Sooz Pascale

I am. Both sarcasm and hyperbole have their place as components of humor.

I just didn't see very much humorous with Stroker's problem though, which is probably a failure on my part.

My impression is that this is a pretty serious and ongoing problem that a pretty nice felow is experiencing.

I appreciate humor, although I am not a particularly adept practitioner of that art. I just missed, and am still missing, the humorous aspects of Stroker's plight.

Sooz

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Nothing sickens me more than the closed door of a library - Barbara Tuchman

Joshua Nightshade

As I've been friends with Stroker for years and we've spent plenty of time together, even in real life, I'm sure he understands that he has my full support for his plight even while I inject levity into the discussion.

I personally think accusing LL of doing this deliberately makes the discussion murky and could have a preventative effect towards receiving answers, as another one of LL's many track-records is clamming up with a fuck you at the first sign that puts them on the defensive.

Sooz Pascale

Seriously Joshua...I'm basically a nobody in SL. I know ONE Linden and that was purely by accident. I doubt VERY seriously if ANYONE in LL have....ever...heard...of...me and accordingly I think my opinions on anything, including legal issues are hugely irrelevant to any and all of them. I would literally be in slack jawed amazement if anything I said or did caused or precipitated even a slight change of behavior on their part.

To reiterate, IF the script was blacklisted accidently, that is one issue. IF it was done deliberately, meaning the script was knowingly blacklisted, even if the blacklister was unaware of the potential problems that is another issue entirely. If it was deliberately withthe intent to cause him harm or damage, that is yet another issue.

I think he's entitled to answers on this.

Sooz

Joshua Nightshade

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, as I never said he doesn't.

What I've said is, in my cynical experience of dealing with Linden Lab since 2004, that he's highly unlikely to get it. Especially if this was a deliberate act; I'd seriously doubt they say anything at all about it, as announcing the fact that their system is laid open for one employee to be malicious isn't a great thing to advertise.

And again, point being that people have demanded answers from LL on billions of things over the last sevenish years, only to be resolutely ignored.

Stroker Serpentine

I absolutely agree with Josh. To assume it was malicious is preemptive. LL is notorious for making mistakes without any motivation whatsoever. In fact, they could fuck up a winning lotto ticket from what I have seen in the past 5-1/2 years.

I will say this however, as I mentioned in the OP, Garry Linden told me on the phone that the reason the script was blacklisted is because it was being used to grief with. So why a GRID-WIDE blacklist and not a regional return or deletion?

It may also be worth mentioning that a competing animator hired by my ex-partner has been known to solicit "favors" from sympathetic lindens. This person uses the same SexGen scripts, but has made public (Group IM) statements that they were unaffected because they had "fortuitously" upgraded their scripts prior to this. I have personally witnessed lindens over-stepping their authority for this person, even when personal RL threats were being bantered around. ARs went into the "Black Hole". Does that constitute maliciousness?

Something is indeed rotten in Denmark, but I am going to give LL the benefit of incompetence first. I intend to get specific answers from Linden Lab Managers.

@Sooz: Thank you for the thoughtful advice. My attorney is on the beat. I'm not willing to just chalk this up to another "cost of doing business on the grid" write-off just yet. Frank is very good about pointing out when I should keep my mouth shut. An NDA is not an option at this point.

I don't fuel conspiracy or go out of my way to incite drama. I'm not going to be a doormat either. I expect the same professionalism from LL that I conduct my business with. Is that an unrealistic expectation? Given the current flurry of pink slips in S.F., I am proud to say most of our staff has been with us longer than many at the lab.

Sooz Pascale

That is an intelligent course of action. You deserve specific answers and providing them would certainly help LL put out some fires related to this controversy.

I can't claim friendship with you as we have nevermet or spoken, aside from these forums, but I wish you the best on this.

Sooz

Persephone Milk

Stroker, you do not have to thank me for being a friend to you. It is an honor and a privilege to be your friend, and you and your family are a blessing in my life. Though a lot of people know and appreciate you through Second Life, I am fortunate enough to know that your kindness and generosity are not some role play or business policy in a virtual world. You are a class act through-and-through, in real life and beyond. And in truth I have leaned on you just as much over the last few months as I deal with some personal stuff. So thank you as well my friend.

