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Old 02-12-2011, 10:23 AM   #776 (permalink)
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:25 AM   #777 (permalink)
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I thought the same as Ash until Chalice pointed out that it could be harvesting IP addresses using web on a prim. This seems a far more flawed method than using llParcelMediaCommandList/PARCEL_MEDIA_COMMAND_AGENT on an individual parcel, but might explain all the false positives we keep hearing about.
Web on a prim detection work fine, but the viewer is always undetectable. I think that it is necessary to accustom that certain resident copy your works, this is the ransom of success and a form of publicity...

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Old 02-12-2011, 10:26 AM   #778 (permalink)
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Also, allow me to join the ranks of content creators who will not use RedZone, CDS, or anything of the sort.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:30 AM   #779 (permalink)
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I agree completely. I have no issue with anyones individual rights to choose whom to patronise and where to boycott. No issue whatsoever.

What I am saying is that when a movement evolves around ANY issue it gains momentum and has 'clout' that individuals alone do not have. I would say there is an obligation to use this power responsibly. If all you are going to do is bully others into seeing things your way then it is a wasted opportunity and equates in my view to mob rule.
Is it bulling.. if they have teh facts and still decied to ignore their customers right to privacy?.. This issure is all over the blogs and inworld groups.. any store owner that is not fully aware. of the problems RZ causes has their head in a hole if you ask me.. and still choose to ignore our rights....

Its our choice as a group to send them back a messege saying we will not tollerate your actions by boycotting yoru store.. thats not bullying.. but making a informed decision to spend our money at places.. that respect our privacy while informing the rest of the comunity of those that do not....
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:35 AM   #780 (permalink)
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Sorry, Humps, but I think that these systems are an abuse of legit customers. No one is entitled to my money, especially if they're doing something I find abhorrent.
Of course Coyo...and that is your choice to make, and for any reason. What I cannot support is encouraging others en mass to do the same. You can't ever change anyones mind by bullying them into submission. You can change their behaviour of course because you gave them no choice but you will only ever entrench their original misunderstanding or preconception.

THIS is what I take issue with....and this alone.
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3) Find out whether the shops you patronize use RedZone, CDS, or other such systems. If they do, stop patronizing those shops. You might politely inform the owners WHY you won't be giving them your business anymore.
To use Joshuas analogy I just can't understand how it is effective when a shopkeeper aims his pistol at your head to aim one back. I would call that stalemate. Nothing will change and in six months we will all be back here having this same argument just as we were six months ago.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:38 AM   #781 (permalink)
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To use Joshuas analogy I just can't understand how it is effective when a shopkeeper aims his pistol at your head to aim one back. I would call that stalemate. Nothing will change and in six months we will all be back here having this same argument just as we were six months ago.
That wouldn't be my analogy.

Following mine would be a customer coming to a store and seeing the store keeper aiming a weapon at everyone who steps inside, deciding "Fuck that rudeness, I don't need a Butterfinger that badly," then telling their friends what an asshole that person is.

What if these content creators blindly subscribing to CDS and Redzone don't know anything about the dramatics and abuse of personal information until the issue showed up in a boycott? I'd think the majority of them would rather not use something that has little to no benefit or protection, if they knew it for sure, rather than invest time, hope and money in something worthless just because placebos are better than nothing.

Ofcourse given that the CDS and Redzone, et al, krewe keep insisting that anyone complaining about their systems is a terrible copybotter, maybe that ignorance is easy enough to stick to.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:44 AM   #782 (permalink)
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THIS is what I take issue with....and this alone.

Quote:
3) Find out whether the shops you patronize use RedZone, CDS, or other such systems. If they do, stop patronizing those shops. You might politely inform the owners WHY you won't be giving them your business anymore.
Would this be better?

