Surreal

I've disagreed with Cindy now.
No for me.

Wildefire Walcott

Think about it this way:

The blog post said that some folks were abusing openspaces, causing an extra strain on the system. In response, LL has decided to penalize ALL openspace owners, without even really promising to address the root problems. This is how they do things.

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Ran Garrigus

The failure for all employees to follow company protocol is to some degree a failure in the company, especially when it's a customer service-related issue. Customer service is the last place you want someone flying off the handle, since they are in many ways the public face of the company.

So, I'll stand by "the Lindens" on this, regardless of whether it was one employee's mistake or not. It's not like this is the only example of inconsistent policy at the individual employee level at LL.

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• Old Fashioned -- Occasional SL fashion reviews.

Ann Launay

What 'monitoring and correcting'? Sarah contacted them...it's not like the ban was removed by some magical Linden oversight committee.

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Jahar Aabye

Well, you could also argue that this is why it wasn't as dumb when I said it


I'd argue that the fact that she has so much invested in SL, and has so much more to lose than many people from discplinary actions ought to have been an even greater incentive towards acting in a professional manner.

So I would argue that this underscores the inherent stupidity of her actions. Linden Labs provides a service that is essential for her business. To this extent, they are more like a business partner than a service provider, because they are not one of several possible options but rather a company on which her business depends. Acting in a rude and unprofessional (not to mention immature) manner towards this company was not a very wise move. While Linden Labs may have overreacted in their punishment, that does not change the fact that her actions were clearly not acceptable.

Like I said earlier, the more money is involved in a business transaction, the greater the responsibility to act in a professional manner.

Carter-Madhu

The ban was appealed, the appeal was promptly ruled upon, and the ban was lifted.

Instant sua sponte review of every single action taken by a lower-lever service rep is really not feasible, for LL or anyone else. If prompt, favorable response to an appeal isn't considered a satisfactory response to a bad action by a lower-level employee, I can't imagine what would be.

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Cindy Claveau

That's the professional way to handle it, I agree.

My reps aren't told they have to take it, though. They're free to hang up on abusive customers.

But in a lot of cases, an angry customer CAN be calmed down if the rep offers to listen to their complaint and work with them to resolve it. Most of the time, customer anger is nothing more than an expression of their feelings of helplessness. If you can make them feel like you care and listen, a lot of that feeling goes away. On that point, LL blew it big time with Sarah no matter how she expressed her anger.

There's always exceptions, of course. We have one customer who is perpetually late on their bill. They would call us every month, threatening and unreasonably angry that we sent a late notice threatening to disconnect service. It took a visit by one of our field CAs (customer advisors) to discover that this customer was suffering from schizophrenia and sometimes didn't take their meds. The CA went over and above their duty by arranging for a local agency to assist the customer, but it eventually reduced the number of incidents and our reps now know that this customer isn't to be argued with when it happens again.

I wouldn't expect other companies to go to those lengths, but I do think it points out what I meant about customers bringing their own issues and methods of anger management (or lack thereof) to every situation. A successful company will take that into consideration in the way they handle complaints.

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Sometimes, "I hit it with my axe" is the best solution.

Ann Launay

Sarah loves Second Life and had a passionate response to the damage LL seems intent on doing to the platform and its customer base. No matter how much money is involved, she's still human, still fallible, and any decent customer service rep should have recognized that. A warning would have been fair, a 3-day suspension was not.

It's all well and good to sit about dissecting what she did or didn't do after the fact, but you aren't her and you weren't affected by the announcement in the same way she was. Calling her actions 'dumb' and 'stupid' just illustrates your utter lack of empathy.

Noirran

I've worked in CS at an MMO, if you can't take a "fuck you" from a pissed off customer you need to find another line of work. Buncha sissies.

Wildefire Walcott

Also, regardless of whether you would personally have said what Sarah did if you were in her situation, please consider this: She's a customer who pays LL many thousands of USD every month, and the fact that she was banned without warning tells me the banning (without any previous warning) was a vindictive act.

I've worked some very shitty retail jobs before and I've been told to fuck off by customers who were TRYING TO RIP US OFF or who hadn't paid us more than $20 probably in the past year- and if I had acted vindictively against ANY of them I would have lost my job. Bitch-slapping a multi-thousand dollar customer is simply not something you do, especially not without fair warning.

Isadora Graves

I'm just coming into this, and trying to catch up on the pages + pages of reading. My thoughts thus far are that this was just downright shitty.

I have to agree with everyone that "the customer is always right" should apply here. I work in I.T., which includes being an over-the-phone and/or walk-in Help Desk. There is a lot of abuse in this field because you are dealing with people that are already upset/angry/frustrated that their computers aren't working and they haven't been able to fix the problem themselves. Some think you are talking down to them, some think you're just stupid and don't know what you're doing...some have questioned my ability to help them simply because I am female (seriously).

