WolfEyes

beetleguise









Beetleguise!!









BEETLEGUISE!!!!

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Beezle Warburton

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Beezle Warburton

Darn skippy. If I'm going to be banned, I at least want the heady joy of having annoyed someone first

Srilania Svoboda

that was in answer to the "Well with the features removed, why aren't you happy?" question.

And yes, that statement is the point. It's a good tool for what I use it for. Perfect? no. Did what I needed? Yup. Did I use it to violate someone's privacy? Well, if you mean going through the lists perving every single person, no. Did i look to see why certain people kept bouncing out and leaving a pile of bones? You're damn straight I did.

I used it RESPONSIBLY and in a manner that did not violate people's privacy. Till someone was bouncing out, I didn't look.

I do indeed have legitimate security concerns. What I am honestly miffed about here is the fact that once people's privacy concerns are addressed, security's going to get thrown under the bus and set on fire, and no one but the victims will even be concerned.

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ANYTHING stated here is my opinion, and should NOT be taken in any way, shape, oor form of the opinion of The Phoenix Viewer Project as a whole, or anyone but myself.

Leah Mayo

Why, oh why didn't I read one more post after Cristiano's?

Roxy Couturier

Hypatia Callisto

LOL, that guy never had any respect for anyone's privacy. He was selling your visitor lists to people who never copybotted a damn thing, to sell an alt outing device. You never had control over it, you gave him control over all your visitors' data.

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"To begin with," said the Cat, "a dog's not mad. You grant that?"

"I suppose so," said Alice.

"Well, then," the Cat went on, "you see, a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad."

"I call it purring, not growling," said Alice.

"Call it what you like," said the Cat.

Theia Magic

Apparently you've never lost an object that ended up on 0,0,0 on the sim before. I have, in fact twice. It happens, and I said, I went back after 10 minutes of him trying to convince me to help him. I'm glad I did.

As I also stated (a couple times now) I went there after seeing your post of the screenshot here. So yes, you would've detected Redzone then, because it wasn't finally removed until the next day when I went.

I think you and I see the whole Rz/merchant thing differently. I am not out to persecute them, I'm trying to make them see what it does (and doesn't) so that they will remove it. I am trying to educate them. This is why I've taken to listing non-Redzone locations rather than Redzone. (with the exception of those hiding it intentionally) This is also why I list them as (Rz removed) on my blog, again, emphasizing the positive rather than the negative.

I want to see the grid free of Redzone, not stagnant with a bunch of empty shops because they're using Redzone. Education, and a little patience, goes a long way. This is proven continuously as more and more people remove their Redzone.

This is and always has been my goal. Sure I've come across the occasional asshat hiding it just to be spiteful. But even then, if someone is willing to talk to me and make a change? I'm all ears and open to it, even if cautiously.

You can continue to assume you know what happened at his sim all you like, however you're wrong because I was actually there. Ironically, we got to talking and he showed me a rather ingenious security tool he was trying to come up with on his own, after two repeated attempts to get zFire to remove the alts from the database. (he showed me the notecards he'd sent to him, spurred after his friend from Saudi Arabia was wrongfully banned due to a bad IP link).

I can fully see why you are assuming as you are, I would too had I not had the interaction with him. But he came to me on his own, and I listened, just as I have listened to many merchants before him. He is not some Redzone fanatic at all, just another mislead merchant trying to protect his creations with snake oil.

I am not for a moment excusing the use of Redzone for any reason, but I do excuse the humanity in all of us that leads us to make really dumb decisions sometimes.

He's now another merchant Redzone free, to me that is a victory, not something to persecute him for.

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⊱ღ One Big Blond Moment ღ⊰

Theia's Blog✔

Roxy Couturier

Then instead of whinging on and on about it, do like the whole Gz movement did and proactively -do- something about -your- concern.

For the vast majority here. And I mean vast considering the large number of sim owners, managers and content creators/business types here, consider the present tools sufficient.

The whole 'GreenZone' thing started with one or two people offering coherent arguments against Rz and it blew up from there.

Get off your ass, focus on facts (not hyperemotional hyperbole) and organize.

Or just moan and complain. Whatever.

Beezle Warburton

At least they understand the importance of having colors in lists.

Eclectic Wingtips

Im sorry every time i read this i laugh. Because what you use the item for has nothing to DO with security anyway. What the hell does where i live have to do with security? Or who booted who? (why not ASK your staff... interesting concept)

Beyond that you have no bigger security concerns than anyone else, and LL offers you wonderful tools for that.. like ban, mute and eject!! Hell they even allow you to AR.

The only 'security' like feature is the bigger ban list... but hundreds of other security orbs offer that

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http://slurl.com/secondlife/Marsco/76/85/344

Jopsy Pendragon

I strongly disagree with that statement.

