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Charlotte Bartlett · 01-04-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlterEgoTrip Svenska

I always suspected that SL buisness would be an attractive place for money laundering, but never really thought about the credit card fraud aspect, but this is only because I only thought my card company got upset because it was a foriegn money transaction.. I can see where they would have to be very careful, but I must say that there was at the time PROBLEMS on the sight for billing and that even the telephones were down at the time I had a problem and needed to speak directly to someone. I was worried I was going to get my account frozen and my access locked out.

Seriously.. but they instead charged to my account and put me in the minus, which in a way was technically the same thing. It seriously limited access to buying and selling anything at the time but was eventually cleared UP. Problem was if it haden't it would have eaten up any earnings I was getting. All because they couldn't bill my card and I couldn't get in touch with them.

I certainly couldn't upload anything for those two weeks! That puts a damper on creating anything for sale inworld. But thankfully it was cleared up, but it did take 10 days to even ANSWER. I invested my money in my membership because I thought after the 6th month, that I was going to stay and do some work here.. that I was used to the problems and that things had become clearly better. And for a while they were, but maybe I was a bit too idealistic especially after seeing what LL has done with the people who did buy land and pay massive amounts of tier.

It sometimes feels like they don't care about the residents nor the content that is created, they care more about what lines their own pockets even at the cost of community, such as the openspace incident which we are generally suffering the maliase from in the market..as well as the moral of the community of people who really wish to use SL as a tool for something more than just a social extention.

I can only hope that they are using that money to improve things rather than wreak havok which has been happening since the openspace issue arose... even if it has nothing to do with "low end" user, me, it has everything to do with a certain amount of faith we had.. faith enough to pay for the service as opposed to treating it as nothing more than a game.

I liken SL sometimes to others who don't understand the idea of virtual worlds as a 3-D web hotel, in which you can create things spacific to the "experience" and even sell them (as you can sell or get clicks on your web page via many different companies and make micro earnings) When I wanted to actually take the plunge and get a membership, one of the things my friends told me is that it was crazy.. to this I asked, "well, how much do you pay for your web domain name?" and it was more per year than an SL membership. So thats why I joined. It made sence.. but I'm getting frightened that soon it won't make sense any longer, but I still have my hopes and I hardy have scratched the surface of my tallents, and I am still in awe discovering the tallents that many people have awakened within SL's contexts.. and various applications.

I'm not ready to jump ship, nor ready to go elsewhere but many others still are... and this although isn't really relavent, SL must be careful to remember that there are other options and that sometimes the only reason people stay somewhere or leave is just due to how they feel they have been treated.

(on the topic... the rumour machines on the whole Simone and Prok issue is thus, it is heresay only because it was NOT Simone who personally responded but Prok in her place.. saying she had permission (but how do we.. as the public really know?? we don't and because of Prok's past, how can we trust her words? all they are is words.. If Simone wasn't treated well, its her place to say so.. and its her place to say, "I didn't like it, I thought I would and I will not pay.." but then not Prok's to publicly put a private conversation "out there" and then insist that LaLa provide proof.. when she did, she points out that it was in violation of privacy...but wait.. WTF??? no wonder I feel weird about this crap)

Attractive on a small scale. For anything serious it wouldn't muster. PayPal also limit accounts to 1700 EUR (not sure of USD equivalent for US account) turnover without major valdiation of identity and cheques are now not provided from LL I understand (or soon will not be).

Can it be gamed? Yes, but it's much easier to launder via more traditional methods than using SL where you can place volume beyond the economy levels of SL. Derivatives with offshore special purpose vehicle companies tend to come into play.

Disclosure: Ex Banker, not Crook! Honest.

**Cristiano** · 01-04-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

Btw, the Whitesnake reference made me pull up "Here I go Again"

Ahhhh, memories of college and drinking.

Ah, memories of Tawny Kitaen rolling around on the hoods of those Jaguars. Thank you for reminding me of that video - it is the only good thing that has come out of this entire mess.

YouTube - Whitesnake - Here I Go Again

**Cristiano** · 01-04-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macphisto Angelus

No shun here.

I like you for being YOU, not what you think about some things.

You made me re-think some of my own attitudes. Why people find it necessary to demonize someone that does not agree with them I will never know.

The concept that Prokofy is demonized because she does not agree is preposterous.

**Cristiano** · 01-04-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Oh and apparently according to Random Commenter that No One's Ever Heard of But Who Suddenly Knows Everything, Adam owns SLU too!

I had to trade something to get Adam to part with the gold for my mount in WoW.

