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Cocoanut Koala · 10-28-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

Sure, swearing at the cable company usually won't terminate a contract. Swearing at a major business partner, on the other hand, often will.

Wait - LL is our major business partner?

You see this as two business partners having a tiff or something?

You don't agree with all the other analogies made so far, about, say, a customer and their cable company, or a customer and their bank, etc.?

coco

Jahar Aabye · 10-28-2008, 02:18 PM

Sooz put it more diplomatically than I could...wish there was an "agree" button under her post.

Trout Recreant · 10-28-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale

Sarah, I think you know how much I admire, respect, and even love you. Let me offer just a bit of advice, from a friend? Your anger was certainly justified. However, in any business type meeting, even in a live chat environment, if you noticeably lose your temper, you have lost the argument, 90 - 95% of the time. Your expression of anger in somewhat colorful Anglo Saxon terms is certainly understandable but it didn't do you any good. It caused a considerable amount of anguish and inconvenience on your part, even with the revering of the ban.

Okay, moving on here. You DO have some power. You are a prominent person in SL, one of the people who LL shamelessy uses to plug their product and you are, I believe, pretty much loved and repected. You also, I assume, pay those retarded little snots large amounts of money every month, IN A FALTERING WORLD WIDE ECONOMY no less. In other words, they know who you are, when in fact most of us here, me inculded, would merit a blank stare and "Who the heck is that?" if our names came up in conversation.

Here is my advice and this often, but not always works. Go up the food chain. In your case I recommend writing a letter, a detailed letter, using clear, concise yet powerful and business like language to express [a] your dismay and disagreement with their current land policies along with the reasons upon which you base your opinion; and [b] your displeasure over the way your honest and spontaneous expression of....disquietude was mishandled by an over zealous LL employee. Go as high as you think you can, perhaps to Robin Harper or above.

If you would like help in drafting such a letter, I would consider an honor to assist you. There are so many very fun, stilted and business like ways to say "Fuck you." Basically, hon, any one can say "fuck you." You could say instead that "your ideas and proposals vis a vis' this issue are ill considered and seem completely without merit. This proposal will do grave damage to severl SL businesses who have cheerfully supported both SL and LL in the past. Your proposed actions will not only hurt and financially damage supporters of SL and LL, but will ultimately cost LL significant amounts of hard US dollars as well as cost SL an untold amount of prestige. You are embarking on an unwise course, fraught with peril." Get it?

Not easy to type in a chat

love,

Sooz
Sooz

Excellent idea! Can I help? I write a brutal "F-you" letter. It's one of my specialties.

Eirik · 10-28-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

Well that is true but that is not the case now. In fact, if business is going to dry up it will happen now rather than later given the economy.

Which is kinda why treating your paying clients like shit is a stupid idea on LL's part as well.

True. I actually do agree with you.

I guess the reason I was still argueing with you is that I'm misinterpreting things and all that stuff and currently am too stuck in the doom and gloom. I'm not thinking clear.

Cocoanut Koala · 10-28-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Launay

No, that means she was cursing in front of a large number of people...Teh Horror! She didn't verbally abuse anyone and I imagine quite a few of them heartily agreed with her.

Haha! Not only in front of a large number of people, but in front of a large number of LL RESIDENTS! OMG! We know how sensitive they are! A regular church circle, they are.

coco

Sooz Pascale · 10-28-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah Nerd

I'm nothing to LL, and what I pay them is small fries. I have no pull with them or special place in there heart. I've just spent a lot of time here and have worked with a lot of people so I have an amazing groups of friends and people that stick up for me. I think I need to stop saying I Love Second Life so much, and Start saying I love the people of Second Life more.

I bet youhave more pull than you think.

Sooz

Cindy Claveau · 10-28-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale

If you would like help in drafting such a letter, I would consider an honor to assist you. There are so many very fun, stilted and business like ways to say "Fuck you." Basically, hon, any one can say "fuck you." You could say instead that "your ideas and proposals vis a vis' this issue are ill considered and seem completely without merit. This proposal will do grave damage to severl SL businesses who have cheerfully supported both SL and LL in the past. Your proposed actions will not only hurt and financially damage supporters of SL and LL, but will ultimately cost LL significant amounts of hard US dollars as well as cost SL an untold amount of prestige. You are embarking on an unwise course, fraught with peril." Get it?