I have never refused to help anyone because they were angry; in other words, banning her for expressing her ire and opinion was wrong. (Even a warning would've been shitty, but it'd of been better than a 3-day ban!)

Banning Sarah was wrong; no ifs, ands, or buts about it - regardless of how she did act and/or should have acted. She was upset and angry, and, frankly, had every right to be. Perhaps she shouldn't have cursed and, blah blah, yeah, yeah - screw that. She said what A LOT of people are feeling and wish they could say. If LL doesn't like the negative feedback, perhaps they should take stock of the effects of the changes they are bomb dropping onto their clients and loyal investors. Hats off, Sarah.

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The metaverse through my eyes: Izzyisms. | Mah fashion blog: Izzy Chic.

Jahar Aabye

I'd say it illustrates my expectations of professionalism. Wildefire mentions that she pays Linden Labs thousands of USD per month. The flip side of that is that she receives thousands of dollars worth of services from Linden Labs each month, and generates thousands of dollars of USD in gross revenues each month thanks to the services provided by Linden Labs.

This actually makes her actions seem far worse, not better. I would have a greater expectation of professionalism from her given these facts, and given the fact that she is well known as a respectable, successful businesswoman and an SLCC laureate. You need to understand where I'm coming from in terms of business professionalism.

Let me give you an example from my RL job experience, since a few others have chimed in as well. At my old job, we had to deal with a new fee schedule that meant that our members were going to lose, collectively, tens of millions of dollars. Not Linden Dollars. US Dollars. It was entirely possible that some of our members, to whom I was professionally responsible as their representative, advocate, and analyst, might have to give up their practice.

I did not once consider calling up those responsible and shouting FUCK YOU. When we had conference calls to discuss how best to handle the situation, not one of my counterparts used language like that either. Even in our private discussions within my office with co-workers, we did not say things like that.

Believe me, we were very frustrated. Words cannot describe what that experience was like.

But we handled it in a professional manner. This is what I am talking about. If you want Linden Labs to treat you in a professional manner, you must act like a professional. If your response is to act like a sulking teenager, don't be surprised when they "ground" you for a few days.

Jahar Aabye

Actually, looking back at the figures, the losses would probably have totalled around USD $130 million.

I am not exaggerating nor am I just trying to "sound cool." Anyone who wishes may PM me for a slightly more detailed account. Understand that I have to be moderately vague in public chat about it.

Cindy Claveau

I've spent the last 2 months re-evaluating my SL participation. I ended up selling my store parcel, and some friends and I sold our 1/4 mainland sim to split an OpenSpace.

I had cut my monthly expense for SL in half that way. Granted, I'm not a major land owner and I don't have a big investment in SL land, but this effects the little guy too - I could not justify spending $50 a month on an entertainment that I rarely ever use any more. And now after cutting that expense in half, LL is bumping their prices so drastically I'm right back to where I was before.

I'm not about to go back to mainland land with annoying neighbors. I'm not keen on spending this much money for something I really don't enjoy that much any more. All this price increase is going to do is cull the usership and a lot of us who were halfway out the door already are going to shut it behind us.

Surreal

Hey.. I'm all for Linden Lab.

But I'm also for a civil society.

Surreal

Maybe it's time for another Open Letter to the people in LL who actually set policy, pointing out how much trust and goodwill they are flushing along with the $$. I'd sign it. I had an Open Sim purchase scheduled for Jan 2009 which is now scrapped.

They have a technical issue that they are trying to address via the billing department - FAIL.

Noirran

Using your own example, you were not the one, personally, losing money. And yes Sarah is paying LL thousands of USD for a service which they are marginally providing. She had a reaction from a company she pays good money to, that they are unable to provide the service they sold and advertised and are going to jack up the fees costing her thousands of dollars in lost revenue. Banning her for reacting with a heart felt "fuck you LL" after hearing the news is bad business and shitty CS.

Jahar Aabye

Even I, who have been defending LL's actions, am going to be the first to point out that the open letter is gonna get directed straight to the trash bin. Linden Labs isn't going to care about an open letter.


Part of me wants to joke about it having a greater chance of being successful than if their tech department were handling it

But in all seriousness, they're finding that as OpenSpace sims are being used more and more, they're also being used in manners that are far different than initially intended. They could go around repossessing OpenSpace sims when they use too many resources, but I think we can all agree that doing so would be unlikely to be successful, would generate a lot more ill will, and would consume large amounts of time and money. Instead, Linden Labs chose to increase the tier fees to better reflect the real costs of maintaining these sims given the uses to which they are being put.

Eirik

And the home I'm living in is in very much the same situation as yours. Except that I don't pay my share Izzy and Rosie pay for it and just use Rosie as my sugar mamma. (Though I did pay for several pieces of furniture, decoration and plants on our half of the sim - all that's useless now)

As I said, was still saving to afford my own. Just got good news from the job market ... soon I'm making good money finally. And then this news from LL. I know for sure I'm not going to buy mine now. I'd be crazy to spend 125 US$ a month on an MMO I don't even enjoy that much anymore and just play to be with my friends.

