Marianne Little

I am a big fan of François Bourgeon. His work "Les Passagers du Vent" is maybe the bast cartoon I ever read. The story, the characters, the illustrations.

I want to upload some of the front pages and use it as decorations in my SL home. All this copyright that I read about now makes my head swim. I don't resell it. I won't alter it or put "MLittle" on it as I do on my pictures. I strongly doubt some sell licensed fan art of his in SL. What do you think?

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Ann Otoole

ask the copyright owner.

Marianne Little

I was more wondering what the rules say about personal use. Is there a greyscale, or is everyhing black and white? I own the cartoons in RL. I can frame them on the wall if I want, but not in SL.

Sending an email about it if I wanted to use them in a business, yes I would. I am not sure if I would do it for a 10L upload and then have it on the wall a month, then put up some other pictures. I change often.

Hypatia Callisto

This is something I would personally say "fair use" but unfortunately the law doesn't see it this way.

Ask the artist, is all you can do if you want to stay legal. Me personally, I stick to artworks of others where the copyright has expired.

Yes, some folks want to insist there's copyright on that too, but they just willfully ignore Bridgeman vs. Corel.

Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

I feel very strongly about eroding fair use and public domain rights. Copyright should be more limited than it is right now, and its stopping culture when it erodes the ability of people to enjoy art. What is the point of art anyway if it can't be displayed and enjoyed?

While I support strongly the need for artists to be paid, I also support the need for a balance. It's something I feel passionate about as an artist.

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Siobhan OFlynn

As long as it's for your own personal use and you're not selling it, I don't think it's a problem.

I suppose you could do as Ann suggests and ask for permission from the copyright owner. I don't think it's necessary though, as long as you're not profiting from it.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.

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Hypatia Callisto

As copyright doesn't have to be "defended", its quite likely that nothing will happen. It's up to the artist if they want to stop someone from displaying their work or not.

But the law lets them "defend" it if they want to. But the chances are just high that the artist won't see a point in that.

Marianne Little

OK that clear it up a bit. The law says I have no legal right to do it. But if I do it and only use it for decoration home, not much is going to happen. It is tempting to do it and then, technically, if you break it down, I am stealing. Even if no other money than the 10L fee for upload is taking place.

I got it right?

Tyche Shepherd

Under French copyright law (which I'd guess would apply in this case) there is an exception where the Author ( copyright holder) cannot refuse copies for the private and personal use of the copier . However Works of Art are explicitly excluded from this and I suppose it's also debatable how private and personal Second Life is . I think as others have said the correct course would be to ask the copyright holder for permission.



Mind you there is also this exception - So just add text above the picture saying "I think this is really Ace"

"In cases where the name of the author and the source are clearly indicated,

a) Analyses and short citations justified by the critical, polemical, scientific or pedagogical nature of the work".

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Sid Nagy

If every texture would vanish in SL that is not licensed by the original creator or build from scratch by its user / merchant, we would be living in a mainly plywood world (If even that texture is an original LL produced one).

My advise: Don't try to be holier than the Pope in this case.
If the copyright holder ever will adress you about this, then it is time to say sorry and take the texture down.
As long as it is for private use, no big things like law suits and fines will ever happen IMHO.

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Archer Braun

You're gut feeling is correct. The rule of thumb to apply in these circumstances is that if you didn't make it yourself...ask permission. Not from the artist..but from whoever holds the copyright to that art.

Darkley

how old is the artwork?

If its over 75(70?) years old, you are ok

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Archer Braun

Not if it's a work for hire, where the copyright for corporate creations is, IIRC, 95 years, now.

Ned Easterwood

I asked about that in one of the threads where such matters were being discussed. Carter said that yes, technically, I was in violation, but only the most pedantic would worry about it. Here's the post.

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Hypatia Callisto

The artist generally knows who holds the copyright, if they created a work for hire or if they still hold the rights.

Also this is France, so you are dealing with moral rights too.

Khamon

Personally, I'd display it on a prim that gave the artist credit in the name and description fields so people would see that on mouseover or examiniation; then I'd script a URL to somewhere that a copy could be bought. Giving credit and point people to the real life product seems reasonable to me.

Bear in mind that I'm no lawyer and I do know that Disney would have my head on a plate for doing just exactly this with one of their images. So asking is always a good policy. You might seriously consider putting it up first, then asking permission so you can "show" them what you're talking about. If they've not been in Second Life, they might not even understand what you're wanting to do.

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Lucifer Baphomet

Why worry..

You've already violated any applicable laws by posing the image in the thread

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Marianne Little

How? That's interesting. It is subject for discussion, and used to illustrate the discussion. Is that violation too?

Marianne Little

No, it's 30 years old. A classic cartoon.

But the early Mickey Mouse animated movie, like Steamboat Willie, was released in 1928. I think Disney would have something to say if I put some nice drawings from that movie up on the wall?

Marianne Little

IMHO, the worst would be to alter it so it could be mistaken for my own work. Like cutting off the text and frame it.

I have actually thought about getting the NC give script.... put it into the poster and if clicked, giving out a NC with reference to Bourgeon in Wikipedia. Not that there's any traffic through my quiet corner of SL.

PS: I am not worried about anything. I thought it could be nice to discuss small breaks of copyright, done in the daily of ppl who don't intend to earn money.

Hypatia Callisto

that's a good idea... also you can url link an object to wikipedia, I have a short script for that, too. That's another thing I wish we could do easily with objects, add a URL. It's crazy we have to write a script for that.

I guess later on I'll see about posting that script for people to use.

Lucifer Baphomet

The discussion did not actually need the image..

We're not discussing it's composition or artistic merits here, but the legality of using it in SL.

As such, I'm not sure that this would count as fair use.

Khamon

Disney worked hard to distance itself from the rat-like Mickey that appeared in early cartoons. I seriously doubt they'd be chasing that one down drawing attention to their past association with it. Paint a modern Mickey on a preschool wall though and you'll be paying the fine and painting over it or going to jail.

Marianne Little

Well, I can see what you mean. But if you google the author or "Les Passagers du Vent", you get up a lot of images. I wanted to show an example of what I am interested in. It also shows the name of Bourgeron and the title, can't be mistaken for some other image. It was a point for me, I would have it as a tribute, and is interested in showing where it came from.

Carter-Madhu

While the kind of use Marianne describes is probably a technical copyright violation (assuming US copyright and US law, which is probably not applicable in this case, but might not differ much), it's the most de minimis and personal use there could be, and is not the sort of use that anyone but the most sanctimonious pedant would criticize Marianne for doing.

This is where the danger in using words like "theft" comes into play - I know this was debated in another thread. Marianne's example may be a technical copyright violation, but it is really a stretch, morally and legally, to consider it a theft.

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Lucifer Baphomet

Granted Marianne.

FWIW, I think that the definition of "fair use" is too narrow, and that copyright laws tend to be too strict in general.