Macphisto Angelus · 01-04-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

The concept that Prokofy is demonized because she does not agree is preposterous.

I think you know what I meant. Don't make me reward an attention whore by taking it to that level.

The one you name was not even on my mind. Some are demonized simply for being assholes.

Macphisto Angelus · 01-05-2009, 02:02 AM

Rethink on my answer, Cris. I wasn't sure if you were joking or not but on re-read I can see where one could assume that is who I meant.

My point was that Io said "shun her". When I said that last bit about demonizing I meant that I don't understand why some people have to make enemies out of someone for a differing opinion.

Hell, we are sharing opinions here. I don't attach what Io said in this thread *to* Io. They were here thoughts.. not every being of her fiber.

With Prok, when you don't agree you are an ass, rabid dog, fucktard, etc etc etc. There is no debate there. It is a lame ass excuse to be an asshole tied up in some BS about "pushing back" and brute force language (whatever the hell that is) is the only thing "those people" understand.

With normal and civilized people when you don't agree that does not have to make you an enemy in need of being struck down. Only those with flimsy arguments have to hide it all in insults and conspiracy.

So, what I meant was there is no shunning needed and I find that those who do shun someone just because of differences in opinion are not something I understand.

And still say that some are shunned just for being assholes, not because of what they believe about something.

Sorry if my first response up there left much to be desired. I have a lot of windows open and lots going on right now but later it occured to me how it could have been perceived.

**Io Zeno** · 01-05-2009, 02:04 AM

CRIS PUT A HORSE HEAD IN MY BED!!!!

Macphisto Angelus · 01-05-2009, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

CRIS PUT A HORSE HEAD IN MY BED!!!!

In SL that could be a form of foreplay.

Just sayin'

**Cristiano** · 01-05-2009, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

CRIS PUT A HORSE HEAD IN MY BED!!!!

LOL I did:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/gif...?u=188&do=list

This was the note with it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

You better sleep with one eye open! Ok, I know it is a horse head cake and it says Happy 40th, Nicky but you get the point!

Macphisto Angelus · 01-05-2009, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

LOL I did:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/gif...?u=188&do=list

you make Furry Jesus cry!

**Io Zeno** · 01-05-2009, 02:10 AM

Prok says this is a tribe but it's really the MOB!!

**Io Zeno** · 01-05-2009, 02:18 AM

fyi, Cris doesn't know this but Nikki is my nickname.

I am calling the appropriate authorities.

**Cristiano** · 01-05-2009, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

fyi, Cris doesn't know this but Nikki is my nickname.

I am calling the appropriate authorities.

They will laugh when you mention 40.

**Io Zeno** · 01-05-2009, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

They will laugh when you mention 40.

Omg you bitch.

/summons demons

Joshua Nightshade · 01-05-2009, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigs

You are missing the point of open source. No OSI approved open source license forbids selling, value added or not.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with my opinions on the issue. I'm not missing anything.

In other news, can anyone else access Prok's site? It's suddenly not working for me anymore.

Joshua Nightshade · 01-05-2009, 06:31 AM

Blah I spoke too soon, it's back.

**Siobhan OFlynn** · 01-05-2009, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

LOL I did:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/gif...?u=188&do=list

This was the note with it:

I'm pissed that you sent Io Clive Owen for Christmas while all I got was a goddamn strawberry daiquirí .

Qie Niangao · 01-05-2009, 07:22 AM

[A day late follow-up]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

Not true - very early on Prokofy said in her comments that Simone was not commenting at the advice of counsel. The C&D letter had not been sent at that time. The C&D letter was a response to the blog entry.

Right. We learn about the "lawyering-up" in this 12/29 comment, where it's pretty clear that Simone got a lawyer to help issue the DMCA takedown notice. The thing is, it seems completely expected that counsel would advise her not to comment: what would Simone stand to gain by saying anything--especially in the eyes of an attorney focused on IP?

As much as it might satisfy our curiousity to know what Simone has to say, I certainly don't think it unprofessional of her not to comment. Quite the opposite, in fact.

It may also overreach to fault her for using Prok as a mouthpiece. I don't know Simone at all, nor how she and Prok interacted in the past, but I'm not even certain that Simone intended to make the matter public by telling Prok about it. To us, that outcome seems completely predictable, but that may be more obvious to an outsider, and in hindsight.

Again, I don't know Simone--she could be a complete scoundrel for all I know--but I just don't see the damning evidence in any of this.

Joshua Nightshade · 01-05-2009, 07:24 AM

For the last time, Prokofy has said repeatedly that she had a phone conversation with Simone before her original post, asked Simone permission to report the story the way she did, and received said permission.

