SLUniverse Forums

Asher Bertrand · 10-22-2007, 06:13 PM

Some of the replies here got me thinking. Dangerous, I know.

I differentiate between ridiculing a religion and ridiculing its adherent.

Religions are ideas and will stand or fall on their own merit. You can't hurt it by making fun of it. It doesn't have rights and deserve protection like people do.

Ridiculing the person, not the faith, is worse.

What was said to me last night was personal. I'll post it later. I really was taken aback by how these people got so vile so quickly for no reason at all. Guess I've just been lucky so far.

Decadent · 10-22-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

Religions are ideas and will stand or fall on their own merit. You can't hurt it by making fun of it. It doesn't have rights and deserve protection like people do.

Ridiculing the person, not the faith, is worse.

Pocket Pfeffer · 10-22-2007, 08:40 PM

I'm an Irish Roman Catholic and I just wanted to say that I'm not at all offended by anyone dressing up in a priest's outfit if they want.... more power to them

What I AM offended by is pedo priests and religious bigots who think that everyone who deviates in any way from the faith is going straight to hell.

Each to his own...As I've already said, I'm Catholic, but I don't go to mass on a regular basis, I still think of myself as a Christian though, Christianity in any form is a state of mind and heart... I've met some aethists who were, in my opinion, more 'Christian' in their attitude than many I know.

Jaysus, (irish for Jesus... :-) my dog is more christian than a lot of people.... Suppose being 'christian' means many different things to people....

Bless me father for I will sin.....

Clancy Sullivan · 10-22-2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocket Pfeffer

I'm an Irish Roman Catholic and I just wanted to say that I'm not at all offended...Bless me father for I will sin.....

Up the Republic!

Ten · 10-22-2007, 09:10 PM

Coincidentally "Jaysus" is exactly how the refer to the Christian Son of God here in the southern United States.

"Ahnd JAYSUS say'id, do not have sex with yer momma! Thay't is INCEST and will sent y'eh straight ter HELL!"

It should also be known that I don't trust christians because my old best friend was a pastor's daughter... and she turned out to be a raving lesbian, a liar, an accuser (I was the scapegoat, go figure) and a user. Then she'd go to church on Sunday and start all over again.

All religions seem to stem from the same point for me, and all these wars in the name of god seem silly. That's the only reason someone would be teased by me for their religion - only if their way was the right way, and that's IT. I don't enjoy that.

Ned Easterwood · 10-22-2007, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Well it's true. Nerd porn is terrifying.

Joannah Cramer · 10-22-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

Religions are ideas and will stand or fall on their own merit. You can't hurt it by making fun of it. It doesn't have rights and deserve protection like people do.

Ridiculing the person, not the faith, is worse.

Not sure if it's so clear cut... religions are built on certain ideas but for people who choose to accept them, that acceptance is act of faith that has as much to do with heart as it has with mind... for some probably more with former than the latter.

You can't hurt the idea itself by mocking it, certainly, because idea is abstract and has no feelings. But if someone picks that idea as their way of life, then when you ridicule it you *are* also basically mocking that person's way of living and you can hurt the person that way. It's not different really from ridiculing their choice of life partner, work, education path, whatever.

Vengence Opus · 10-22-2007, 11:16 PM

i think i just read JesusLOL, part three.

jauani · 10-22-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyanne

I think it's disgusting that people like you (an admitted Atheist) walks around in a Priest collar in SL) You should be ashamed of yourself. Equally disgusting that there's 4 pages of people who never mentioned this. Could be just me... but I find it mocking.

i think that just about proves aimee's point.

Cocoanut Koala · 10-22-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

I'm a practicing atheist myself. And while I completely understand how important people's faith is to them, personally, it always puzzles me why one sect can take themselves seriously and forbid "heresy" - essentially outlawing free debate - all the while pointing to other sects as being worse.

Just my opinion here, but I don't think any body of ideas deserves the kind of awe and sacrosanct privelege that would prohibit (or inhibit) free and open discussion. That open discussion can also take the form of satire and parody, but it should be no less protected as a form of discussion.

Religious satire has been around for centuries. In the darkest of times it has resulted in burnings and torture.

Or wars.

