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ArchTx Edo · 10-28-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Maybe it's time for another Open Letter to the people in LL who actually set policy, pointing out how much trust and goodwill they are flushing along with the $$. I'd sign it. I had an Open Sim purchase scheduled for Jan 2009 which is now scrapped.

They have a technical issue that they are trying to address via the billing department - FAIL.

I suggest that everyone go here and express their opinions to the "Openspace Pricing and Policy Changes".

Quote:

SL Forums

At least we know 1 linden has promised to read it.

**Ann Launay** · 10-28-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

You need to understand where I'm coming from in terms of business professionalism.

First of all, don't patronize me. I have two degrees in accounting, both of which included quite a few other business courses, and have worked in a wide variety of jobs. I understand business professionalism.

I also understand that SL-based businesses are not typical businesses...the approach is far more casual. LL itself doesn't appear to have the vaguest clue how to run a business and, unless that changes, these sorts of decisions and the haphazard manner in which they implement them are what will ultimately destroy the platform. They do what they want without any regard for their customers over and over and over again...why is it a surprise that some of us, particularly those who love SL the most, might become disillusioned, weary, and short-tempered when LL lurches off on yet another ill-advised course of action?

How about this: When LL starts conducting itself professionally, then we can critique the SL-business owners who fail to reciprocate.

I'm all for politeness whenever possible, but everyone snaps sometimes. It happens. Stop being such an ass about it.

And don't compare the money losses of the company you work for to personal losses. Not the same at all.

Malachi · 10-28-2008, 01:20 PM

I was a volunteer Live Helper for LL for about a year. Not only did I receive "Fuck You"s and far, far worse for issues that were totally outside of my control, but I never once responded in kind or even v-hung-up on anyone. It isn't that hard.

I quit live help not because of the "abuse" but because I got tired for apologizing for LL's policies and bugs over and over and over again.

Jahar Aabye · 10-28-2008, 01:20 PM

I wish people would stop using the word ban. It is unfortunate that Sarah chose to use that word in this thread title as well.

Nobody banned Sarah Nerd. Sarah Nerd's account was not banned.

She was suspended for three days. There is a very big difference.

We all signed the Terms of Service, a contract, when we created our accounts. In it we agreed to abide by certain community standards, with the understanding that violating those standards could result in disciplinary action, which Sarah did.

CoyoteMomiji · 10-28-2008, 01:23 PM

Jahar, may I be added to your RSS feed, so if you ever make a small mistake and pay for it disproportionately at the hands of true unprofessionals, I can kick you repeatedly in the ribs with a sense of self-righteousness?

Thaaaaaaaaaaaanks.

Brenda Connolly · 10-28-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

I've spent the last 2 months re-evaluating my SL participation. I ended up selling my store parcel, and some friends and I sold our 1/4 mainland sim to split an OpenSpace.

I had cut my monthly expense for SL in half that way. Granted, I'm not a major land owner and I don't have a big investment in SL land, but this effects the little guy too - I could not justify spending $50 a month on an entertainment that I rarely ever use any more. And now after cutting that expense in half, LL is bumping their prices so drastically I'm right back to where I was before.

I'm not about to go back to mainland land with annoying neighbors. I'm not keen on spending this much money for something I really don't enjoy that much any more. All this price increase is going to do is cull the usership and a lot of us who were halfway out the door already are going to shut it behind us.

It's basically what I did a while back. Cancelled my Premium, and got rid of my estate home. I realized, I don't need a home in SL. When I do log in, I am somewhere doing something, if I want to sit at home,I don't need to log in to SL. IAfter I reinstated my account I rented a place on a private sim, and even that is rarely used except to login and change clothes. Things were headed downward back in April when I quit, and lately I'm getting the same feelings. I haven't logged in in about a week, and really don't have much interest. I'm not going to cancel again just yet, but if I do, I won't come back again, that's for sure.

**Io Zeno** · 10-28-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

No they did not. They banned her for using explicit language in an abusive manner directed at a Linden Labs employee in concierge group chat. It was not about expressing an opinion, it was about choosing....yes, I said choosing...to do so in an egregiously unprofessional and unacceptable manner.