Yes, it is COMPLETELY like Simone to operate this way. She has a track record of it.

Simone and Prokofy are also long time friends.

Jahar Aabye · 01-05-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macphisto Angelus

Rethink on my answer, Cris. I wasn't sure if you were joking or not but on re-read I can see where one could assume that is who I meant.

My point was that Io said "shun her". When I said that last bit about demonizing I meant that I don't understand why some people have to make enemies out of someone for a differing opinion.

Hell, we are sharing opinions here. I don't attach what Io said in this thread *to* Io. They were here thoughts.. not every being of her fiber.

With Prok, when you don't agree you are an ass, rabid dog, fucktard, etc etc etc. There is no debate there. It is a lame ass excuse to be an asshole tied up in some BS about "pushing back" and brute force language (whatever the hell that is) is the only thing "those people" understand.

With normal and civilized people when you don't agree that does not have to make you an enemy in need of being struck down. Only those with flimsy arguments have to hide it all in insults and conspiracy.

So, what I meant was there is no shunning needed and I find that those who do shun someone just because of differences in opinion are not something I understand.

And still say that some are shunned just for being assholes, not because of what they believe about something.

Sorry if my first response up there left much to be desired. I have a lot of windows open and lots going on right now but later it occured to me how it could have been perceived.

And just for the record, when I call someone an idiot on here (happens a lot in PRS), I don't usually actually mean that they are an idiot, just that their post was idiotic.....well, unless it was Evo, then I really do mean it.

Qie Niangao · 01-05-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

For the last time, Prokofy has said repeatedly that she had a phone conversation with Simone before her original post, asked Simone permission to report the story the way she did, and received said permission.

Yes, it is COMPLETELY like Simone to operate this way. She has a track record of it.

Simone and Prokofy are also long time friends.

Fair enough. I know about Prok's report of the phone call with Simone, but the tone and extent of that phone call and all that lead up to it is pretty opaque to me. I have in mind a distinction between permitting going public and intending that from the start, but yeah, in terms of responsibility for the consequences, I suppose that's a distinction without much of a difference. And yeah, because I don't know Simone, I don't really have good reason to think she didn't intend it all along.

Still, as to Simone speaking out now: If I imagine myself as her lawyer presented with a copy of Prok's blog, I'd sure advise her to STFU already without needing to see a cease-and-desist letter first. I mean, wouldn't you?

Joshua Nightshade · 01-05-2009, 09:03 AM

That Simone didn't authorize this is negated by the fact that, if she didn't say "Yes publish this," and Prokofy's words have landed her in potentially equal hot water, it would be pretty easy for her to get out of it by saying "Woah crazy woman, I never told you all of this."

IE, Prok says this is all the words of Simone, and got Simone's permission to post it.

If somehow she didn't, and Simone didn't say this, then Simone could extricate herself from the legal situation by saying so. I'm hard pressed to know any lawyer who would advise their client not to say "No, I never told her to say this, none of this is correct" if that were the case.

Saying Simone didn't tell her to say all of this but is still refusing to speak about it on advise of council, despite the fact that if she said "not my words!" would get her out of the equation is using Prokofy's Razor-- when choosing between two explanations, a simple plausible one or a convoluted conspiracy, choose the latter.

Thus I think it's much more likely that Simone and Prok had this conversation, everything Prok posted is represented exactly as Simone told her, and Simone gave her permission to post it. Simone and Prok have been friends for a while, Simone knows full well how Prok operates, I highly doubt she thought this would be handled any other way.

**Cristiano** · 01-05-2009, 09:14 AM

This picture I found on Snapzilla seems germane to these proceedings.

Snapzilla Snapshot - Akhtar Tigerfish - Law office

Quiplash · 01-06-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

"Joshua's relationship with Adam Zaius isn't some private and personal matter, as he has flaunted it on every possible social media and in public at SLCC and in public forums precisely because he wants to get as much mileage as he can out of being related to one of the FIC leaders of SL, and envisions himself as a kind of First Couple of the Metaverse.

BTW, I predict this relationship won't last through 2009."

Case in point.

Thank you for posting this, Joshua. That one quote says
more about Prok's character than a million blogposts. I can certainly understand why she was banned from SLU. What a nasty woman!

Btw, congrats to you and Adam! I'm so clueless that it took me so long to put 2and2 together :-P

Lo Jacobs · 01-06-2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

That Simone didn't authorize this is negated by the fact that, if she didn't say "Yes publish this," and Prokofy's words have landed her in potentially equal hot water, it would be pretty easy for her to get out of it by saying "Woah crazy woman, I never told you all of this."

