SLUniverse Forums

Siobhan OFlynn · 10-30-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

There was someone who posted exactly that on the official forums sometime last year. That he was attracted to children and disgusted with himself and acting it out in SL was the only way he'd been able to keep himself from doing it.

I've got as much anger against pedophiles and those who hurt children as anyone, but that heartfelt post more than anything else has stuck with me any time this issue comes up.

While I'm loathe to enter this discussion, I feel like that guy probably needed to get to a therapist instead of acting out on his impulses in SL. If he recognizes his feelings and it makes him hate himself, he needs professional help before the day that he eventually acts on his desire for children. I feel for him, I really do. But if the day comes that he can't help himself and he does physically act out his desires with a child, he will hate himself even more.

I don't want to censor what people do in SL, but pedophilia is a really slippery slope and I don't think him using SL as an outlet was such a good idea. That's just my humble opinion.

Ryozu · 10-30-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

....
I've got as much anger against pedophiles and those who hurt children as anyone, but that heartfelt post more than anything else has stuck with me any time this issue comes up.

Fantasizing about killing someone, doesn't result in anyone dying. People fantasize about killing all the time. We even pretend to kill others.

Thankfully, we do actually prosecute those who commit murder in real life.

Meh, Aimee said it better than I can.

Joshua Nightshade · 10-30-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siobhan OFlynn

While I'm loathe to enter this discussion, I feel like that guy probably needed to get to a therapist instead of acting out on his impulses in SL. If he recognizes his feelings and it makes him hate himself, he needs professional help before the day that he eventually acts on his desire for children. I feel for him, I really do. But if the day comes that he can't help himself and he does physically act out his desires with a child, he will hate himself even more.

I don't want to censor what people do in SL, but pedophilia is a really slippery slope and I don't think him using SL as an outlet was such a good idea. That's just my humble opinion.

He also said that he was in therapy.

But as I posted on SC about this, I don't think therapy is an option.

I don't believe there is a cure for pedophilia. It is a sexual attraction the same as heterosexuality and homosexuality. I know that people involved in gay rights try vehemently to distance these things because those involved in anti-gay rights want to equate them as one in the same, but they are ultimately ingrained traits that can only be altered within certain margins.

Just as there's little success conditioning gay people to be straight and give up same-sex attraction so do most pedophiles who are caught overwhelmingly repeat the behavior.

And I think the slippery slope is in treating pedophilia as a disease but saying "No way, gay people can't change." I don't think either groups can change, personally.

Joshua Nightshade · 10-30-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryozu

Fantasizing about killing someone, doesn't result in anyone dying. People fantasize about killing all the time. We even pretend to kill others.

Thankfully, we do actually prosecute those who commit murder in real life.

Meh, Aimee said it better than I can.

I'm not sure what you meant. I don't think anything two consenting adults roleplaying anything from anal sex to donkey shows is anyone's business but those who choose to consent to participation.

Cindy Claveau · 10-30-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

I don't believe there is a cure for pedophilia. It is a sexual attraction the same as heterosexuality and homosexuality. I know that people involved in gay rights try vehemently to distance these things because those involved in anti-gay rights want to equate them as one in the same, but they are ultimately ingrained traits that can only be altered within certain margins.

Just as there's little success conditioning gay people to be straight and give up same-sex attraction so do most pedophiles who are caught overwhelmingly repeat the behavior.

And I think the slippery slope is in treating pedophilia as a disease but saying "No way, gay people can't change." I don't think either groups can change, personally.

I think I know what you're saying, Joshua, but I'm not real sure - so I'm posting this not to argue with you, but to clarify something on a very powerful topic.

Homosexuality, as far as we can tell, is one form of human sexual preference. Debate is split somewhat on how much is nature and how much is nurture, but most likely it's some combination of the two. Most progressive psychologists will tell you that, regardless of its causes, the most damaging approach to homosexuality is to deny it, attempt to "fix" or "cure" it, or equate it with diseases. Further, it does not by definition involve predation or harm to others, and that's the main point I wanted to emphasize.