I would imagine that there were a number of other people in that chat, yes? And I am almost certain that many of them similarly disliked the new policy, yes? And since it was a chat, after all, I am fairly sure that several of them may have said, in the chat, something to the effect of "I dislike this policy, it will hurt my business, please don't implement it."

Were any of these people given disciplinary actions by Linden Labs?

If they were, then I suppose this is a chilling example of Linden Labs punishing people for disagreeing with them. If they weren't, then maybe....just maybe....Sarah made a big mistake (we're all human, after all), and needs to accept that she acted inappropriately and apologize. Whether the disciplinary action by LL was extreme or not, it does not absolve her of the need to accept responsibility for her actions.

You clearly never worked with the public much.

If someone was literally abusing an employee, and since Sarah's statement was to no one in particular, you cannot make this argument, then you would be told to pipe down or be shown the door.

You most certainly would not be refused the ability to do business for days, that would be suicide.

Unless you had a bunch of junkies for clients.

..... oh, wait.

My phone company doesn't give time outs and detentions to it's customers. Because we are adults, here, not in grade school. I can only tell you that if you have worked on the customer service end of a business, only threats of death will make a company refuse your money. For a customer service rep, that is your job, to take the shit and calm the customer down, it is not for the weak.

Unless you had a bunch of junkies for clients...

Oh, wait.

Eirik · 10-28-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

I wish people would stop using the word ban. It is unfortunate that Sarah chose to use that word in this thread title as well.

Nobody banned Sarah Nerd. Sarah Nerd's account was not banned.

She was suspended for three days. There is a very big difference.

We all signed the Terms of Service, a contract, when we created our accounts. In it we agreed to abide by certain community standards, with the understanding that violating those standards could result in disciplinary action, which Sarah did.

Burn the witch! She said fuck! Well ... except we're not really burning her. We're just ... euhm ... giving her a tan!

Jahar Aabye · 10-28-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

And don't compare the money losses of the company you work for to personal losses. Not the same at all.

It wasn't money losses of a company. It was personal losses for people to whom I was personally and professionally responsible. There is a large difference. In any event, the people who were losing reimbursement were also not acting in the unprofessional manner that Sarah did, and if they had done so in a public or semi-public manner, there would have been hell to pay for them too.

She got emotional, said something stupid in the heat of the moment, and received a short suspension. I don't see why this is evidence of Linden Labs being evil. She appealed the suspension and was allowed back in-world.

Rather than having the reaction of "oh my g_d, I hope they don't do that to me," you should be having the reaction of "wow, I hope I don't let myself get so emotional that I behave like that."

Brenda Connolly · 10-28-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Launay

First of all, don't patronize me. I have two degrees in accounting, both of which included quite a few other business courses, and have worked in a wide variety of jobs. I understand business professionalism.

I also understand that SL-based businesses are not typical businesses...the approach is far more casual. LL itself doesn't appear to have the vaguest clue how to run a business and, unless that changes, these sorts of decisions and the haphazard manner in which they implement them are what will ultimately destroy the platform. They do what they want without any regard for their customers over and over and over again...why is it a surprise that some of us, particularly those who love SL the most, might become disillusioned, weary, and short-tempered when LL lurches off on yet another ill-advised course of action?

How about this: When LL starts conducting itself professionally, then we can critique the SL-business owners who fail to reciprocate.

I'm all for politeness whenever possible, but everyone snaps sometimes. It happens. Stop being such an ass about it.

And don't compare the money losses of the company you work for to personal losses. Not the same at all.

Unlike most businesses, SL is unique due to the emotional attachment some have to it, fostered and encouraged by LL itself. And they have been the worst example of business professionalism and competency that I've seen. So I say a Fuck You was well deserved.

Jahar Aabye · 10-28-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Jahar, may I be added to your RSS feed, so if you ever make a small mistake and pay for it disproportionately at the hands of true unprofessionals, I can kick you repeatedly in the ribs with a sense of self-righteousness?

