Siggy

The current lawsuit is in part because LL doesn't follow their own TOS.

I'd say adhering to their own contract atm should be on the list of priorities before adding new stuff.

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And as it was in the beginning, so too shall it be in the end. That bullshit is bullshit, it just goes by different names.

Jesse Barnett

Just do not be deceived by the juvenile banter.....................

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Siggy

haha in more ways than one Laughably similar in how we'll certainly see different political factions using them and their actions to lend support to either their adgendas or consipracy theories.

Which of course is precisely what they want.

So - in that regard, its just like Bin Ladens Flying circus and why I have to take off my shoes and check in my nail clippers every time I get on a plane.

Couldbe Yue

yep and there's more chance of an amended ToS that they can further ignore when it suits them than any actual action on the ground.

They can then put out a press release telling everyone how they've tightened up on content theft.

Charlotte Bartlett

Imho - everything on the internet is insecure. The difference is reaction and policy of the provider or host. I suspect Jim Sink and Avatar Reality will have noted the commercial value in policy and reaction in their plans with Blue Mars .

Charles_D

Maybe it will seriously undercut the value of the chickens.

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taste for human flesh."
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Siggy

A few more posts, and your journey to the dark side will be complete!

Sorry - I can only stay serious for so long

But yeah - thats the frustrating thing - change can only be brought about by LL...

Couldbe Yue

My move to the darkside started around Jan 2007 and I made it to the doorway in april this year. My final embracing of the darkside happened on May 5 when I sat through a replay of an inworld LL press conference.

The saddest thing about LL is that their behaviour isn't a conspiracy, it's just basic laziness, incompetence and greed. Unprofessional right to the core.

Rev Eponym

'END OF SL' TIME AGAIN, WHEEE!

Right on time, too! Any excuse for a party. Where's the Asti Spumante?

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Shelly

I have never seen a copybot client, until recently I didn't even realise it was a client, i thought it was a script. What is the difference with this one that's got everyone so freaked out? Reading this I get the impression it's easier to use, I have no idea how copybots work?

Also who or what is PN?

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Ann Otoole

Well you happen to be on the right track in respect to the only thing that will stop the problem anyway. Like a huge neanderthal convict asphyxiating them in the shower during a tender moment. Which is why law enforcement is the solution.

Chantal

In the great scheme of things, cybercrime units may be more interested in, y'know, trivia like massive use of the Internet for organised crime, terrorism, advertising fake goods like medicine that can kill you... etc.

Or should every national police force (and let's throw in the international guys too, considering cybercime often involves several countries) redeploy their resources or hire new staff to go and co-ordinate with the local guys (often in another country) to knock on the doors of people 'stealing virtual goods'?

Sure it would be nice. But so not going to happen. And it's not for a lack of caring. It's called lack of resources.

But yes, some agencies know about SL. It's just not a priority until bigger bucks are involved. In the UK, for instance, international cases involving a lot of work but with less than a certain amount of money involved are simply not actioned.

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RandoymRandt

Now you're just being funny, right?





wat?

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Quiplash

I have spent the last hour and a half kicking the tires on the same viewer (I'm not giving out the name) that Jesse first mentioned at the start of this thread.

Capsule review: HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT.

1. You can make a full-perms copy of ANYTHING in your inventory. It seems to have all the features of Second Inventory built into the viewer, but without regard to any permissions. In fact I predict this will put Second Inventory out of business completely. The full perms copies will have your name as the builder, owner, etc. so perhaps that is one way to detect copybotted items created using this.

2. You can make a full-perms copy of ANYTHING anybody else near you is wearing. I was able to make copies of textures for shirts, pants, and skin, plus objects such as hairstyles, shoes, etc. etc.

3. I had really no idea how the software worked but I played around with it and I learned it in less than an hour. It literally is as simple as clicking buttons.

