Ann Otoole

MPAA gets more laughs for selling the DVD DRM code to realnetworks who contracted to build a licensed dvd player and then proceeded to make and sell a dvd ripping tool with the code. and realnetworks gets the golden gorilla balls award for pulling that off. Of course they landed in court and it is all nasty and real is very bad for doing it but still you have to admit it is worthy of serious belly rippling laughter.

Liona Clio

I don't think that the people who are angry at the RIAA are pro-theft. Thieves will always exist; as long as there's stuff to take, there will be a percentage of the population that will work to take it without permission. The problem is no one wants to tackle the issue of how to deal with the people who want to do legal transactions. Draconian surely is the word. And since thieves by definition don't really care about following laws, the ones who bear the pain are the honest customers.

I just want my right to buy an artistically designed skin, strap on my Siggy Swimmer HUD, and go skinny-dipping in my decorated beachfront. Tell me they aren't going to take that away from me!

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Jacquelin Seisenbacher

1. I agree 100%. My folks own a small retail shop in town and I can't tell you how many times some person has come in to ask questions, try out guitars etc. only to show up one week with this "Great Guitar I only got for a buck off Ebay! But it's broken, can you fix it?" Of course said instrument isn't great at all, the top is glued on with no binding, the braces on the inside are half unglued and the neck is warped to Vega and back. Basically, that stuff is around inside and out of the country, and scam artists are scam artists. Granted, a badly made guitar isn't going to cause you any bodily harm, but I think you get my point.
2. The companies like Disney and their ilk I dislike emensely, and have a hard time supporting their fight for copyright (despite the fact that yes, I do support it, don't like it, but fair is fair). Why? Well, simple, they, more often than not, never created what they own the copyright on to begin with. Sony is one of the worst, seriously, these are the guys who put malicious code in their stuff and when it messed with customers' systems, what did they give in return? about $11USD worth of mp3 downloads that still contained the stuff they got in trouble for. Yeah, I don't sympathise with the big guys.
Anyhow, brings me to two things. 1. Buy local, support the small creative folks and just don't buy from illigitimate sources or sources who bugger others for profit. 2. The treaty won't fly, even if it does somehow manage to be passed, it will be a colossal failure. But I don't think it would even get that far. For each corporation who would theoretically benifit from its being enacted, there would be another that would be hit hard (just imagine a fight between Disney and Youtube... O.O) The whole thing, in my opinion is just a large waffle so that the corporations that want to have complete control think something is happening. Basically it will go down like the

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Gigs

This is likely. Obama filled the justice department appointee slots with former RIAA lawyers.

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Tess Whitcroft

Eric Holder as Attorney General.
Elena Kagan as Solicitor General.
David Ogden as Deputy Attorney General.
Dawn Johnsen to head of the Office of Legal Counsel

So I am guessing you are referring to...

Tom Perrelli, Associate Attorney General.

Are there more?

Tess

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Gigs

Tom Perrelli appointed Associate Attorney General as you pointed out.

Ian Gershengorn, appointed DOJ Deputy assistant attorney of the Civil Division. Partner in RIAA lawfirm firm Jenner & Block, represented the labels against Grokster.

Don Verrilli, appointed Associate Deputy Attorney General, another RIAA/Jenner & Block Grokster lawyer.

Brian Hauck, appointed Counsel to the Associate Attorney General, Jenner lawyer who handled parts of the Grokster appeal.

Ginger Anders appointed assistant to the Solicitor General, a Jenner & Block associate lawyer.

http://musicindustryreport.org/?p=6673

And they didn't waste time:

Gigs

Here's two more, while not RIAA, BSA and "media interests":

RIAA and BSA's Favorite Lawyers Taking Top Department of Justice Posts - obama - Gizmodo

Tess Whitcroft

Have you read the brief that the Justice Department filed in the SONY BMG Music Entertainment vs. Tenenbaum case? If so do you think that the brief is incorrect in any way? If so in what way?

Tess

Chantal

Oh you're kidding.... or rather no you're not. It's hardly just a question of 'common sense' - Sometimes, you have no idea you're buying a fake, and as for medicines... not a drop in the ocean. Music, etc. is just part of the picture.

Also, not too many developing countries use the Internet. People buy what is available and telling 'legal' and 'illegal' suppliers apart is simply not possible.

From the UN (so much for the 'it's all about music...!)

http://www.unicri.it/news/0712-3_Counterfeiting_CRT_Foundation.php
According to the European Commission counterfeiting would total between 5-7% of the total legal market. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) affirms that up to 200 billion US dollars of international trade in 2005 could have been in counterfeit or pirated products, this figure does not consider domestically produced and consumed counterfeit pirated products and the pirated digital products distributed via the Internet.
The World Intellectual Property Organization, WIPO, has estimated that the losses sustained by EU member states in tax revenues correspond to 3,731 million Euro in the toy and sports clothing sector, 1,554 million Euro in the pharmaceutical sector, 7,581 million Euro in the clothing and footwear sector and 3,017 million Euro in the perfume and cosmetics sector.

From the World Health Organization: WHO | Substandard and counterfeit medicines

The United States Food and Drug Administration estimates that counterfeits make up more than 10% of the global medicines market and are present in both industrialized and developing countries. It is estimated that up to 25% of the medicines consumed in poor countries are counterfeit or substandard.
These figures place the annual earnings from the sales of counterfeit and substandard medicines at over US$ 32 billion globally.

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Psyke Phaeton

I don't think copyright is about protecting consumers from danger. Copyright is about protecting an original work. Full Stop.

They can play the dangerous card but the danger to the public from any product is a different issue and not limited to illegal copies/clones.