Once my health improves enough for me to start training again, you can come down on sparring night and kick me in the ribs literally.

**Vertigo Paris** · 10-28-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

I wish people would stop using the word ban. It is unfortunate that Sarah chose to use that word in this thread title as well.

Nobody banned Sarah Nerd. Sarah Nerd's account was not banned.

She was suspended for three days. There is a very big difference.

We all signed the Terms of Service, a contract, when we created our accounts. In it we agreed to abide by certain community standards, with the understanding that violating those standards could result in disciplinary action, which Sarah did.

You know, I have been reading along, trying to get a feeling for where you are coming from but you lost me a long time ago. Well, more right about the time you tried to compare what your 'clients' went through versus what Sarah went through.

You can't even begin to make that comparison cause when the day ended, it wasn't your livelihood being destroyed. You refuse to even acknowledge that. You would rather point the finger at Sarah from your mountain on high and pass judgement.

Tell me, just how does Linden ass taste?

CoyoteMomiji · 10-28-2008, 01:28 PM

Way to miss the point.

What a shock.

Eirik · 10-28-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

you should be having the reaction of "wow, I hope I don't let myself get so emotional that I behave like that."

Good. Asking people to stop having an emotional attachment to SL is like telling Linden Labs that they can stop doing business.

Emotional attachment is the only reason why people are still using the turd sandwich LL created.

CoyoteMomiji · 10-28-2008, 01:30 PM

I also only use SL because the other grids don't yet have an adequate financial system in place, else I'd be long gone.

Jahar Aabye · 10-28-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

You can't even begin to make that comparison cause when the day ended, it wasn't your livelihood being destroyed. You refuse to even acknowledge that. You would rather point the finger at Sarah from your mountain on high and pass judgement.

Tell me, just how does Linden ass taste?

Hmmmm, my professional career on the line...yeah, nothing like what Sarah had to deal with, I agree with you on that.

Speaking of self-righteousness....pot, kettle, kettle, pot.

**Io Zeno** · 10-28-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daman

Good. Asking people to stop having an emotional attachment to SL is like telling Linden Labs that they can stop doing business.

Emotional attachment is the only reason why people are still using the turd sandwich LL created.

Not really, the reason is there is no alternative, and no OpenSim is not SL by a long shot yet.

Jahar Aabye · 10-28-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Way to miss the point.

No. I got the point. I was showing how much I gave a shit about your point.

Eirik · 10-28-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoyoteMomiji

I also only use SL because the other grids don't yet have an adequate financial system in place, else I'd be long gone.

Yeah ok. I guess that is a reason as well.

I'll just comfort myself knowing that any technical problems with opensource grids are just temporary.

**Io Zeno** · 10-28-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

No. I got the point. I was showing how much I gave a shit about your point.

How unprofessional, Cris should give you a three day suspension.

**Ann Launay** · 10-28-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

It was personal losses for people to whom I was personally and professionally responsible.

Still not your money, so still not the same as Sarah's situation.

And you continue to ignore the other mitigating factors. This isn't the first or even the fifth time that LL has shown such utter disregard for its customers...all things considered, Sarah's reaction was mild.

Ned Easterwood · 10-28-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

Hmmmm, my professional career on the line...yeah, nothing like what Sarah had to deal with, I agree with you on that.

Speaking of self-righteousness....pot, kettle, kettle, pot.

Jahar - why the hell are you so busy defending Linden Labs here?

You've got about 80 posts on this board, and half of them are fighting with other folks. May I respectfully suggest a chill pill? Maybe a dram of the water of life? Go walk the dog - read a good book - relax for heaven's sake.

**Io Zeno** · 10-28-2008, 01:43 PM

Look, SL is the only up and running, established virtual world where people can and do make or supplement their income. And they have, over the years, invested a lot of money and time in it.

Because of this they treat their paying customers like shit, abuse them and do things that would sink any other business in a heartbeat.

End of story.