On the other hand, pedophilia is a disease. It's most likely based on some kind of childhoose abuse, unlike homosexuality. Pedophiles are rightfully referred to as "predators".

Quote:

pedophilia is truly a disease (and should never be considered normal), while none of the things which make homosexuality a normal variation of human sexuality apply to pedophilia

I agree that pedophila is probably not curable. There have been some mixed results through castration or medication. Psychotherapy has had unremarkable results, but that's not to say it cannot and will not work in all cases. The main complaint seems to be that most therapeutic treatments have been court ordered, and you can't force someone to cooperate fully with therapy - the therapy becomes part of the punishment.

Scientific American: Abnormal Attraction

Quote:

Nevertheless, like other complex psychological traits, pedophilia is thought to stem from a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Many experts believe that disorders of sexual preference emerge from childhood experiences during critical periods in human development. In particular, several studies have confirmed that pedophiles are unusually likely to have been victims of violence and sex abuse as children. In one such study in 2001, researchers at the Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine and University College London reviewed the case notes of 225 male sex abusers and 522 other male patients being treated in a London clinic for sex offenders and sexual deviants. They found that abusers had themselves been victims of sexual violence considerably more often than the patients who had not committed sex abuse, suggesting a victim-to-perpetrator cycle in some men who commit sex crimes.

Joshua Nightshade · 10-30-2007, 07:48 PM

Up until recently, homosexuality was considered a disease as well.

And gay men were also considered predators.

And there's statistically a lot of examples of gay men and women who were also sexually abused as children. It's not to say that anyone who's abused will be gay, or a pedophile, or whatever, but that the same correlation is also there, so I don't think that's a reasonable or relevant distinction. I was abused when I was younger and not only do I not find children attractive but I can't even stand their presences.

As for the predatory aspect, you have a minority group who are taught that their urges are abhorrent from every angle, are treated worse than murderers if caught and convicted and generally have to suppress or hide this aspect of their desires. Psychologically it's terrible and ends up creating a fracturing level of mental stress. Coupled with the fact that their targets are vulnerable and incapable of consenting to what's being done with them and you have someone who, when they do act out their fantasies, generally does so violently and destructively because socially they know that everyone else considers them evil.

Then there is even degrees socially. Up until recently child brides were commonplace. The age of consent being 18 was only recent, and even that varies across state lines. Some countries today still have limits that I personally think are ridiculously young. What is considered too young in the US is normal in other countries and other cultures.

I'm loathe to have any of this be misconstrued or have anyone think I'm excusing pedophilia. The real issue is that of consent, and I won't disagree with anyone that children lack the experience or mental acuity to understand what they're doing. That is the issue for me, but I do believe that the same factors that made me gay are similar to the process that makes you straight or makes someone attracted to having sex with a horse. And when people talk about curing pedophilia it makes me uncomfortable because I think it's really a short step to trying to cure gay people.

Now as for solutions instead... I don't really have one. I don't know what it must be like to live that way, and I'm happy I don't have to.

Thunderclap · 10-30-2007, 08:27 PM

So because you are afraid that your gayness might be 'cured', you are willing to allow pedophiles to continue to rape and molest Children?
WTF. Either you are gay and it cannot be cured, or the people of a century ago are correct and its a disease that is now socially acceptable. Since I believe that gayness is the former (ie: can't be cured) your fear disgusts me. I though you were better than that.

Squeedoo S · 10-30-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderclap

So because you are afraid that your gayness might be 'cured', you are willing to allow pedophiles to continue to rape and molest Children?
WTF. Either you are gay and it cannot be cured, or the people of a century ago are correct and its a disease that is now socially acceptable. Since I believe that gayness is the former (ie: can't be cured) your fear disgusts me. I though you were better than that.

Why are you so ignorant?