Quote:
3) Find out whether the shops you patronize use RedZone, CDS, or other such systems. If they do, You might politely inform the owners WHY you dont care about your Privacy or the pricacy of others and continue to surport their store to keep as many redzones on the grid as possible so maybe someday all alts will be public..
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:46 AM   #783 (permalink)
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The RedZone HUD doesn't actually scan people, it just checks it's database for known abusers based on whos next to you.
Media playback on attachments is possible. Even if the current RedZone HUD doesn't scan, it may do so in future versions.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:50 AM   #784 (permalink)
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I wouldn't go so far as saying Rezone is obsolete. zFire's own forum seems to demonstrate that there's more of a market for alt information than preventing copybotting.
Copybotting is actually not the main reason for someone to have zfRedZone on their land. If it gets a lazy or beginning copybotter it is considered a bonus aspect of the product, but the real reason so many people have this product, including on their private, non-business, properties, is to see if the same person they had a problem with before is now posing as someone else, or if they are telling the truth about whether they only have the one avie and are loyal to only them (thank you vampire systems, empire systems, combat groups, and investment groups, for pitting people into battle with one another in a second life as though the first life didn't have enough of it, lol).

GreenZone can be beaten easily enough just by putting the RedZone product on their tier-free for premium members 512m plot under a different group than the merchants or main home of the owner and then just manually putting the name of the suspected avie into the search box on the website. RedZone would never be detected at the merchants store or publicly known land of the owner (they could even put up the 'Spyware Free" signs on the publicly accessed lands and be technically correct.)

Do I have friends who use this Product ? Yes. Does it mean I will stop being their friend if I find out they have it ? No.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:52 AM   #785 (permalink)
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well the inevitable crapfest will surely begin now: Adventures With RedZone « no2redzone
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:53 AM   #786 (permalink)
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Look I am not going to convince you of my point of view, neither will you convince me that your 'solution' is anything but an escalation of the rancour surrounding such a contentious issue. We tried to hash it out before as I said and we got about as far as we have this time.

I refuse to be at loggerheads with any of you about this. Ultimately we all want an effective solution that offers protection to merchants who can ill afford the losses they sustain whilst at the same time respecting the privacy of consumers. Both have an equal right to feel supported and protected.

In my opinion pitting the two sides against each other is merely a distraction that feeds chaos and gives a cloak to those who would abuse all of our rights. I am sorry to be the voice of doom and piss on the parade but there you have it. If I just agreed with you all of of the time I would not be Humps would I!

I don't even have a visitor tracker on my sim anymore .....frankly I am past caring who visits and who does not. On a personal level I would rather take my chances with the botters any day than go against a mob in full flow. That is why I say you have a responsibility. Abuse it at your peril.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:56 AM   #787 (permalink)
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Would this be better?
Cheap
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:57 AM   #788 (permalink)
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Yes Lord greenzone can be defeated and anyone can put a sign pretending they use no such device but use it. Then what hapens is their word as a merchant is worth shit.

Yes i might have friends who use it myself do they stop being my friends? No. But they don“t any of my money either, and maybe it“s time merchants realized yes you can lie to your costumers, and omission is a lie but if they find out about it (and trust me these things always come out) someone is gonna be really pissed, and they have every right to do so.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:03 AM   #789 (permalink)
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Web on a prim detection work fine, but the viewer is always undetectable. I think that it is necessary to accustom that certain resident copy your works, this is the ransom of success and a form of publicity...
What a load of crap. The kind of copybotters that these systems detect are amateurs more than likely ripping for personal use only. They get caught but they were probably never going to buy the item in the first place anyway. They sure as hell wouldn't want to be making it public.

The ones causing the damage know exactly what they are doing, how do get around being caught and are giving the ripped shit away for free full perms. You dam well know this and it's very far from publicity.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:07 AM   #790 (permalink)
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Do I have friends who use this Product ? Yes. Does it mean I will stop being their friend if I find out they have it ? No.
Nor I, I think. However they might stop being mine as I will still laugh at the stupidity of those who think this will stop harassment from new alts. There are too many pay proxy services out there that are fast enough to run SL through. The kind of entitlement weenie who thinks you owe them friendship or such enough to stalk you won't be too bothered by this as they'll just make another alt and use it via proxy.

