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**Cristiano** · 11-02-2009, 11:16 PM

LL has formally responded to the lawsuit:

The PDF of response

Alphaville Herald : Linden Research Denies Eros/Nominee Trademark/Copyright Complaint

Quote:

Linden admits that Second Life includes a Digital Rights Management (“DRM”) system, and upon information and belief, that persons have used third-party programs to circumvent that DRM in the past. On information and belief, Linden admits that CopyBot is a third-party program that allows users to circumvent the Second Life DRM system and copy digital content that is used with Second Life without regard to the copyright or trademark status of that content. Linden admits that such use is prohibited by the Second Life Terms of Service, and denies the remaining allegations of this Paragraph.

Linden admits that on or about June 17, 2008 LR inadvertently disabled some content within Second Life, and that promptly thereafter LR stopped that disabling. Linden lacks sufficient information to admit or deny the remaining allegations of this Paragraph, and on that basis denies them.

Linden admits that LR controls some of the technology and systems that comprise the Second Life platform, that some information related to Residents’ activities is stored on LR servers, that Residents may acquire virtual land within Second Life subject to the Second Life Terms of Service, and that LR charges service fees. Linden lacks sufficient information to admit or deny the remaining allegations of this Paragraph, and on that basis denies them.

Lordfly Digeridoo · 11-02-2009, 11:21 PM

"We don't know nothin', and if we did we didn't do it anyway"

Ayumi · 11-02-2009, 11:28 PM

"We know there is a problem, but we dont know enough about it for it to be our responsibility to learn if its our responsibility and so we shall deny responsibility based on our inability to be responsible for a problem which we dont know enough about to be responsible for."

without any punctuation.

Ayumi · 11-02-2009, 11:30 PM

or to paraphrase; *shrug*

Actually, its more like

"LALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU LALALALA"

not to be confused with "LALALALA JIHAD ON CONTENT CREATORS LALALALA" :/

WADE1 Jya · 11-02-2009, 11:38 PM

So is that it then, case closed? I don't get it..

bladyblue · 11-02-2009, 11:56 PM

This is where LL gets the US court system to set the precedent for them. Of course LL will be contributing 'information' to help the court decide the outcome of the case.

Once the US court system makes the ruling, LL will update their ToS to reflect the content creator policy 'forced' on them by the ruling.

Winter Ventura · 11-02-2009, 11:59 PM

I beleive this is the legalese equivalent of:

Brenda Connolly · 11-03-2009, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordfly Digeridoo

"We don't know nothin', and if we did we didn't do it anyway"

"I'm sorry Senator, I have no knowledge of such an operation, nor would I be able to discuss it if I did."

Arilynn · 11-03-2009, 12:36 AM

Seems more like admitting the bare bones stuff they couldn't deny and put a placeholder in for the rest, which should be expected this early, IMO.

Shelly · 11-03-2009, 02:04 AM

No suprises there, they were never going to roll over and admit liability.

Ryanna Enfield · 11-03-2009, 04:03 AM

They admit to owning and operating Xstreet, but danced very nicely around any discussion about commission from sales. I expect to see that tune revisited.

**eku Zhong** · 11-03-2009, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryanna Enfield

They admit to owning and operating Xstreet, but danced very nicely around any discussion about commission from sales. I expect to see that tune revisited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blog Bot

Total Xstreet sales reach a new all time high in Q3 2009 – In its third quarter under the Linden Lab banner, XStreet, the web marketplace for Second Life virtual goods, had gross sales of 420M L$, or approximately USD 1.6 million.

This represents 13% growth over the previous quarter and 72% growth over the same quarter one year ago. XStreet remains small by comparison with Second Life overall, at approximately 1% of the USD 150 million Second Life economy in Q3 2009.

not a trivial piece of change at all.. and some of that is from stolen stuffs...

Sonja Aeghin · 11-03-2009, 06:17 AM

Siggy · 11-03-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryanna Enfield

They admit to owning and operating Xstreet, but danced very nicely around any discussion about commission from sales. I expect to see that tune revisited.