Not easy to type in a chat

Don't forget the part about how the Lab has enjoyed a monopoly for the last 5 years on a very unique product, but that technology and competition are going to change that landscape soon - it's already started to change. If they want to continue the remarkable success of Second Life, poor customer service and 67% price increases are not the way to do it.

Then later, in a private moment alone with your computer, write a very personal letter addressed only to yourself. No one else will see it, especially the Lindens. In it, you can vent your spleen and let them know what moronic, ass-sucking twatwaffle shitbags they really are.

Then delete the letter. You'll feel better *sweet smile*

On second thought, if you write that personal letter, please post it here

**Sarah Nerd** · 10-28-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

Consider it a learning experience. This was their way of saying "fuck you" right back.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Must have been a false alarm when I felt they said "fuck you"to me when they flooded the market with mainland (several times), or devalued all of my sims months after I bought a ton of them for $1675, or when they started open spaces causing my full estates to go bare. And last night, I thought they said fuck you to me first when they raised my open space tier $67% making them impossible to effectively be rented out, or competitive with other types of land. Silly me, I thought I was saying fuck you back to them, didn't realize it was the other way around. But I guess I should just take your word since I'm just stupid.

MoxZ Mokeev · 10-28-2008, 02:23 PM

Across the street LL is getting told "fuck you" in so many different ways it's hilarious. The entire forum is having a "fuck you fest".

I've even seen one post that says, "What Sarah said....DITTO" lol I can't wait for Jack to post...or any Linden for that matter. I think they're skeered.

Cocoanut Koala · 10-28-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

Errrrm, on the subject of behavior like this in RL, I'd argue as a general rule that if the amount of money involved in the business transactions is greater than 6 or 7 figures, behaving in that manner is probably a good way to lose one's job permanently. Just food for thought. It doesn't matter if you behave that way to the lowest person on the totem pole, people don't want to do business with individuals who act in an unprofessional manner.

Wait wait wait! (And I'm sure I'm cocoanutting this thread.) We are now WORKING for SL? And in danger of losing our jobs? By not acting in an unprofessional manner towards our superiors?

Am I misunderstanding you?

coco

Jerboa Haystack · 10-28-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

Look Sarah, believe it or not, I am empathetic. If I were suspended for three days, depending on the timeframe, it could seriously damage my business as well. Hell, I've got plenty of scripts in my inventory that would be completely inaccessible if it happened, and I'd be really upset.

I'm just saying, it didn't happen in a vacuum. Being upset because the suspension hurt you is absolutely ok. It sucks. It sucks donkey dong.

Consider it a learning experience. This was their way of saying "fuck you" right back.

Ya know Jahar...we've been trying to tell you to let it go. But you still find the one thing *not* to say.

Just.Let.It.Go.

Sooz Pascale · 10-28-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant

Excellent idea! Can I help? I write a brutal "F-you" letter. It's one of my specialties.

I'll bet you do!! Despite my previous admonition to Sarah, SOMETIMES Anglo Saxon crudities CAN be effective, depending on context. One of my specialties is writing a leter to an opposing party, or more frequently, their attorney, explaining in long, stilted detail why my client will not pay them anything concluding with one of my favorite sayings from my red neck family, to wit: "You have as much chance of getting money from my client as you do trying to stuff butter up a bobcat's ass with a hot screwdriver." I've even used that line in settlement conferences. You should see the judges trying to control their laughter at that one!!

Sooz

Jerboa Haystack · 10-28-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale

:rofl"

"You have as much chance of getting money from my client as you do trying to stuff butter up a bobcat's ass with a hot screwdriver." I've even used that line in settlement conferences. You should see the judges trying to control their laughter at that one!!

Sooz

But this is SL...you might be sending that letter to the Bobcat.

(And they might be into it)

**Io Zeno** · 10-28-2008, 02:29 PM

This is the thing.

If LL were like any other oh, real company, you could "talk to a supervisor" you could "resolve a problem" you could act like an adult.

The fact is they run the company like they are a bunch of kids sitting in their parents basement and if you don't like what they do well, fuck you, lulz, bannzord! hahahaha.

So this is how people, reasonable people, wind up saying fuck you right back eventually.

What the fuck else can you do?