Jerboa Haystack · 10-28-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

I wish people would stop using the word ban. It is unfortunate that Sarah chose to use that word in this thread title as well.

Nobody banned Sarah Nerd. Sarah Nerd's account was not banned.

She was suspended for three days. There is a very big difference.

We all signed the Terms of Service, a contract, when we created our accounts. In it we agreed to abide by certain community standards, with the understanding that violating those standards could result in disciplinary action, which Sarah did.

Wait...aren't you the same guy complaining that you can't take down your guns...that have an issue due to LL screwing up H4...because your RL income is at risk?

And you come here trying to tell us that Sarah is the bad one here?

Dude...seriously...go pack sand. (hint: That's a Navy way to say fuck off...)

**Ann Launay** · 10-28-2008, 01:51 PM

Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, I'm sure everyone, including Sarah, would likely agree that blurting out "Fuck you, LL" in Concierge chat was probably not the best course of action.

The holier-than-thou attitude and deliberate refusal to understand why it might have happened is what's making me twitch.

10-28-2008, 01:23 PM	#230 (permalink)
CoyoteMomiji Tarot Obsessor Zzzt zzzt zzzt Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,497 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 19 SL Join Date: 01/26/06	Jahar, may I be added to your RSS feed, so if you ever make a small mistake and pay for it disproportionately at the hands of true unprofessionals, I can kick you repeatedly in the ribs with a sense of self-righteousness? Thaaaaaaaaaaaanks. __________________ Slick closed until further notice. Recidivist Sideways: YOU'LL TAKE MY ROUGH, BUTTERY FRIENDSHIP, AND YOU'LL LIKE IT

10-28-2008, 01:51 PM	#250 (permalink)
Ann Launay Neko-licious™ SLU Supporter Um, er...what now? Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,906 My Mood: Addiction Solitaire Champion! SL Join Date: 8/8/06 Blog Entries: 3 XBOX Leaderboard: 38^th Awards: 1	Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, I'm sure everyone, including Sarah, would likely agree that blurting out "Fuck you, LL" in Concierge chat was probably not the best course of action. The holier-than-thou attitude and deliberate refusal to understand why it might have happened is what's making me twitch. Last edited by Ann Launay; 10-28-2008 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Too many probabilities.

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10-28-2008, 01:20 PM	#228 (permalink)
Malachi the bathwater & the baby fish and bees are inherently sarcastic Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,664	I was a volunteer Live Helper for LL for about a year. Not only did I receive "Fuck You"s and far, far worse for issues that were totally outside of my control, but I never once responded in kind or even v-hung-up on anyone. It isn't that hard. I quit live help not because of the "abuse" but because I got tired for apologizing for LL's policies and bugs over and over and over again.

10-28-2008, 01:20 PM	#229 (permalink)
Jahar Aabye Account Closed Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,137	I wish people would stop using the word ban. It is unfortunate that Sarah chose to use that word in this thread title as well. Nobody banned Sarah Nerd. Sarah Nerd's account was not banned. She was suspended for three days. There is a very big difference. We all signed the Terms of Service, a contract, when we created our accounts. In it we agreed to abide by certain community standards, with the understanding that violating those standards could result in disciplinary action, which Sarah did.

10-28-2008, 01:28 PM	#238 (permalink)
CoyoteMomiji Tarot Obsessor Zzzt zzzt zzzt Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,497 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 19 SL Join Date: 01/26/06	Way to miss the point. What a shock.

10-28-2008, 01:30 PM	#240 (permalink)
CoyoteMomiji Tarot Obsessor Zzzt zzzt zzzt Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,497 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 19 SL Join Date: 01/26/06	I also only use SL because the other grids don't yet have an adequate financial system in place, else I'd be long gone.

10-28-2008, 01:43 PM	#248 (permalink)
Io Zeno Gone SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 17,021 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	Look, SL is the only up and running, established virtual world where people can and do make or supplement their income. And they have, over the years, invested a lot of money and time in it. Because of this they treat their paying customers like shit, abuse them and do things that would sink any other business in a heartbeat. End of story.

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