IE, Prok says this is all the words of Simone, and got Simone's permission to post it.

If somehow she didn't, and Simone didn't say this, then Simone could extricate herself from the legal situation by saying so. I'm hard pressed to know any lawyer who would advise their client not to say "No, I never told her to say this, none of this is correct" if that were the case.

Saying Simone didn't tell her to say all of this but is still refusing to speak about it on advise of council, despite the fact that if she said "not my words!" would get her out of the equation is using Prokofy's Razor-- when choosing between two explanations, a simple plausible one or a convoluted conspiracy, choose the latter.

Thus I think it's much more likely that Simone and Prok had this conversation, everything Prok posted is represented exactly as Simone told her, and Simone gave her permission to post it. Simone and Prok have been friends for a while, Simone knows full well how Prok operates, I highly doubt she thought this would be handled any other way.

I don't have much stock in this conflict except that I view Simone's lack of response as a hostile act.

She's said some nasty (completely off-the-wall) things about a friend of mine in the past and I cannot give her a pass.

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Posted By	For	Type	Date
Second Thoughts: Linden Lab Corrects Post in LCO Libel Allegation Drama	This thread	Refback	01-04-2009 01:16 PM

01-05-2009, 02:02 AM	#206 (permalink)
Macphisto Angelus Is a bastage! It puts the lotion on it's skin!! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cali Posts: 3,066 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10-21-2004	Rethink on my answer, Cris. I wasn't sure if you were joking or not but on re-read I can see where one could assume that is who I meant. My point was that Io said "shun her". When I said that last bit about demonizing I meant that I don't understand why some people have to make enemies out of someone for a differing opinion. Hell, we are sharing opinions here. I don't attach what Io said in this thread to Io. They were here thoughts.. not every being of her fiber. With Prok, when you don't agree you are an ass, rabid dog, fucktard, etc etc etc. There is no debate there. It is a lame ass excuse to be an asshole tied up in some BS about "pushing back" and brute force language (whatever the hell that is) is the only thing "those people" understand. With normal and civilized people when you don't agree that does not have to make you an enemy in need of being struck down. Only those with flimsy arguments have to hide it all in insults and conspiracy. So, what I meant was there is no shunning needed and I find that those who do shun someone just because of differences in opinion are not something I understand. And still say that some are shunned just for being assholes, not because of what they believe about something. Sorry if my first response up there left much to be desired. I have a lot of windows open and lots going on right now but later it occured to me how it could have been perceived.

01-05-2009, 02:04 AM	#207 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 17,021 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	CRIS PUT A HORSE HEAD IN MY BED!!!!

01-05-2009, 02:10 AM	#211 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 17,021 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	Prok says this is a tribe but it's really the MOB!!

01-05-2009, 02:18 AM	#212 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 17,021 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	fyi, Cris doesn't know this but Nikki is my nickname. I am calling the appropriate authorities.

01-05-2009, 06:31 AM	#216 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	Blah I spoke too soon, it's back.

01-05-2009, 07:24 AM	#219 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	For the last time, Prokofy has said repeatedly that she had a phone conversation with Simone before her original post, asked Simone permission to report the story the way she did, and received said permission. Yes, it is COMPLETELY like Simone to operate this way. She has a track record of it. Simone and Prokofy are also long time friends.

01-05-2009, 09:03 AM	#222 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	That Simone didn't authorize this is negated by the fact that, if she didn't say "Yes publish this," and Prokofy's words have landed her in potentially equal hot water, it would be pretty easy for her to get out of it by saying "Woah crazy woman, I never told you all of this." IE, Prok says this is all the words of Simone, and got Simone's permission to post it. If somehow she didn't, and Simone didn't say this, then Simone could extricate herself from the legal situation by saying so. I'm hard pressed to know any lawyer who would advise their client not to say "No, I never told her to say this, none of this is correct" if that were the case. Saying Simone didn't tell her to say all of this but is still refusing to speak about it on advise of council, despite the fact that if she said "not my words!" would get her out of the equation is using Prokofy's Razor-- when choosing between two explanations, a simple plausible one or a convoluted conspiracy, choose the latter. Thus I think it's much more likely that Simone and Prok had this conversation, everything Prok posted is represented exactly as Simone told her, and Simone gave her permission to post it. Simone and Prok have been friends for a while, Simone knows full well how Prok operates, I highly doubt she thought this would be handled any other way.

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