Jahar Aabye · 10-28-2008, 02:30 PM

I never said you were stupid. I said you *said* something stupid. Smart people say stupid things all the time. C'mon, you have to admit, it was a stupid thing to say. I'm sorry if you got the impression that I was calling you stupid.

But seriously now, if our roles were reversed, you'd probably point out that saying "fuck you" to Linden Labs wasn't the best idea.

Yeah, Linden Labs was heavy handed, but is anyone really surprised? They do that kind of thing. I'm glad that you got the suspension handled. I just think that it's a bit silly to blame them for suspending you for something that you know you shouldn't have done and probably wished you could take back after hitting the enter key.

**Io Zeno** · 10-28-2008, 02:32 PM

Jahar.

Fuck you.

**Io Zeno** · 10-28-2008, 02:34 PM

I mean, do you remember when people were tiering down because they would not accept their credit cards to pay their rent and LL didn't fix it for months?

wtf kind of "business" is this?

Fade Languish · 10-28-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

I never said you were stupid. I said you *said* something stupid. Smart people say stupid things all the time. C'mon, you have to admit, it was a stupid thing to say. I'm sorry if you got the impression that I was calling you stupid.

But seriously now, if our roles were reversed, you'd probably point out that saying "fuck you" to Linden Labs wasn't the best idea.

Yeah, Linden Labs was heavy handed, but is anyone really surprised? They do that kind of thing. I'm glad that you got the suspension handled. I just think that it's a bit silly to blame them for suspending you for something that you know you shouldn't have done and probably wished you could take back after hitting the enter key.

Whatever minor point you may have had has been laboured until it's just coming off as superior bullshit. Drop it, even if it means not getting the final word in, and people will drop it. Unless you want to keep coming off as a prat, in which case, carry on.

**Sarah Nerd** · 10-28-2008, 02:35 PM

No I think there's a breaking point where saying "Fuck You" isn't all that horrible. I've said it (and I'm sure you have too) for many lesser offense's in life.

Spaceman Opus · 10-28-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah Nerd

No I think there's a breaking point where saying "Fuck You" isn't all that horrible. I've said it (and I'm sure you have too) for many lesser offense's in life.

I just said it to my cat

Jerboa Haystack · 10-28-2008, 02:39 PM

And this is just such a time.

Heck it isn't even as if Sarah got in a Linden's face and said "Fuck You!"

She was in a group and threw out a "Fuck LL"..in the middle of a bunch of other "Fuck LL's".

Cocoanut Koala · 10-28-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

I'd say it illustrates my expectations of professionalism. Wildefire mentions that she pays Linden Labs thousands of USD per month. The flip side of that is that she receives thousands of dollars worth of services from Linden Labs each month, and generates thousands of dollars of USD in gross revenues each month thanks to the services provided by Linden Labs.

This actually makes her actions seem far worse, not better. I would have a greater expectation of professionalism from her given these facts, and given the fact that she is well known as a respectable, successful businesswoman and an SLCC laureate. You need to understand where I'm coming from in terms of business professionalism.

Let me give you an example from my RL job experience, since a few others have chimed in as well. At my old job, we had to deal with a new fee schedule that meant that our members were going to lose, collectively, tens of millions of dollars. Not Linden Dollars. US Dollars. It was entirely possible that some of our members, to whom I was professionally responsible as their representative, advocate, and analyst, might have to give up their practice.

I did not once consider calling up those responsible and shouting FUCK YOU. When we had conference calls to discuss how best to handle the situation, not one of my counterparts used language like that either. Even in our private discussions within my office with co-workers, we did not say things like that.

Believe me, we were very frustrated. Words cannot describe what that experience was like.

But we handled it in a professional manner. This is what I am talking about. If you want Linden Labs to treat you in a professional manner, you must act like a professional. If your response is to act like a sulking teenager, don't be surprised when they "ground" you for a few days.

If I may say so, your business professionalism seems lacking here, when you argue at length to hammer home the idea that Sara is "unprofessional" while apparently letting the Lindens go scot free on the harsh punishment.

I say this, because you might want to do business yourself with the people in this thread someday, and they are likely to remember this.

So why don't you mind your own professionalism, huh? Which seems to be totally bullheaded.

And (sorry for cocoanutting again, I can't help myself!) the dollars Sara and other are losing ARE U.S. dollars, not Linden dollars.