I am really glad you are finally able to talk about this publicly. I know you hesitated at first, because you wanted to give Linden Lab a chance to step up, and you thought they might offer some genuine help. And obviously there are legal ramifications to all of this. In fact I wanted to make a post myself several times, or to at least respond to people on the Eros group, when I knew you were so overwhelmed trying to help your customers. But I held my tongue because I knew that your way was best.

Now that some time has passed, I think that content providers and residents alike do need to hear this story. As we make investments in our business, in Second Life - whether that be purchasing sims, or just taking the time to learn tools and time to create content - we should take stock of the risk involved. We should understand the limits of what Linden Lab can, and cannot do. And we should consider their indifference in the face of problems that they alone cause.

I believe that individually everyone at Linden Lab cares and wants to do the right thing. But there is something systemic that is broken - Linden Lab is often less than the sum of it's parts.

Stroker is right. He was absolutely distraught and heartbroken when this happened. He was ready to throw in the towel and just leave Second Life entirely. I can't say that I blame him for feeling that way. If this had happened to me, coupled with all of the other issues Stroker has to deal with - including continual content theft and trademark infringement (not to mention that some of his less reputable competition has seized upon this opportunity to promote their own business while denigrating his) - I would probably be ready to leave myself.

I am so glad he has found the strength to stay, to continue to support his customers, to explore and create new products, and to demonstrate to all of us how to behave with class and dignity in the face of constant challenge. It is my sincere hope that in the end this strengthens Stroker's brand and reputation. He deserves it.

And finally I would just tap on Philip and Mark's shoulders and ask if they realize how important content like this has been in the growth and success of Second Life. How many times have we seen Philip and Mark on national TV, versus Stroker? Each time a content creator passionately advocates for Second Life - whether that be on the national news, in a magazine article, or at a technical conference at a local college, they are promoting Second Life and helping to bring new residents and content creators in. It would be nice (and very smart) to recognize this, and to do everything in your power to make things easier particularly when you have made a mistake. Somehow, knocking the wind out of Stroker's sails doesn't seem a very smart move.

I am really sorry I missed this thread until just now. I have had my head in other places for the last couple of weeks. Stroker, you are an amazing and inspiring person and you will rise above and beyond these problems. Keep your heart and spirits in the right place my friend

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Huns Valen

Well that's a relief!!!

I bet this is what happened: Linden turns on god powers because he or she is curious about the script in question (possibly using the sexgen at work. Naughty naughty!) and copies the script UUID for some reason. Later that day they try to blacklist a script that actually needs blacklisting, but put in the wrong UUID. I don't buy that someone was using a sexgen animation script to grief. How would that even work?

BTW. When the cards were stolen, I don't think it was Wordpress. I think it was their wiki software. That's a minor point, though. What really does strike me as odd is that they had important customer data in the same database as their wiki, or they were using a MySQL user that had visibility into both. This is really an unusual practice.

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Joshua Nightshade

Actually I think you're right, I think it was the wiki.

Stroker Serpentine

I have in hindsight probably said more than I should have. But, Whinter's hypothesis, while sound, didn't jibe with what I was told directly by Garry Linden. I was told both on the phone and in emails it was a mistake. There are just too many mitigating factors to settle for "Oops".

I am trying to deal with this objectively, but, I am also pissed and emotional about it. Right, wrong or indifferent Second Life is a substantial portion of my income. The fact remains that by offering and encouraging the use of Real Money Trade comes with specific responsibilities and contractual obligations according to U.S. Federal Law. Bits=Bucks.

I am sure that LL has no problem depositing THEIR "Monopoly Money".

I've been accused of "tilting at windmills" before.

Siggy

LL fucks things up all the time - constantly - they even forge ahead with things KNOWN to still be working incorrectly, buggy, and not ready for prime time (the beta grid reports are FULL of these things... wanting to change perms handling to race a still incomplete camera system to live anyone?) - they'll even tell you when you bring something up 'yes this is how it is supposed to work!' then change it down the line so it not only works differently, but half the time fails to work at all.
They change things and race them to live without even testing stuff constantly (hell I just 10 mins ago had to deal with a customer who not only had slides, swimmers, diving boards, but jet skis and a host of other products that weren't mine working.. the culprit? object to object collission turned off! that effected stuff that didn't even use any form of collision! apply impulse not working or move to target? c'mon!)

