Brenda Connolly

No alternative will only go so far. Some will finally say, "I've had enough. I'll do something else for entertainment. Virtual Worlds are not that important to put up with all the crap."

Io Zeno

Shit I wouldn't last an hour, good thing I tiered down and sponge off Lucifer.

Io Zeno

For entertainment, sure.

For those financially invested in SL it's not as easy to say, fuck it.

The time and money it takes to establish a successful business makes it difficult to walk away, especially if that income is important to you. For some people, working at home is the only viable option as well.

Ann Launay

Is it actually 'sponging' if he takes it out in trade?

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Io Zeno

And I pole dance, too.

I am a slave and therefore get a roof over my head.

Midi Reifsnider

I'm not sure why you're still arguing about it Jahar. Nobody has said that Sarah was completely correct and should have been given a medal, everyone is saying that she shouldn't have been banned for three days for it (obviously they agree, they overturned the ban).

Sarah was upset when she posted this thread, and needed some help. People helped and commiserated. What's the point in questioning her professionalism etc etc, unless it's to add insult to injury?

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Isadora Graves

Agreed to a point. Still, I just can't see the justification of reprimanding an adult - utilizing an adult product - for using a profanity. It just isn't good business.

If I ceased to perform my duties every time someone uttered "fuck" over my choices or the situation, no one's computer would ever get fixed - and I would no longer be doing my job.

Sometimes people - being human - get upset, frustrated, and emotional; especially when it concerns something they are deeply vested in and passionate about. Certainly, Sarah could have chosen another way to voice her opinion, but she was upset. A good business, a helpful customer service rep, or a true concierge would - had they a problem with her remark - have asked her to please refrain from further outbursts and worked from there. Working with your displeased customers is much more effective than outright throwing them out or refusing to listen to them. Certainly, you can agree with that.

"Extreme" isn't really the right connotation; what they did was - as I said - "despotic". LL is, unlike some other businesses, a community. The people residing & working within it and alongside it should not be treated as errant children. That is simply how I feel about it. I respect your opinion and - as I said - agree with it to a point. On this overall topic, however, we just disagree.

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Brenda Connolly

Agreed. For those peole it is a differerent story.

Sarah Nerd

Ok now...
It's not like I was one on one with some poor innocent Linden forced to stand there and take my anger. I was in concierge information group sharing my unhappiness about the fact that they are basically ruining (and I'm not exaggerating) RUINING what took me a lot of time passion and money to build. What they did put the final nail in the coffin of the estate side of my business. I was sharing my anger with several of my PEERS who were also saying the same sorts of things. I was singled out and banned for 3 fucking days!!!! 3 fucking days!!! Do you have any idea what 3 days of being unable to work does to my business? I have several tenants and mainland customers to take care of. I have rl contracts to take care of inside of SL. These are all things that I must do in order to pay Linden Labs thousands and thousands of dollars that help keep the lights on and stuff the pockets of Linden Labs.

They banned me and I cried like a fucking baby because I couldn't believe it. This thing I love and have a huge passion for just cut off my ability to get the work done so that I could continue to pay them. They did this for sharing me anger with my peers in a group chat. I felt ashamed of myself. Not because I said "fuck you" but because I'm a walking second life salesman, telling anyone who will listen about how amazing this "game" is. I was beyond upset because it was the realization that this thing I love and am passionate about obviously didn't give two shits about me or any contribution I may have made to the "game".

So call me stupid, call me whatever you'd like, but I'm sure you don't have an understanding of the impact this increase will have on me, and hundreds or renters. If you did "FUCK YOU LL" wouldn't seem so harsh.

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Io Zeno

Sarah, you did nothing wrong, hon.

If a longtime customer of LL didn't get angry at some point, they are on heavy meds.

Ann Launay

@ Sarah

Malachi

The day Linden Lab stops referring to server rental as "buying land" and a single heartfelt "Fuck you" as "harassment" I'll agree with this point.

Jahar Aabye

I understand why it might have happened. I'm just saying that the appropriate thing to do *after* it happened, in hindsight, is to step back and go "wow, I said something really stupid, I acted irrationally in the heat of the moment, and I made a mistake." Since she successfully appealed her suspension, I presume that she said something similar to Linden Labs.

Eirik

Well true.

But alternative or not - if I didn't have an emotional tie to some people in SL, I'd be gone already.

Yeah ok, it's nice that everything's in 3D, unlike in an IRC chat. But that's the only advantage SL still has over IRC as far as I'm concerned.

And now I'm the one who's going to sound non empathic. But when your customers (you know, the ones in SL for the entertainment) are gone or stop spending money in SL. Then you'll have to come up with an alternative business anyway.

I'm already less than a fingerwidth from chalking up my time in SL as a poor decision, a complete loss, a waste of time, and (on the bright side I guess) a learning experience and a way to meet some new friends.

Thursday I'll log in for jack's office hours. I guess I'll hear around there before saying any other rash things. Even if I stay, I've added the DutchX website to my router's blacklist, just to ensure I'll never be easily tempted into spending money on SL again.