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Ann Otoole

I'm still wondering wtf this has to do with national security. I'm all for copyright and being able to make money and all but since when does downloading Britney Spears' If You Seek Amy off a torrent constitute terrorism?

And why is the FBI asking tattoo parlors to turn in people that pay with cash?

Chalice Yao

Something I mused back when the status of it being a matter of national security got reported; If you had told somebody only 10 years ago..heck, probably make that 5, that anything like somebody copying some movies or music would be handled as a matter of national security, they probably would have started at you, and then left you with the sound of bellowing laughter.

Today it's a sad reality, and what's being directed at the matter are shaking heads and disbelief in WTF is going on up there.

Wtf? Is that real? Did the US reach the point where somebody is a terrorist suspect when they pay with cash for services and some cool kids get identical tattoos?

Seriously, is the world going plain mad here?

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Chantal

Agreed.

As I said earlier, calling it 'counterfeit' doesn't really work to describe what's going on on SL. Partly, but not always.

(for the rest, I just get tired of people saying 'oh, you just need to buy from a reliable source' and 'oh, it's all about the music trade'.)

But anyway: counterfeiting is all about those who perpetrate it.

The OECD says: Unauthorized representation of a registered trademark carried on goods identical or similar to goods for which the trademark is registered, with a view to deceiving the purchaser into believing that he/she is buying the original goods.

And on SL, sometimes there's not even an attempt to trick people into thinking it's genuine, or an original, it's just a matter of getting something cheap or free.

Sometimes, of course, it IS a question of a counterfeit item, and sometimes buyers are fully away that it's a ripoff.

So I think I'd settle for calling it IP abuse, or piracy (which isn't limited to swashbuckling guys with long hair and mascara).

Piracy is all about 'unauthorised', whether those who do it or those who use it, i.e. (Webster's): the unauthorized publication, reproduction, or use of a copyrighted or patented work.

And we're talking, on SL, about those who do it AND those who condone it, either passively or actively, no?

Chantal

Well, this sort of thing:
European Commission » Internal Market &raquo Enforcement of rights

Excerpt:

"With direct links to organised crime, counterfeiters have become extremely skilled entrepreneurs operating on a global scale. Counterfeiters make expert use of current technology and trade and succeed in producing every imaginable type of fake. Where previously only luxury goods, fashion and music and film products fell victim, nowadays, counterfeiting affects foodstuffs, cosmetics, hygiene products, medicine and spare parts of cars, toys and various types of technical and electronic equipment. As a result, the danger to our health and safety increases, while at the same time consumers are often not aware that when they buy a fake product there is a good chance that at least part of the money will go to organised crime or child labour."

And yes, it's a little breathless-progaganda on the part of the EU but there's also an element of truth in it.

(says she still wearing her fake watch bought in a market).

But... tattoos? Oh please.

Ann Otoole

When you make the world your enemy your days are numbered and the number is small.

Chantal

Depends what 'world' you're talking about, really. Because there's not much the 'world' agrees on.

Chantal

Much as I prefer to buy my guitar from a local expert (or my food from a local producer, and lots of other things....)

I prefer to buy penicillin, for example, from folks who have the ability to make it, rather than from mould lovingly and creatively cultivated in a neighbour's cellar.

Also, not always easy for people to tell 'illegitimate' from 'real'. SL newbies are often naive, and don't know anything about ripped hair except that it looks better than what LL offer them.

I say LL needs to do a HUGE HUGE HUGE awareness campaign about the problem of ripped content. As far as splashing it all over their website and blogs, making it part of the sign-up process, and generally speaking out against it. Even to making lists available of known, major content thieves and what they've copied.

But they won't. It might put people off.

Gigs

The FSF brief in the case states it better than I can:

Tyche Shepherd

The ACTA section which forces ISP's to cut off internet access of accused copyright offenders without access to a trial or counsel, turns out to be at odds with the new EU Telecoms bill which was agreed in committee last night, which enshrines the right of due process on any user of the internet even if accused of copyright infringements . The same bill will also scupper any individual EU countries own 3 strikes laws*.

The Swedish Pirate Party MEP writes about this break through here Telecom package: Final agreed text « Christian Engström, Pirate MEP

The bill still needs to be ratified by the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament but most of the debate takes place during this committee stage so it's thought it will go through.

Edit: * That is those laws which don't include due process.

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Jacquelin Seisenbacher

Oh, Ann, you made that too easy. It isn't terrorism if you blow yourself up, but it is if you blow up others. Same applies. If you listen to Britney Spears, you are not committing an act of terrorism, but if you force others to listen, you are



edited to add: Chantal, that's part of what I mean, sorry I didn't put it well. Granted, some folks would prefer to grow their own penicillin, and that is up to them, but I'd rather go to a legitimate source for it, instead of an illegitimate one.

Argent Stonecutter

I use the BSDL instead of the GPL.

BSDL: "Here's some cool stuff, don't blame me if it doesn't work, don't pretend it's yours"

GPL: "Here's some cool stuff, but if you wanna do anything cool with it you gotta join the movement".

Chantal

This... should be considered by the UN when pondering on a definition of terrorism acceptable to all.

Unless, of course, there are Britney fans at the UN.

Stranger things have happened, I guess.

Tess Whitcroft

That's all well and good but I didn't ask you to state a case nor was I referring to the FSF brief.

Tess

Gigs

What "entitlement mentality"?

You can choose to use GPL code or you can choose not to. If you choose to use it, in return for using it, you must keep the code open. It's quid pro quo, not entitlement.

Gigs

What? You asked what I thought was wrong with the Obama/RIAA brief. That's what's wrong with it.