So although I say - hell yes! Stroker is entitled to at the least some explanation, and I sympathize entirely - deliberate? dunno... I have crazy shit happen all the time... such as my keywords mysteriously vanishing from my land description - SLX descriptions not being saved after the LL takeover... reverting to previous descriptions.. But I prefer not to think of it as some consipiracy.. more incompetance.

I simply don't cred them with enough smarts for conspiracy type decisions.... The boffins in charge of the things that could fuck you over are simply ignorant of how SL works, and how things are done and made in it.. they wade through looking for 'new and shiney' ways to fuck things up.

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And as it was in the beginning, so too shall it be in the end. That bullshit is bullshit, it just goes by different names.

Couldbe Yue

Tilt your heart out and I hope you make them sweat

FlipperPA Peregrine

Don Quixote had nothing in the spirit and imagination department on you, Stroker. Keep fighting the good fight, and bits are not just bits - pun intended!

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Peregrine Salon: Flip & Jenn's thang.

Lianne Marten

Man, you're such an awesome dude, always have been. Sucks that this happened to you, but you've had an amazing reaction to it. Makes me glad to be on the Grid knowing people like you are out there sharing it.

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I hope that whoever you are, you escape this place. I hope that the world turns and that things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that even though I do not know you, even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you... I love you. With all my heart, I love you.

-Valerie

Siggy

'Bits that Byte'

I see a new slogan on the horizon!

Cindy Claveau

The difference in this particular case is that the LL fuckup cost Stroker and his company untold hours and dollars to remedy. In other words, there are damages to pursue and the only way to ascertain for sure (read: penetrate LL's veil of stupidity and secrecy) is to file the aforesaid suit. If nothing else it will allow Stroker to be certain that the problem was caused inadvertently (as Winter suggests) rather than purposely.

The least desirable alternative here is to do nothing. If the Linden feet aren't held to the fire, they can pretend anything they want and won't be called upon to explain their QA methodology -- in that case, nothing will change and it's possible it could happen again.

Worst case scenario? It was an accident, no real culpability to be found and the suit is dropped. Best case? Stroker can regain some of his lost revenue and make sure LL doesn't pull this shit again.

Joshua Nightshade

Not to diminish Stroker's frustration, but this is not the first time LL's fuckups have cost people substantial time, money and effort.

Huns Valen

I can think of one conspiracy they pulled off quite effectively in September 2006.

Joshua Nightshade

?

Cindy Claveau

And they got away with it every time. Maybe if there's some accountability they'd tighten up the ship.

Joshua Nightshade

There won't be any accountability until there's a viable competitor and everyone leaves SL, or a class-action lawsuit forces the issue.

If LL hasn't grown up in six years, this isn't going to change that unless Stroker's willing to sink substantial time and money well past the payout to make a point.

By all means, I'm willing to watch, they certainly deserve it by this point.

Huns Valen

A few people crashed the grid several times in a row, so they banned about 50 or so people, claiming they were all in collusion. Some of them hadn't logged in for months. They never supplied any explanation or justification of how it could possibly take 50 people to do this and to my knowledge none of them were ever unbanned. Some of these people had $100s (US dollars) worth of Linden bucks. The people who actually crashed the grid, who were on throwaway accounts, were back the next day. As near as we can tell, they picked the banned users based on whether they had a rap sheet.

The bannings were orchestrated to start right in the middle of a town hall. It was clearly a PR move designed to make the Lindens look like they are "tough on grief" or whatever.

Joshua Nightshade

I don't think that was a conspiracy, that was a right clear abuse of power and a resolute fuckup.

But yeah, there you go, they lost their sim, that they paid money and tier for, LL didn't give a shit. Some people lost thousands of dollars, their income or SL-companies, LL didn't care. So you guys think that what happened to Stroker was some shocking thing without precedent? They don't care. It would be nice for the straw to finally break their backs, but I don't see it coming soon.

This isn't being unsympathetic, I'm just being realistic.

Winter Ventura

And that's *ALL* it was, a hypothesis. No facts, just one possible logical possibility that didn't involve malicious intent. That's what Sooz asked for "explain a scenario".. the phrase "being used to grief" is interesting.. That script is moddable?

P.S. There's still no "h" in my name.

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Inworld Store: http://slurl.eclectic-randomness.com
Website: http://www.eclectic-randomness.com
Twitter: WinterVentura

Joshua Nightshade

Yeah stop mispelling Winther's name.