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JenK

For me it's just the incorrectness. The belief that this sort of thing doesn't happen in "professional" industries displays a certain provincialism. As yet another person working in a substantial "professional" industry, I can say that these sort of things do happen and when they do, you don't cut off the customer/client/whatever from their business as punishment. It is ridiculously unprofessional to claim that LLs actions were appropriate here.

That isn't to say that saying fuck you wasn't, perhaps, ill-advised, but sheesh.

Part of LL's problem is that they can't decide if they are a game or a platform. In a game, it can be appropriate to ban/suspend a player for gross or repeated offenses. For a platform that is hosting businesses, I don't believe that a suspension is ever appropriate and a ban should be treated as a contract termination -- something extremely severe and in anticipation of being on the receiving end of a lawsuit, TOS notwithstanding.

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Io Zeno

No I presume LL realized that treating a longtime and enthusiastic payer of their rent like an errant child is a fucking stupid thing to do.

Cocoanut Koala

Agreed, and ultimately LL agreed.

But the sinister part is - if it hadn't been Sarah Nerd, they likely wouldn't have agreed.

coco

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Sarah Nerd

But I don't feel I did anything wrong. Theres nothing wrong with sharing my upset in a group of my peers all experiencing the same thing I am. SO I guess you feel the entire concierge information group deserves a "suspension" because I can assure you there were a lot of people saying similar things and using cuss words in this adult game in that adult group.

Ann Launay

That's not what you've said at all, until now. You've called her stupid and basically made her out to be the bad guy, all while trumpeting your own superior professionalism.

Io Zeno

Well that is true but that is not the case now. In fact, if business is going to dry up it will happen now rather than later given the economy.

Which is kinda why treating your paying clients like shit is a stupid idea on LL's part as well.

Vertigo Paris

Nice back pedaling move.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant Helllllooooo Verti! At last! The chance to rate one of my favorite people! Absolutely beautiful pictures. You are a strong, opinionated woman who is not at all afraid to express herself both verbally and physically. You have a strong sense of fantasy and mystery surrounding a drop dead beauty. You maintain an aloof intelligent exterior that we long to break through, but which might intimidate some men. It shows a complexity of personality that few possess. Based on these pictures, I am giving you an 8.4 on the official Trout Recreant Scale of Slutiness. You are a slut, but only in the best possible way, and any man lucky enough to see that side of you should count his blessings.

Sooz Pascale

Sarah, I think you know how much I admire, respect, and even love you. Let me offer just a bit of advice, from a friend? Your anger was certainly justified. However, in any business type meeting, even in a live chat environment, if you noticeably lose your temper, you have lost the argument, 90 - 95% of the time. Your expression of anger in somewhat colorful Anglo Saxon terms is certainly understandable but it didn't do you any good. It caused a considerable amount of anguish and inconvenience on your part, even with the revering of the ban.

Okay, moving on here. You DO have some power. You are a prominent person in SL, one of the people who LL shamelessy uses to plug their product and you are, I believe, pretty much loved and repected. You also, I assume, pay those retarded little snots large amounts of money every month, IN A FALTERING WORLD WIDE ECONOMY no less. In other words, they know who you are, when in fact most of us here, me inculded, would merit a blank stare and "Who the heck is that?" if our names came up in conversation.

Here is my advice and this often, but not always works. Go up the food chain. In your case I recommend writing a letter, a detailed letter, using clear, concise yet powerful and business like language to express [a] your dismay and disagreement with their current land policies along with the reasons upon which you base your opinion; and [b] your displeasure over the way your honest and spontaneous expression of....disquietude was mishandled by an over zealous LL employee. Go as high as you think you can, perhaps to Robin Harper or above.

If you would like help in drafting such a letter, I would consider an honor to assist you. There are so many very fun, stilted and business like ways to say "Fuck you." Basically, hon, any one can say "fuck you." You could say instead that "your ideas and proposals vis a vis' this issue are ill considered and seem completely without merit. This proposal will do grave damage to severl SL businesses who have cheerfully supported both SL and LL in the past. Your proposed actions will not only hurt and financially damage supporters of SL and LL, but will ultimately cost LL significant amounts of hard US dollars as well as cost SL an untold amount of prestige. You are embarking on an unwise course, fraught with peril." Get it? Not easy to type in a chat

love,

Sooz
Sooz

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Nothing sickens me more than the closed door of a library - Barbara Tuchman

Sarah Nerd

I'm nothing to LL, and what I pay them is small fries. I have no pull with them or special place in there heart. I've just spent a lot of time here and have worked with a lot of people so I have an amazing groups of friends and people that stick up for me. I think I need to stop saying I Love Second Life so much, and Start saying I love the people of Second Life more.

Cindy Claveau

JUST STOP. PLEASE.

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Sometimes, "I hit it with my axe" is the best solution.

Jahar Aabye

Look Sarah, believe it or not, I am empathetic. If I were suspended for three days, depending on the timeframe, it could seriously damage my business as well. Hell, I've got plenty of scripts in my inventory that would be completely inaccessible if it happened, and I'd be really upset.

I'm just saying, it didn't happen in a vacuum. Being upset because the suspension hurt you is absolutely ok. It sucks. It sucks donkey dong.

Consider it a learning experience. This was their way of saying "fuck you" right back.