Anyways. I'm afraid I'll have to agree with Josh on the "pedophilia is not curable" theory. Man, humans are strange. :\

Joshua Nightshade · 10-30-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderclap

So because you are afraid that your gayness might be 'cured', you are willing to allow pedophiles to continue to rape and molest Children?
WTF. Either you are gay and it cannot be cured, or the people of a century ago are correct and its a disease that is now socially acceptable. Since I believe that gayness is the former (ie: can't be cured) your fear disgusts me. I though you were better than that.

Go fuck yourself with a splintering wooden effigy to an ancient fertility god.

Polymorphous · 10-30-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeedoo S

Why are you so ignorant?

Anyways. I'm afraid I'll have to agree with Josh on the "pedophilia is not curable" theory. Man, humans are strange. :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Go fuck yourself with a splintering wooden effigy to an ancient fertility god.

too

FlipperPA Peregrine · 10-30-2007, 08:51 PM

Please cure me, I'm straight, and it REALLY affects my fashion sense (or lack thereof).

Joshua Nightshade · 10-30-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlipperPA Peregrine

Please cure me, I'm straight, and it REALLY affects my fashion sense (or lack thereof).

It does.

Jen and I have tried to cure you.

If that's not enough proof I'm right and you're stuck there's nothing.

FlipperPA Peregrine · 10-30-2007, 09:02 PM

I've stopped wearing white socks at least! I bought 30 pairs of black Calvin Klein socks so I don't have to match them either, and have started wearing nice shoes every day instead of my beat up black Nikes.

There MIGHT be a sliver of hope for me yet!

Adam Zaius · 10-30-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

It does.

Jen and I have tried to cure you.

If that's not enough proof I'm right and you're stuck there's nothing.

Please. Being fabulous doesn't have any influence whatsoever on fashion sense.

Joshua Nightshade · 10-30-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Zaius

Please. Being fabulous doesn't have any influence whatsoever on fashion sense.

Well, you are certainly an outlier in my thesis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlipperPA Peregrine

I've stopped wearing white socks at least! I bought 30 pairs of black Calvin Klein socks so I don't have to match them either, and have started wearing nice shoes every day instead of my beat up black Nikes.

There MIGHT be a sliver of hope for me yet!

:sniffs: My little boy is growing up.

Ryozu · 10-30-2007, 09:10 PM

Sorry Josh, I misunderstood. We agree on things more than I thought we did.

At any rate, FFS people, being a pedophile does not fucking make someone a child molester.

One can have urges of different kinds and not act on them. This is true for sex in general. This is true for eating. This is true for murder.

Being a pedophile is not vile and wrong. It does not automatically make someone evil. Acting out on those urges does.

Adam Zaius · 10-30-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Well, you are certainly an outlier in my thesis.

Mecha Dinosaur · 10-31-2007, 12:33 AM

I was looking at those pictures and thought.. damn those are pretty crappy builds. Must have a low prim limit.

Also it's been ages since I've seen an ageplay thread.

Benjamin Noble · 10-31-2007, 01:16 AM

From a legal perspective, in the U.S., virtual kiddie porn is not only fine, it's got a Supreme Court stamp of approval. So you either hate free speech or you're a pedo-symp. Everyone comes out a winner in that debate.

Aimee Weber · 10-31-2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlipperPA Peregrine

I've stopped wearing white socks at least! I bought 30 pairs of black Calvin Klein socks so I don't have to match them either, and have started wearing nice shoes every day instead of my beat up black Nikes.

fag.

KIDDING!!

Clancy Sullivan · 10-31-2007, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderclap

So because you are afraid that your gayness might be 'cured', you are willing to allow pedophiles to continue to rape and molest Children?
WTF. Either you are gay and it cannot be cured, or the people of a century ago are correct and its a disease that is now socially acceptable. Since I believe that gayness is the former (ie: can't be cured) your fear disgusts me. I though you were better than that.

Fag!

I mean it!