4. There are some bugs - notably, footshapes for shoes don't seem to work, but overall everything is a perfect copy of the original. The ripped skin is indistinguishable from the original, for instance.

Comparing this to earlier programs is like comparing building a car yourself from scratch to buying the car, turning the key and driving it off the dealer's lot. I am NOT kidding. There is very little documentation, but you can pretty much figure out everything on your own by exploring and noting the "new features".

Now I really need to get to bed and get some sleep, it's almost 1 a.m. here. If I have time tomorrow morning I will try to post a few screenshots I took.

This is going to impact every vendor on the grid, and it's so easy to use that just about anybody with previous viewer experience can learn it in half an hour, an hour tops. It's already readily available to anybody who knows where to look for it, with a blog by the developer no less.

When they polish this and release it into the wild, it's game over. Sorry but it's true.... if you just did what I did you'd believe it too. I simply cannot overestimate how much of a negative impact this will bring to SL.

Charlotte Bartlett

I deleted my first post back on Ann's as you posted same time. Actually the UK police do act, in my experience. I am not going to post the details here but as a victim of something in this area, that is very small fry in the grand scheme of internet stuff - I was supported hugely and they have been active / Linden Lab are aware of it as are the other service websites that were used.

SL in itself - I agree with you, I suspect most would go *wut*.

FBI and infringement example that Stroker used was interesting too in the other thread.

Pamela Galli

This has become a game of taking many, and any, measures that you can, but mainly chasing horses out of the barn. This will take many more resources than LL has hertofore dedicated to the effort. The fee that merchant certification will require should be devoted in part to paying for it.

Even if the threat of proscecution does not scare rippers, an IP ban will. But they have to know that the chances of getting one are good.

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Chantal

Sadly, and although I would LOVE to see more of this happen... it's not likely. Only in cases where relatively large sums of money are concerned. The exception is 'example' cases that are then used - by the police and media - to try and discourage people who steal music, virtual content, etc.

And even then, in many cases of cybercrine, law enforcement has to deal with offender A being in a different country, with different legislation, to victim B. So it's just not going to be a priority. Not until oversight bodies are going to look more kindly on police budgets being used to track down people committing offences such as ripping content in Second Life.

Imagine a busy cybercrime unit (now there's an idea for a competitor to CSI) deciding to do one of these 'example cases'. Sure, they could track down somebody ripping textures from Filter Forge and using them on SL. They could make a sample case of it. They could whack down on that person and it would, of course, hit the news. However, the whole exercise would involve several units, liaison with LL, with the country/countries judiciaries or at least the local police departments in question, warrants, time, gas, salaries...

It might put (some) people off. But at the same time, there would be the whole 'oh, she was just a poor innocent trying to make an extra buck and this is a waste of police resources' outcry.

RandoymRandt

I'd need to know more on your case to believe that you received this kind of service over a few hundred or thousand lindens.

And I'm guessing, with some chuckling, their involvement was with the intent of finding something larger behind you or for some reason beyond just spending any or many human hours for..what...how much money are we talking about?

So now, what approx. percentage of people submitting their content as stolen with LL has gotten any attention from the police, in any country? Evah?

And if it is that common that you get full service police protection over a few pixels, why the Stroker Munch law suit then? This should ALL be taken care of by the police, no? Blue suits to the rescue?

You are an example, but perhaps and likely an exception.
(knowing nothing of your case of course).

But I'm glad to hear it's not a total fail, just a fail 97.89328% of the time.

Chantal

I'm glad the UK helped, and I know that they can and do if the resources are there. When other countries are involved, however, the 'ceiling' for the 'value' of cases is a new thing - I think this year. It wasn't a decision that was appreciated by certain other countries, but sometimes there's no solution but to prioritise.

A lot depends on cybercrime units who are willing to collaborate with their counterparts elsewhere. Most of them are, but then there are things like language barriers, the fact that some offenders are in countries where there are no (effective) laws on IP rights... and what their workload looks like at any given time.