I think thats the most interesting part of the entire case - and one that I'm really looking forward to see how it plays out.. as for the rest, I guess legalese will always to some extent confuse me...

'I can't admit or deny, so on those grounds I'll deny' ??? ya just said you couldn't fucking deny - so which is it?

Shit makes my head spin.

Kyllie Wylie · 11-03-2009, 09:32 AM

Cheif Programmer of Second Life Responds.... "I know Nuuuuuthink!!"

Cindy Claveau · 11-03-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WADE1 Jya

So is that it then, case closed? I don't get it..

This is only Act I in the great legalese dance. It was just the Lab's official response. There is more dancing to come before it ever gets to court, if it gets that far.

Going by what Stroker's legal firm said, this is a strong case and it's not going to get brushed under the rug very easily.

Gigs · 11-03-2009, 09:47 AM

Calling it DRM concerns me. It's not really DRM and Linden Lab has said that numerous times.

This could have implications under the DMCA anti-circumvention clause.

Siggy · 11-03-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigs

Calling it DRM concerns me. It's not really DRM and Linden Lab has said that numerous times.

This could have implications under the DMCA anti-circumvention clause.

Then again after the much published ballyhoo about how much money has been transacted, and their own marketing about how happy they are that folks make money in SL, blah blah blah, they've denied knowing that folks in SL make money at all....

It will be interesting how that plays out.. Stroker has said in conversation that it's not a DRM system, which would mean that if he is aware of it, his lawyers are - and have done the applicable research.

Camille Serpentine · 11-03-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Linden admits that LR controls some of the technology and systems that comprise the Second Life platform, that some information related to Residents’ activities is stored on LR servers, that Residents may acquire virtual land within Second Life subject to the Second Life Terms of Service, and that LR charges service fees. Linden lacks sufficient information to admit or deny the remaining allegations of this Paragraph, and on that basis denies them.

What does LR stand for?

MoxZ Mokeev · 11-03-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WADE1 Jya

So is that it then, case closed? I don't get it..

No, this is just their Answer to the Complaint.

Tyche Shepherd · 11-03-2009, 10:05 AM

Linden Research Inc - The parent company of Linden Lab (or it's proper trading/registered name)

Tranquility · 11-03-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camille Serpentine

What does LR stand for?

Linden Research

Tranquility · 11-03-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

ELEVENTH AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE
(Contributory Negligence)
Plaintiffs’ alleged damages were caused, in whole or in part, by Plaintiffs’ own negligence.

Gotta love this one, "Its your own damn fault you used our program!!!"

But seriously, how can LL even say its negligence on part of the content creator? Unless maybe they are saying the negligence is the act of logging onto SL in the first place?

Tranquility · 11-03-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigs

Calling it DRM concerns me. It's not really DRM and Linden Lab has said that numerous times.

This could have implications under the DMCA anti-circumvention clause.

Reason number one they are calling it DRM:

Quote:

FIRST AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE
(Digital Millennium Copyright Act)
Plaintiffs’ copyright claims are barred, in whole or in part, by the provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S. C. §512 et. seq.

Galen McGinnis · 11-03-2009, 10:38 AM

I never knew he was a lawyer.

11-02-2009, 11:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lordfly Digeridoo Grid.Living Buy my prefabs! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,325 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 5 SL Join Date: 7/21/2003 Business: Grid.Living XBOX Leaderboard: 18^th Awards: 1	"We don't know nothin', and if we did we didn't do it anyway" __________________ http://www.lordfly.com/

11-02-2009, 11:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ayumi Rockstar Crazy Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Your wildest fantasies. Posts: 1,364 My Mood: Business: [ AYUMI ]	"We know there is a problem, but we dont know enough about it for it to be our responsibility to learn if its our responsibility and so we shall deny responsibility based on our inability to be responsible for a problem which we dont know enough about to be responsible for." without any punctuation. __________________ www.rockstarcrazy.com - My Fashion Blog!