10-30-2007, 08:51 PM	#36 (permalink)
FlipperPA Peregrine Evil Incarnate! Recursion is beautiful! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 5,204 SL Join Date: 2003-11-14 Business: Peregrine Salon SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood:	Please cure me, I'm straight, and it REALLY affects my fashion sense (or lack thereof). __________________ Peregrine Salon: Flip & Jenn's thang.

10-30-2007, 07:48 PM	#31 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 22,229 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	Up until recently, homosexuality was considered a disease as well. And gay men were also considered predators. And there's statistically a lot of examples of gay men and women who were also sexually abused as children. It's not to say that anyone who's abused will be gay, or a pedophile, or whatever, but that the same correlation is also there, so I don't think that's a reasonable or relevant distinction. I was abused when I was younger and not only do I not find children attractive but I can't even stand their presences. As for the predatory aspect, you have a minority group who are taught that their urges are abhorrent from every angle, are treated worse than murderers if caught and convicted and generally have to suppress or hide this aspect of their desires. Psychologically it's terrible and ends up creating a fracturing level of mental stress. Coupled with the fact that their targets are vulnerable and incapable of consenting to what's being done with them and you have someone who, when they do act out their fantasies, generally does so violently and destructively because socially they know that everyone else considers them evil. Then there is even degrees socially. Up until recently child brides were commonplace. The age of consent being 18 was only recent, and even that varies across state lines. Some countries today still have limits that I personally think are ridiculously young. What is considered too young in the US is normal in other countries and other cultures. I'm loathe to have any of this be misconstrued or have anyone think I'm excusing pedophilia. The real issue is that of consent, and I won't disagree with anyone that children lack the experience or mental acuity to understand what they're doing. That is the issue for me, but I do believe that the same factors that made me gay are similar to the process that makes you straight or makes someone attracted to having sex with a horse. And when people talk about curing pedophilia it makes me uncomfortable because I think it's really a short step to trying to cure gay people. Now as for solutions instead... I don't really have one. I don't know what it must be like to live that way, and I'm happy I don't have to.

10-30-2007, 08:27 PM	#32 (permalink)
Thunderclap Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tulsa Posts: 375 SL Join Date: Spetember 2006 My Mood:	So because you are afraid that your gayness might be 'cured', you are willing to allow pedophiles to continue to rape and molest Children? WTF. Either you are gay and it cannot be cured, or the people of a century ago are correct and its a disease that is now socially acceptable. Since I believe that gayness is the former (ie: can't be cured) your fear disgusts me. I though you were better than that.

10-30-2007, 09:02 PM	#38 (permalink)
FlipperPA Peregrine Evil Incarnate! Recursion is beautiful! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 5,204 SL Join Date: 2003-11-14 Business: Peregrine Salon SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood:	I've stopped wearing white socks at least! I bought 30 pairs of black Calvin Klein socks so I don't have to match them either, and have started wearing nice shoes every day instead of my beat up black Nikes. There MIGHT be a sliver of hope for me yet!

10-30-2007, 09:10 PM	#41 (permalink)
Ryozu Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 245	Sorry Josh, I misunderstood. We agree on things more than I thought we did. At any rate, FFS people, being a pedophile does not fucking make someone a child molester. One can have urges of different kinds and not act on them. This is true for sex in general. This is true for eating. This is true for murder. Being a pedophile is not vile and wrong. It does not automatically make someone evil. Acting out on those urges does.

10-31-2007, 12:33 AM	#43 (permalink)
Mecha Dinosaur CS Violator +33 Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 925 SL Join Date: 6/13/2006 Blog Entries: 2 SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood:	I was looking at those pictures and thought.. damn those are pretty crappy builds. Must have a low prim limit. Also it's been ages since I've seen an ageplay thread.

10-31-2007, 01:16 AM	#44 (permalink)
Benjamin Noble Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 18	From a legal perspective, in the U.S., virtual kiddie porn is not only fine, it's got a Supreme Court stamp of approval. So you either hate free speech or you're a pedo-symp. Everyone comes out a winner in that debate.