By having redzone installed and enabled, YOU were passively and frequently violating the privacy of your unknowing visitors, who had the misfortune of having their media enabled.

It is inevitable that zFire's database will be leaked/published/redistributed. But now, thanks to you, there will be names of people in there, no doubt shown as scanned at your place of business.

I'm sure it doesn't necessarily matter to you, but some people would fly into a screaming rage if they, say, opened a newspaper and saw their name and address listed as "Spent two hours at the Adult Video Emporium four times in the last month."

And that, frankly, is your fault.

Simply put... your security robbed your visitors of theirs.

Eclectic Wingtips

PSSSTTT looking up anyone's alts for ANY reason is a violation of their privacy....


and considering how many times you said you never looked it up... until NOW that is, why should we believeing a word you say?

Beezle Warburton

Rationalization without listening, you're doing it.

Beezle Warburton

pixplxkthx

Whisper

Bbbbbut the sky!! it's falling!

Beezle Warburton

A Discordian is Prohibited of Believing what he reads.

IT IS SO WRITTEN!

Beezle Warburton

WHUT?

Oh, you said . . . oh, nevermind.

Sonja Aeghin

Beetlejuice!

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"Perhaps, we can see the future beyond the rain."-WURM: Journey To the Center of the Earth

Theia Magic

Just thought I'd let you know, I asked the owner today why you were banned. He said when he took down Redzone, he first imported his banlist into his own database so he could keep it.

Apparently, anyone zFire labels as a copybotter, is automatically imported into ban lists if the owner enables that feature. He had that enabled, and somewhere someone labeled you as a copybotter so you were automatically in his ban list.

He now has roughly 2800 people to go through to remove the ones placed in there by zFire rather than him.

He said he was going to remove you ASAP, and that he's going to be sending you (and the others this effects) a notecard explaining/apologizing.

I just thought you'd like to know.

bronxelf

This is the problem. Even if the users of the system don't feel they were abusing it(whatever no one is going to change their minds about that.) ***zFIRE HIMSELF*** has been abusing it on behalf of *EVERYONE.*

This is why even with security features that are found to be valuable by users.. It *cannot come from him*. It cannot chatter with a third party database. It HAS to remain between the LAND and the OWNER- even with every tool Sri says she would like. It *CANNOT* be linked.

Leah Mayo

Any doubt that RZ owners will find themselves, their IPs and alts stored in that database?

Whisper

People who refuse to learn from mistakes often find that after a while other people stop listening to them and stop offering advice.

Hitomi Tiponi

I think the problem now is with zFire himself. Throughout this he has been caught lying, being deceitful, and conniving to outwit residents and LL alike. We can never trust him that Redzone is doing what he says because his track record is so suspect. What we do need is for someone, preferably one of the well-known, respected scripters to produce a product providing all the features of Redzone without the data scraping - it should be an instant hit with those who now wish to remove their Redzone.

Nynaboo Rhapsody

A lot of people are making some really good posts in this thread, and they cover a lot of my own thoughts. I keep thinking of making a reply, but most of the time someone else has already said what I think, so i am button mashing the agree button a lot.

But there are a few thoughts that keep going through my head, and for some reason i just need to express them before i go to bed here.

There seems to be some kind of bizarre entitlement, redzone users think they have, that that seem to completely miss what others are saying, and totally ignore how violated others have been by this. What right do they have to know anything about an avatar in Second Life, other than what they volunteer to tell them, and what the profile says for that avatar? The only ones that have that right are Linden Lab. And even though the product doesn't work, they defend it to the ends of the earth.

You've all been scammed, and you're doing nothing but helping defend the scammer, contributing to the scam, and showing a complete disregard for anyone other than you in the process. That is AWFUL business.

You know, when i managed a club, we used to be able to catch the people who were stacking the vote with alts pretty easily, without any tools like this. It was called being observant and paying attention to what was happening around you. Just saying.

I have not been on these boards long, and i don't post much, but I have seen the members of this board do more to fight against copybot and stolen content than any system like this could do. The users of this board, in most cases, have a great deal of integrity when it comes to supporting people who have been wronged by a person, a business, a situation....and they do it in a way that continues to make Second Life a fun and welcoming environment...unlike devices like Redzone who treat people like criminals just for popping into a sim with one active.

I quite honestly used to enjoy traveling around, listening to the different streams as i went from one sim to the other. Dumping my money in tip jars at clubs, buying things just because they were neat, or pretty, or absolutely insane. But lately I find myself more and more on my own sim, not doing much other than maintaining my business and making new items for it. Because part of that joy has been stolen from me by systems like Redzone. And they had no right to steal that from me.

So pardon me for saying, to the distinctive Redzone supporter who has been posting in this thread, and to any other Redzone supporters who may be reading. Fuck You very much.

And now i need to sleep.

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