11-02-2009, 11:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
WADE1 Jya Virtual Animal Creator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canada/Japan Posts: 19 My Mood: SL Join Date: September 12, 2006 Business: The LOLO Pet Shop	So is that it then, case closed? I don't get it.. __________________ Inworld Shop: The LOLO Pet Shop! Official LOLO Pets Website: www.lolopet.com Xstreet Marketplace: My animal & pet creations! The LOLO Pet Shop - your place for pets, animals & more!

11-02-2009, 11:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
bladyblue Senior Member Watching the pandering mob Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 607 My Mood: SL Join Date: February 2005 Business: CLUB SCHOOL	Re: LL Responds to Class Action Suit This is where LL gets the US court system to set the precedent for them. Of course LL will be contributing 'information' to help the court decide the outcome of the case. Once the US court system makes the ruling, LL will update their ToS to reflect the content creator policy 'forced' on them by the ruling. __________________ http://drasticNCIchanges.blogspot.com/

11-02-2009, 11:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
Winter Ventura Eclectic Randomness Predictable Experience Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pod Six Posts: 1,200 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 5 SL Join Date: 7/13/2006 Business: Eclectic Randomness	I beleive this is the legalese equivalent of: __________________ Inworld Store: http://slurl.eclectic-randomness.com Website: http://www.eclectic-randomness.com Twitter: WinterVentura

11-02-2009, 11:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ayumi Rockstar Crazy Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Your wildest fantasies. Posts: 1,364 My Mood: Business: [ AYUMI ]	or to paraphrase; shrug Actually, its more like "LALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU LALALALA" not to be confused with "LALALALA JIHAD ON CONTENT CREATORS LALALALA" :/

11-03-2009, 12:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
Arilynn is chasing her tail Ninja of love Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5,039 SL Join Date: July 3, 2008 Business: Wandering about in a daze. Tabbing out. Blog Entries: 5 Awards: 1	Seems more like admitting the bare bones stuff they couldn't deny and put a placeholder in for the rest, which should be expected this early, IMO.

11-03-2009, 02:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
Shelly Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Auckland Posts: 170 My Mood: SL Join Date: 29/04/2008 Business: Creative Licence Prefabs	No suprises there, they were never going to roll over and admit liability. __________________ Lead me not into temptation, I can find it myself

11-03-2009, 04:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ryanna Enfield Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 12 My Mood:	They admit to owning and operating Xstreet, but danced very nicely around any discussion about commission from sales. I expect to see that tune revisited.

11-03-2009, 06:17 AM	#13 (permalink)
Sonja Aeghin The Griefing Wall so much for status Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sweet Home ______ Posts: 922 My Mood: Popup Killer Champion! SL Join Date: 2/8/2008 Business: Ugly Schtick Privacy/Griefing Walls! Blog Entries: 2	__________________

11-03-2009, 09:47 AM	#17 (permalink)
Gigs Backroom Bureaucrat Is it wicked not to care? Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,738 Awards: 1	Calling it DRM concerns me. It's not really DRM and Linden Lab has said that numerous times. This could have implications under the DMCA anti-circumvention clause. __________________ - - "It is the paramount duty of governments and of politicians to secure the wellbeing of the community under the case in the present, and not to run risks overmuch for the future" - JM Keynes

11-03-2009, 10:05 AM	#21 (permalink)
Tyche Shepherd Fortuna vitrea est enjoying the victor's spoils Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK Posts: 5,470 My Mood: SL Join Date: 26th April 2007 Awards: 1	Linden Research Inc - The parent company of Linden Lab (or it's proper trading/registered name) __________________ Vanguard of the LolCatz Revolution This Post was financed by The National LolCatz Archives Clancy Sullivan :Yeah. YEAH! The sultry seamstress of mirth is definitely in charge now. Certified 7.8 on the Official Non-Arbitrary Trout Algorithmic Slut scale A public copy of my Second Life Main Grid Survey Database can be found at http://www.gridsurvey.com - Now with added Second Life Incidents !!

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