I can understand how it is easy to offend people when it's such a personal thing as faith. But from where I sit, it also strikes me as silly when one thinks of all the better ways to spend time and energy.

How is one a "practicing atheist?" Do you have to practice it? Do you find ideas of God slipping in around the edges, and have to tamp them down, or what?

Not trying to start a fight. I just find the phrase "practicing atheist" rather strange. Maybe I'm missing something.

coco

jauani · 10-23-2007, 12:43 AM

i was wondering the same thing but i didn't want to commit heresy.

Menchor Barbosa · 10-23-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

And while I completely understand how important people's faith is to them, personally, it always puzzles me why one sect can take themselves seriously and forbid "heresy" - essentially outlawing free debate - all the while pointing to other sects as being worse.

Heresy is a very misunderstood term. A heretic is someone who holds false doctrine out TO THE BELIEVERS as the truth. How is doctrine determined to be false. This process is a little murky in Christianity, but goes something like this -- There are beliefs that are at the core of Christianity. Those who hold these beliefs are Christians, those who do not are something else. In order to get to a set of doctrines that define Christianity, we must agree what is Christian doctrine and what is false doctrine. (The we here is the broadest interpretation here of Christendom.) There is then a broad consensus on what doctrines are basic. In Christianity it is the dual nature of the divinity and humanity of Christ, the acceptance of the resurrection and the descent of the holy spirit. (There is a lot more but this is just an example.) For a non Christian these issues are kind of strange, but for a Christian heretic they are supremely important and they disagree with one or more. A favorite heresy is that Christ was not really human. A heretic who espoused this doctrine would, in earlier times, be subjected to the likes of the inquisition and possibly put to death. In this day and age, he would simply be expelled from the church and that is the end of it, he is no longer accepted as a Christian. What has caused most of the problems in the past is that the church and the state have become intertwined with each other and the issues of defending the state and defending the church have become confused. It is very easy to look to the inquisition when the emperor is crowned by the pope and the emperor is threatened by an idea. This is still a problem. Look at the number of conservative Christians you may have heard from who are confused on this issue. They try to legislate their belief and use the force of law to enforce them. This is both bad law and bad religion.

Aimee Weber · 10-23-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jauani

i think that just about proves aimee's point.

Totally.

Wait ... I had a point??

jauani · 10-23-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimee Weber

Totally.

Wait ... I had a point??

i meant unprove. that totally unproves aimee's point.

Aimee Weber · 10-23-2007, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jauani

i meant unprove. that totally unproves aimee's point.

Awe man. I lost the argument and I don't even remember what I was arguing.

jauani · 10-23-2007, 12:49 AM

i think it isn't surprising that a christian would be accosted in sl. i think the internet is a breeding ground for athiests and the wikipedia is their home base.

jauani · 10-23-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimee Weber

Awe man. I lost the argument and I don't even remember what I was arguing.

your point was that if you hold any opinion at all, someone will fly out of the wood works to tell you off.

Aimee Weber · 10-23-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jauani

your point was that if you hold any opinion at all, someone will fly out of the wood works to tell you off.

THAT'S TOTALLY WRONG YOUR IDEAS ARE CORRUPT AND INSANE!!!!

(why is your location set to my panties???)

jauani · 10-23-2007, 01:20 AM

because i think they are just about the funniest discussion piece in the history of sl forums.

Clancy Sullivan · 10-23-2007, 01:20 AM

Asher, the replies above by others are some of the weakest, watery, wackiest, wiggly, wobbly and worst in moral whoredom ever posted in an internet forum. I find them mildly entertaining. But, I am looking forward to your return to this subject with a fresh report on what happened to you SL because that should be truly hilarious---plus, you'll get even more moral protestations here.

Godspeed, my boy.

Asher Bertrand · 10-23-2007, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clancy Sullivan

Asher, the replies above by others are some of the weakest, watery, wackiest, wiggly, wobbly and worst in moral whoredom ever posted in an internet forum. I find them mildly entertaining. But, I am looking forward to your return to this subject with a fresh report on what happened to you SL because that should be truly hilarious---plus, you'll get even more moral protestations here.

Godspeed, my boy.

This was exactly the motivation I was looking for.

