Ann Otoole

yes. And the emerald viewer was destroyed/banned for doing things they should not have too.

Argent Stonecutter

The instructions posted here were missing an important step but I'm not going to elaborate because it's useful information.

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Argent Stonecutter -- Skyhook Station -- Coonspiracy Store

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."


The previous is a cybernetic datum published - in direct contravention of DoD Regulation #229RR3X3 - as being conducive to the physical, psychological and/or social well-being of the population.

Joshua Nightshade

Most of the TPVs don't "datamine" anything more than usage metrics.

Certainly none of them are going around matching accounts to alts and disclosing that in a public database.

Also, there is no "alleged" datamining. That's what the entire point of the product is. It's explicitly stated as such. I'm not sure how you can call it "alleged" when his sales page underscores that the entire product, in explicit terms, is solely about linking alt account.

If Phoenix or other viewers were doing something like RedZone, there would be a similar degree of outrage. It was the Emerald developers using the viewer inappropriately to attack a critic's website that ended up causing that viewer's downfall.

Kabalyero

What are TPV's datamining now? Are they being used now to match avatars with their alts? Darn... O_o *sad day for avatars* T_T

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Mad Mouse

But can you guarantee they don't? What about updates? LL doesn't have to check those AFAIK, though I could be wrong. Please correct me if TPVs have to submit each update to LL.

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Tonya Souther

Because TPV developers have already learned that lesson. Were you around for the Emerald debacle?

Mad Mouse

Indeed I was, which is why I'll never trust a TPV, all it takes is one person to put something in one update...

Innula Zenovka

Which TPV do you say has been collecting data about me and then using it to compile what purport to be lists of my alts and selling at $US16 or so, no questions asked, an apparatus to retrieve this information?

Or do you say that it's in some way inconsistent to be considerably more concerned about actual and demonstrable misconduct by someone who has given me every reason to distrust him than am I about the potential for some hypothetical misconduct by people whom, rightly or wrongly, I do trust?

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Argent Stonecutter

They are also perfectly aware that games even superficially similar to SL, like Warcraft, don't work that way. Many of them play Warcraft without having a conniption fit about people not REALLY being Thud Rockcrusher. So this is a complete red herring.

Joshua Nightshade

I don't have to make that guarantee.

You do have to prove they already are, however, as that's a much larger accusation to make.

If you can't prove that they are, while numerous examples have demonstrated that they aren't -- or were rightly smacked when they did -- then I fail to see what using a third party viewer has to do with disliking an asshole hawking a product that exposes account information.

Ann Otoole

Sorry but your attempt to cast aspersions upon the legitimate third party viewer developer teams and their users has failed. There are plenty of eyes on the code.

However, were you to cast your aspersions upon illegal counterfeiting viewers then they might be mining anything at all.

And you could always ask LL why they need the remote control libraries in the LL client.

(I will continue to use grammatically correct obscure words just to annoy Argent for a while)

Hitomi Tiponi

Hi there Mad Mouse - and welcome to SLU. With all these things it is a matter of trust. Many of the TPV makers have shown themselves to be trustworthy, and their code is readily available to pull apart and check, in case you don't believe them. And there are plenty of people around who would be happy to blow the whistle on them if they weren't clean. I do not know of any TPV that harvests IPs other than as a way of making it run properly - they certainly have no intention of linking accounts with that information.

When we had the Emerald affair that was quickly exposed on here. In a way SLU is pretty good at 'outing' the suspicious activities of others - if you want to see what the Redzone owner is like I would recommend visiting his forum.

Tonya Souther

Then you shouldn't trust any open source code, including Viewer 2. Phoenix gets just as much outside vetting as Viewer 2 does. Want to see just what's in Phoenix? Or Firestorm? Head on over to the repository and knock yourself out.

Joshua Nightshade

It was, and might still be, a Facebook terms of service violation to register an account under something other than your real name. They backed off of pseudonyms due to a number of high-profile suspensions involving artists losing their official accounts because they didn't register them under the name on their birth certificate, but they may still have a prohibition against registering your SL or video game character.

Facebook is, after all, a real life social network, and I don't entirely understand the point of registering it under a virtual identity. But given that the only people I have added on my list are SLers I've met in real life, real life friends and real life coworkers, I have an obvious bias towards keeping that aspect "real." There's numerous other social networks with much more popularity that cater towards those who want a myspace page for their SL account.

Mad Mouse

Ty Hitomi for answering me in a sensible, polite way. I do have concerns about the matching of IPs, but can someone prove this list is stored in a database somewhere for the creator to do whatever with? AFAIK users don't have access to alt names anymore.

Argent Stonecutter

That doesn't make any sense. The popup should operate on the URL delivered by SL, before any attempt is made to look the server up in the hosts file.

If it doesn't work that way, the popup is ineffective.

Mad Mouse

I don't use V2 either ^^ hate it

Sione

When you use a TPV you are making a conscious decision to use a 3rd party product based on the fact that there may be risk.

When you TP in to a sim you are stepping on to a LL server under the pretence that it is safe to do so, you will be given suitable warning that something untoward may be going on and your safety is a priority concern for LL.

Hitomi Tiponi

Probably more Tonya - I know I can't believe some of the xml changes that get through in Viewer 2.

Joshua Nightshade

While Phoenix might have as many eyes looking at its code as Viewer 2, it's specious to claim that it gets the same level of vetting.

What official Linden Lab employees are vetting Phoenix' code in an official capacity as an employee of LL as part of their normal day-to-day role with the company?

Note, if the answer to that question is anything other than an actual name -- and especially not "lols there are but I'm not allowed to say" -- then the answer is actually "no one" and it's disingenuous to claim otherwise for advertising purposes.

Now that's not to say that I don't believe Phoenix is trustworthy, but you and Emerald both have a real serious issue with misrepresentative wiggle words that you honestly need to knock off on.

Joshua Nightshade

....are you serious?

They did for over a year up until two days ago.

Thank you for joining this thread, hopefully you can catch up.

Dickie Swansong

Wouldn't never as much as going to the site after they get moved over constitute an "opt out"?

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Joshua Nightshade

The popup isn't a viewer component, I thought. It's just a component of RedZone itself.

I would think having it pop up when the URL was delivered would require deeper interaction than scripts get.

Ann Otoole

Do you know anything about php and mysql?

bronxelf

Mad Mouse asked:


Further, there has never been any question that the database is in zFire's hands on his own personal server (not on the Lab's servers in any way). Anyone here will tell you that, and zFire will gladly tell you that- it's his ace in the hole after all. He's already threatened (and screencaps are plentiful) to post the database outside of LL's control and charge a fee for *anyone* to access it, if the Lab doesn't do as he wishes.