Plus - if you're gonna get all up in arms like this about a simple "Fuck LL," and brag that you and yours never use such naughty language, even in the privacy of your own office - then maybe SL just isn't the place for you.

THIS IS SL, for cryin out loud. Not for the faint of heart. Not a church social.

And no, customers are not TEENAGERS who need to BE GROUNDED. LL isn't our mommy and supposed to yank away our accounts for three days when we use a bad word.

We are the CUSTOMERS and we PAY THEIR SALARIES.

Either you haven't read the many posts thus far detailing why that is a really good way to lose customers in any business, or you really do think it is a good idea for a business to cut loose its customers for saying a bad word.

Which says to me that you have zero idea of business anyway.

coco

**Vertigo Paris** · 10-28-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceman Opus

I just said it to my cat

If my cat could talk, that's all she would be able to say. Along with "fucking whore!" Ask Dnate.

Eirik · 10-28-2008, 02:44 PM

I wonder if this situation calls for ... shouting out an immortal SLU quote about donkeys and sucking.

Or would that be a bit TOO heavy-handed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceman Opus

I just said it to my cat

You make kitty sad.

Spaceman Opus · 10-28-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceman Opus

I just said it to my cat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daman

You make kitty sad.

Nah, she just looked at me, winked and went to the litterbox.

She'll get her revenge while I'm sleeping, I'm sure

10-28-2008, 02:23 PM	#284 (permalink)
MoxZ Mokeev Invisibly Delicious Wewtie! I has Two Ghosties Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Arkansas USA Posts: 809 My Mood: SL Join Date: 8/25/07 Blog Entries: 2	Across the street LL is getting told "fuck you" in so many different ways it's hilarious. The entire forum is having a "fuck you fest". I've even seen one post that says, "What Sarah said....DITTO" lol I can't wait for Jack to post...or any Linden for that matter. I think they're skeered. __________________ Wipe your mouth, there's still a tiny bit of bullshit around your lips.

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10-28-2008, 02:18 PM	#277 (permalink)
Jahar Aabye Account Closed Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,137	Sooz put it more diplomatically than I could...wish there was an "agree" button under her post.

10-28-2008, 02:29 PM	#289 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 16,974 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	This is the thing. If LL were like any other oh, real company, you could "talk to a supervisor" you could "resolve a problem" you could act like an adult. The fact is they run the company like they are a bunch of kids sitting in their parents basement and if you don't like what they do well, fuck you, lulz, bannzord! hahahaha. So this is how people, reasonable people, wind up saying fuck you right back eventually. What the fuck else can you do?

10-28-2008, 02:30 PM	#290 (permalink)
Jahar Aabye Account Closed Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,137	I never said you were stupid. I said you said something stupid. Smart people say stupid things all the time. C'mon, you have to admit, it was a stupid thing to say. I'm sorry if you got the impression that I was calling you stupid. But seriously now, if our roles were reversed, you'd probably point out that saying "fuck you" to Linden Labs wasn't the best idea. Yeah, Linden Labs was heavy handed, but is anyone really surprised? They do that kind of thing. I'm glad that you got the suspension handled. I just think that it's a bit silly to blame them for suspending you for something that you know you shouldn't have done and probably wished you could take back after hitting the enter key.

10-28-2008, 02:32 PM	#291 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 16,974 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	Jahar. Fuck you.

10-28-2008, 02:34 PM	#292 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 16,974 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	I mean, do you remember when people were tiering down because they would not accept their credit cards to pay their rent and LL didn't fix it for months? wtf kind of "business" is this?

10-28-2008, 02:35 PM	#294 (permalink)
Sarah Nerd I BUY LAND SLU Supporter Still floating around the interwebz Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: O-hi-o! Posts: 9,258 My Mood: Harpoon Lagoon Champion! SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: August 05 Awards: 2	No I think there's a breaking point where saying "Fuck You" isn't all that horrible. I've said it (and I'm sure you have too) for many lesser offense's in life.

10-28-2008, 02:39 PM	#296 (permalink)
Jerboa Haystack Senior Member The ears make the jerboa! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,488 My Mood:	And this is just such a time. Heck it isn't even as if Sarah got in a Linden's face and said "Fuck You!" She was in a group and threw out a "Fuck LL"..in the middle of a bunch of other "Fuck LL's".

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