The way I hear it, Rosadora sim will be abandoned as well. Shucks. Spending time there was pretty much the only thing in SL I still enjoyed and was happy with. It was a place to get away from blingtards, flashing ad towers, and all the other bullshit that is SL.

We had SOME scripts, but nothing heavy ... in fact, I wouldn't mind (much) if LL simply said ' from now on OpenSpace sims will be locked to "all scripts disabled" ... ok, it'd mean no more jetskiing ... but it would be a small price to pay to keep OUR HOME.

And let me make this very clear. If our mayor in RL decides to take away our RL home because of "eminent domain" or whatever it's called in English - you can be assured I'd spend the rest of my life imprisoned for murder.

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Isadora Graves

Jahar, I understand what you are saying and - to an extent - I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make.

That said, I believe the real argument here, and that I think people are disagreeing with you on, is that Sarah should not have been banned. Yes, perhaps, she was "unprofessional" - however, her emotional moment did not warrant a 3-day ban.

Linden Labs, in my opinion, was far more unprofessional in this instance; because it appears they banned her for simply having an opinion they did not like. If everyone cut off, banned, or dropped their customers or even investors because they spoke out against them, this would be a sorry world indeed. This whole instance makes LL seem very despotic and that is what has everyone rankled.

Cindy Claveau

Because the last one did so much good?

If nothing else, Open Letter 1 demonstrated for once and all that LL doesn't listen to customers. That was about the point that I finally gave up even thinking it was worth the try.

Tary Allen

k, this is about 9 pages and just browsed them but my 2 cents:

- LL decided to change the rules overnight and increase tier in openspaces, peopel who have them are obvious upset and angry

- one of those people said Fuck you, so they applied a 3 day ban,

- they've come to their sences and lifted the ban

One point here is that LL is not Sarah boss or parent to "ground her for 3 days" for using the fuck word, an advert in Im should be enough.

If they start banning people for saing fuck you in open chat or group Im I think that by the end of the week the grid will have about 3000 logs.

And yes, I think they should consider who they are banning, Sarah is an honest land owner, she runs a freebie place to help people, and has proved beyond doubt that she cares about SL.

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"This is an important announcement. This is flight 121 to Los Angeles. If your travel plans today do not include Los Angeles, now would be a perfect time to disembark."
Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001), "So Long and Thanks For All The Fish"

Jahar Aabye

No they did not. They banned her for using explicit language in an abusive manner directed at a Linden Labs employee in concierge group chat. It was not about expressing an opinion, it was about choosing....yes, I said choosing...to do so in an egregiously unprofessional and unacceptable manner.

I would imagine that there were a number of other people in that chat, yes? And I am almost certain that many of them similarly disliked the new policy, yes? And since it was a chat, after all, I am fairly sure that several of them may have said, in the chat, something to the effect of "I dislike this policy, it will hurt my business, please don't implement it."

Were any of these people given disciplinary actions by Linden Labs?

If they were, then I suppose this is a chilling example of Linden Labs punishing people for disagreeing with them. If they weren't, then maybe....just maybe....Sarah made a big mistake (we're all human, after all), and needs to accept that she acted inappropriately and apologize. Whether the disciplinary action by LL was extreme or not, it does not absolve her of the need to accept responsibility for her actions.

Brenda Connolly

And people like Sarah and many others here are the types of customers LL is really putting the screws to. The ones who really do love SL for all it's promises, bothe realized and broken. They make it a worthwhile place, either by their creations, provided services, or just going out of their way to be helpful The people who helped get SL off the ground, who built it up so LL could open the gates and let in the crowds, and who kept SL going when it looked like that action would cause SL to collapse. Yet they continually push those people to the curb, and will continue to do so as those people are no longer important.

Someone referred to SL as Sarah's business partner. That couldn't be further from the truth. A partenership is a 2 way street, both sides working together in a shared interest. LL has only one interest, and we are not part of it.

Xiomara Mendes

In the four years I've worked in my department, I've seen my company block three online customer accounts. Three. Here's what they did to get blocked:

- One threatened an employee via e-mail with "I know where you work and you'd better watch out."

- Another sent us approximately 30 e-mails full of racial slurs because he was upset over an underwriting decison.

- The third was a woman we were going back and forth regarding a complicated billing issue. Every e-mail she sent started with the phrase "I hope you stupid assholes get it right this time."

That's the type of behavior which would warrant a suspension. Not a simple "fuck you". We're taught to ignore that and just get to the root of the problem. Sarah's suspension is poor customer service, plain and simple.

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NOBODY IN THIS HOUSE ORDERED ANY MILLIPEDES.