Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

So... if I've been around for awhile and people like me, then I have license to say anything I want... provided I target some one who is newer than myself - and most importantly, less liked?

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

So... if I've been around for awhile and people like me, then I have license to say anything I want... provided I target some one who is newer than myself - and most importantly, less liked?

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Maybe we could all act with restraint and civility when someone new sticks their foot in it.

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

provided I target some one who is newer than myself - and most importantly, less liked?

Originally Posted by Daman

Shit. I'm fucked. Only three people here like me .. and one of them only because he's gay and trying to get into my pants ... and he got banned. That leaves only two

Guess that leaves me with little freedom to attack.

Originally Posted by Beebo Brink

Socially speaking, you probably do. It doesn't make it right, or fair, or morally defensible on an idealistic plane, but the group will tolerate it. You don't have the "right" to do it, but by your own words, you have the "license" to get away with it in terms of group dynamics.

So one of these days if you're in a shitty mood, your meds are off, your dog died, your lover torched your apartment, or the Mets lost, it's entirely possibly you could lose your temper and ream out some relative newcomer and the group will stand by and watch. If you're especially vicious, they may shuffle their feet uneasily or leave the thread, but you are less likely to be reprimanded or opposed than someone else and the newcomer is far less likely to have a champion.

This is is how primate groups maintain their coherence: Loyalty is rewarded, group membership earns its privileges. We call it unfair, but it is very pragmatic in the long term. Humans have survived in groups, and elevating idealistic notions of fairness above these underlying networks of an emotional barter system is a very hard sell.

Originally Posted by Beebo Brink

Socially speaking, you probably do. It doesn't make it right, or fair, or morally defensible on an idealistic plane, but the group will tolerate it. You don't have the "right" to do it, but by your own words, you have the "license" to get away with it in terms of group dynamics.

So one of these days if you're in a shitty mood, your meds are off, your dog died, your lover torched your apartment, or the Mets lost, it's entirely possibly you could lose your temper and ream out some relative newcomer and the group will stand by and watch. If you're especially vicious, they may shuffle their feet uneasily or leave the thread, but you are less likely to be reprimanded or opposed than someone else and the newcomer is far less likely to have a champion.

This is is how primate groups maintain their coherence: Loyalty is rewarded, group membership earns its privileges. We call it unfair, but it is very pragmatic in the long term. Humans have survived in groups, and elevating idealistic notions of fairness above these underlying networks of an emotional barter system is a very hard sell.

Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale

No, for the following reasons:

1. It could potentially be embarassing to to the other person, who has always been nice to me and doesn't deserve unsolicited embarassment;

2. It would just further derail an important, interesting and entertaining thread;

3. I'm quite sure the feelings are unreciprocated.

I should have never posted it. I don't quite know what got into me, perhaps temporary insanity?

Sooz

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Sorry to be tedious , but although I agree up to a point, we're not apes in a tree flinging poo with no recourse to reason.

We have the ability to aim for the best we can be, not the worst.

Originally Posted by Beebo Brink

So one of these days if you're in a shitty mood, your meds are off, your dog died, your lover torched your apartment, or the Mets lost........

Originally Posted by Psyke Phaeton

Fuck you SLU.


P.S. Can someone tell me if that is a credit or debit in my SLU social account??

Originally Posted by Ann Launay

I agree in theory, but it's unlikely to happen in practice. Some people just rub you the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Clive Owen

Is this why most of the guys here are hostile towards me?
Thankfully, the ladies are a lot more accepting of me, generally.

Originally Posted by Beebo Brink

Tsk, tsk, and I was so very specific about calling the issue tedious, not the people who raised it. I have fed you mushrooms and would never call you tedious.

We ARE apes, and we fling poo all the time. I'm not advocating that we stop trying to be reasonable, rational beings -- I strive to do better all the time -- but there's no surprise when we're not. It's the indignant surprise, rather than the disapproval, that I find disingenous.

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone here has expressed anything but amazement and disbelief that LL banned you. I think the consensus is that it was complete asshatery, and way out of proportion to a TOS violation.

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Why is it unlikely to happen in practice? I see people every day on SLU who hold very divergent and sometimes even hostile points of view discoursing with only a moderate amount of bloodshed.

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

I'm actually in complete agreement with Beebo on this. I'd go farther and say that the average human probably isn't that much more intelligent than the average chimp....

Originally Posted by Brenda Connolly

Most of those guys will also mutter about you being Gay, but we are more than willing to put that myth to rest. Just give a call.

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Seriously though. I've lost my temper... who hasn't? But if I don't apologize the next day, then I lose some of that respect, and that's as it should be, or we are just a pack of snarling dogs, pulling down the weaker.

Originally Posted by Brenda Connolly

Most of those guys will also mutter about you being Gay...

Originally Posted by Beebo Brink

At the risk (which I run repeatedly) of being unbearably pedantic, no group member can make unlimited withdrawals. The more you take, and the less you give, the weaker your position in the group. Apologizing, regaining respect, are ways of strengthening the overall group dynamic, which is why those altruistic behaviors can even exist.

But don't kid yourself that we're any different than a pack of snarling dogs. Human or canine, we only protect the weak when we can afford to do so.

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

I'd say it illustrates my expectations of professionalism. Wildefire mentions that she pays Linden Labs thousands of USD per month. The flip side of that is that she receives thousands of dollars worth of services from Linden Labs each month, and generates thousands of dollars of USD in gross revenues each month thanks to the services provided by Linden Labs.

This actually makes her actions seem far worse, not better. I would have a greater expectation of professionalism from her given these facts, and given the fact that she is well known as a respectable, successful businesswoman and an SLCC laureate. You need to understand where I'm coming from in terms of business professionalism.

Let me give you an example from my RL job experience, since a few others have chimed in as well. At my old job, we had to deal with a new fee schedule that meant that our members were going to lose, collectively, tens of millions of dollars. Not Linden Dollars. US Dollars. It was entirely possible that some of our members, to whom I was professionally responsible as their representative, advocate, and analyst, might have to give up their practice.

I did not once consider calling up those responsible and shouting FUCK YOU. When we had conference calls to discuss how best to handle the situation, not one of my counterparts used language like that either. Even in our private discussions within my office with co-workers, we did not say things like that.

Believe me, we were very frustrated. Words cannot describe what that experience was like.

But we handled it in a professional manner. This is what I am talking about. If you want Linden Labs to treat you in a professional manner, you must act like a professional. If your response is to act like a sulking teenager, don't be surprised when they "ground" you for a few days.

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

No they did not. They banned her for using explicit language in an abusive manner directed at a Linden Labs employee in concierge group chat. It was not about expressing an opinion, it was about choosing....yes, I said choosing...to do so in an egregiously unprofessional and unacceptable manner.

I would imagine that there were a number of other people in that chat, yes? And I am almost certain that many of them similarly disliked the new policy, yes? And since it was a chat, after all, I am fairly sure that several of them may have said, in the chat, something to the effect of "I dislike this policy, it will hurt my business, please don't implement it."

Were any of these people given disciplinary actions by Linden Labs?

If they were, then I suppose this is a chilling example of Linden Labs punishing people for disagreeing with them. If they weren't, then maybe....just maybe....Sarah made a big mistake (we're all human, after all), and needs to accept that she acted inappropriately and apologize. Whether the disciplinary action by LL was extreme or not, it does not absolve her of the need to accept responsibility for her actions.