If the people that spoke for redzone displayed more professional ethics and ran a tighter ship, I might be more inclined to tolerate their accumulation of our private information if it remained unpublished, but obviously they're not taking their custodianship seriously. Not until others point out how lacking it is.

So yes. It may be unethical peer-pressure... akin to mob-rule, but it's a message that needs to be heard by merchants so they can make a more informed decision about spending money and selling out their customer's right to privacy, just so that they can protect themselves from only the weakest of copybotters.

bronxelf

Im honestly asking- explain to me where the witch hunt is occurring? People are choosing not to shop at places with RZ. That's their choice. It's also their choice TO shop at places that use RZ. No one who doesn't use it is saying "if you shop at X store that uses RZ you'll be banned from my store." The banning is all being done on the part of RZ users.

Ann Otoole

A "mob" freed Egypt.