If you really want the approximate level of 'security' that this device grants you can get it much cheaper by requiring payment info on file to enter your private lands. As for shops, it's probably only good to stop the morons. Over time I expect it to make copybotting an industry as it weeds out the little ones in favor of fewer smarter ones.

It's something similar to what happened to Microsoft when they finally started implementing common security protocols in Windows. It largely killed off the threat of the weekend hacker and replaced it with much more sophisticated, better organized groups.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:07 AM   #791 (permalink)
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Cheap
Humps i don“t think she meant she would do something like it, i don“t consider anything like this a mob. i certainly don“t.

No one intends to start a mob, but it feels weird when you ask us to take responsability for our own management of our wallets, when merchants, don“t take any for allowing this database to grow due to their traffic.

This is not a war, i don“t think merchants using this realize we work as hard as them for our money.

Humps i want the people to visit me and be safe, and i can“t on my own land you realize how scary that is?

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Old 02-12-2011, 11:10 AM   #792 (permalink)
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Cheap
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:17 AM   #793 (permalink)
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well the inevitable crapfest will surely begin now: Adventures With RedZone « no2redzone
Hm? That's the way to get myself onto the ban list?
Cool.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:18 AM   #794 (permalink)
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This proposal reminds me of one of the most famous cartoons in computer security.



All this will do, if implemented, will be to provide a false sense of security.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:20 AM   #795 (permalink)
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The RedZone HUD doesn't actually scan people, it just checks it's database for known victims based on whos next to you.
Fixed.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:21 AM   #796 (permalink)
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Humps i don“t she meant she would do something like it,
Oh I am sure she would not. She was being sarcastic.

My concerns are valid and I have tried to relay them in a reasoned way without being confrontational. Many of the people in this thread are friends, people for whom I have a huge amount of respect. I like to think that they know me well enough to respect me even if they dissagree with my opinion.

I have no idea who Sugar is but her post was neither respectful or likely to convince me of anything other than she plays a cheap game.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:22 AM   #797 (permalink)
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What I am saying is that when a movement evolves around ANY issue it gains momentum and has 'clout' that individuals alone do not have. I would say there is an obligation to use this power responsibly. If all you are going to do is bully others into seeing things your way then it is a wasted opportunity and equates in my view to mob rule.
So, wait, you're opposed to store owners putting up signs that say they're not using redzone?

Because that's what we're doing here.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:23 AM   #798 (permalink)
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I'm waiting for LL to provide a better solution for the privacy issue, but I'm not going to stop pretending that I have a solution to the copybotter problem.
Fixed.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:23 AM   #799 (permalink)
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Unfortunately it looks like Redzone's simple letter substitution encryption of its database communications has now been broken and has been made public , along with a detailed description what parameters are passed. The upshot of this is that it is currently possible for any one with a particular LSL script (which is in the wild) , to add any name/UUID to the main Redzone Database and have it associated with your own IP address and thus identified as your ALT.

Unfortunately this also means it would be possible for someone to use a throw away alt, a proxy server, the details of a known banned copybotter and the name /uuid of any other person and get that person banned by Redzone.

Regardless of the legality or ethics of Redzone, I suspect that it's days are numbered


EDIT: Well Ann beat me to it ... Never answer the phone whilst about to post ...
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:30 AM   #800 (permalink)
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Quote:
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So, wait, you're opposed to store owners putting up signs that say they're not using redzone?

Because that's what we're doing here.
Argent I am sure you argue with me because you like doing it! Is it a Squirrel ferret thing?

Read what I said properly (please....just this once) and you will see that I already stated that my ONLY issue is with encouraging people en mass to boycott specific merchants.

You can display all the signs you like. Personally I see it as self applauding but thats just me.
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