It's great to know that sometimes, things can be done. But extraordinarily frustrating when you know how much MORE could be done by law enforcement if the resources were available... which is a dead horse I tend to flog rather too often

Charlotte Bartlett

Agree on when just SL and pure inworld activity. My case was across multiple media / methods and not limited to infringement.

Kind of a derail the law part, I am still with the policy and reaction from the provider resolution track on the topic of infringement.

RandoymRandt

Look, I'm getting sloppy with my attitude.

Let me add I was chuckling at the idea of cops worldwide taking on every single content theft case from SL. It was a stunning suggestion, to say the least. I'm sure they may be interested in things like kiddie stuff, or terrorism links, etc. But content theft? I cannot fathom, hence, the new case.

Not laughing at Charlotte. My bad for not being clear.

Sansarya

The really paranoid side of me says I'm not leaving my sim again unless I'm wearing the freebie skin I just got at Jewelry Fair and nothing else (it's just an amethyst texture over the whole skin, no private bits on view).

The really sympathetic side says I'm just going to keep buying from my favorite designers (and being afraid to wear anything in case someone on the ThugLyfe client copies everything I'm wearing--and this has happened to me in a store before: Copybot Drahma - SecondSurvivor.com)

The really fed up and disgusted side says, "Don't pay tier tomorrow. Don't pay your premium this month. Log off for good and let it go."

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Stroker Serpentine

Several animators and myself have been chasing the alpha versions of this client for several months now. We have managed to get a few accounts banned, but you all know how that goes.

The interesting aspect is that you can change anything to full perms inside your inventory, but once rezzed the "slam bit" from the server reverts to original owner perms. That may even be changed now.

We worked through an emissary to do some detective work using scripted poseballs. I created unique anims just for this purpose. I sent one set of Modify/No Copy/Trans to our undercover agent. I got back 6 fully copyable sets. Once rezzed they went No Copy. Of course the work around is to put out a demo and slap the copyable version in a networked vendor or a box with "Buy here". That was our original tip-off. We spent thousands of lindens purchasing our own content. Just to have it replaced within moments. We thought it was a bug at first and filed bug reports. Thanks to several conscientious resellers we were able to determine that it was a client.

We have AR'd, filed abuse reports, sent letters, contacted attorneys. The accounts and content show up again and again in a matter of days on new accounts.

I certainly hate to be the harbinger here, but to all animators and scriptors who think that you have been unaffected to date, that is about to change drastically. When you factor in the "Smash and Grab" extortion that Rebel and RH just experienced, the economy is going to be rocked to it's foundation. If you reach any level of success or notariety you will be targeted.

Supposedly this client spoofs the official client and is undetectable. That's what I am being told, I can't confirm it. I suppose it was a matter of time. But it really doesn't help to see statistics like these released knowing about this:

1 Billion Hours, 1 Billion Dollars Served: Second Life Celebrates Major Milestones for Virtual Worlds | Linden Lab

Particularly in light of today's mixed media event:

Dusan Writer’s Metaverse » Linden Lab Takes the Stand: Getting Engaged About Virtual Goods

Note the title. Yes, I am cynical. We spent months chasing this down, documenting it, filing DMCA's and making phone calls. I know one animator who has spent thousands in attorneys fees directly related to this.

The car comparison earlier was accurate. This makes CopyBot look like a papercut. Call me an alarmist, propogandist or conspiracy theorist. I really don't care. This is a game changer. So, now you know.

I'm sure Linden Lab will make it a TOS offense.

RandoymRandt

/ahem

...so....
...what is the BEST case scenario for this situation?

Zii

Even if this viewer will be as easy to access as the official viewer, that doesn't mean every single person is now going to use it without restraint. There are still plenty of us, and plenty of future users, who will continue to pay content creators for their hard work. SL's economy will take a hit, but I'm not sure it will die completely.

It's easy to pirate a game, but the games industry isn't dead yet.