Jugs · 10-23-2007, 03:00 AM

You forgot Pastafarianism use that as a tag.
if you are unaware of the FSM and Pastafarianism check here LINKY

Ned Easterwood · 10-23-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menchor Barbosa

Heresy is a very misunderstood term. A heretic is someone who holds false doctrine out TO THE BELIEVERS as the truth. How is doctrine determined to be false. This process is a little murky in Christianity, but goes something like this -- There are beliefs that are at the core of Christianity. Those who hold these beliefs are Christians, those who do not are something else. In order to get to a set of doctrines that define Christianity, we must agree what is Christian doctrine and what is false doctrine. (The we here is the broadest interpretation here of Christendom.) There is then a broad consensus on what doctrines are basic. In Christianity it is the dual nature of the divinity and humanity of Christ, the acceptance of the resurrection and the descent of the holy spirit. (There is a lot more but this is just an example.) For a non Christian these issues are kind of strange, but for a Christian heretic they are supremely important and they disagree with one or more. A favorite heresy is that Christ was not really human. A heretic who espoused this doctrine would, in earlier times, be subjected to the likes of the inquisition and possibly put to death. In this day and age, he would simply be expelled from the church and that is the end of it, he is no longer accepted as a Christian. What has caused most of the problems in the past is that the church and the state have become intertwined with each other and the issues of defending the state and defending the church have become confused. It is very easy to look to the inquisition when the emperor is crowned by the pope and the emperor is threatened by an idea. This is still a problem. Look at the number of conservative Christians you may have heard from who are confused on this issue. They try to legislate their belief and use the force of law to enforce them. This is both bad law and bad religion.

Many religious literalists are, at base, authoritarian personalities. They accept something on authority, not because they have thought about it rationally. This can cause a lot of problems for those of us who don't think that way.

10-22-2007, 08:40 PM	#53 (permalink)
Pocket Pfeffer Paddy & Proud! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 36 SL Join Date: May 2007 SLShopper Ads: 13 My Mood:	Christianity - a State of Mind! I'm an Irish Roman Catholic and I just wanted to say that I'm not at all offended by anyone dressing up in a priest's outfit if they want.... more power to them What I AM offended by is pedo priests and religious bigots who think that everyone who deviates in any way from the faith is going straight to hell. Each to his own...As I've already said, I'm Catholic, but I don't go to mass on a regular basis, I still think of myself as a Christian though, Christianity in any form is a state of mind and heart... I've met some aethists who were, in my opinion, more 'Christian' in their attitude than many I know. Jaysus, (irish for Jesus... :-) my dog is more christian than a lot of people.... Suppose being 'christian' means many different things to people.... Bless me father for I will sin..... __________________ http://www.pocketsmusic.wordpress.com Take a listen....you know you want to...

10-22-2007, 11:16 PM	#58 (permalink)
Vengence Opus juggernaut of dumb. this is horrible..here, have a taste! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: along the long, rainy river Posts: 2,027 My Mood: Awards: 1	i think i just read JesusLOL, part three. __________________ “If you're losing your soul and you know it, then you've still got a soul left to lose.” ~ Charles Bukowski

10-23-2007, 03:00 AM	#72 (permalink)
Jugs Thru The Looking Glass Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 55 SL Join Date: 8/11/07 My Mood:	You forgot Pastafarianism use that as a tag. if you are unaware of the FSM and Pastafarianism check here LINKY __________________ Hit me up for a match in any of my recent games......Send a invite...Giggles...prob have to send it thru sl though havent been on much.

10-22-2007, 06:13 PM	#51 (permalink)
Asher Bertrand Dead Guy Les pantalons du diable! Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,527 Blog Entries: 2 My Mood:	Some of the replies here got me thinking. Dangerous, I know. I differentiate between ridiculing a religion and ridiculing its adherent. Religions are ideas and will stand or fall on their own merit. You can't hurt it by making fun of it. It doesn't have rights and deserve protection like people do. Ridiculing the person, not the faith, is worse. What was said to me last night was personal. I'll post it later. I really was taken aback by how these people got so vile so quickly for no reason at all. Guess I've just been lucky so far.

10-22-2007, 09:10 PM	#55 (permalink)
Ten Baby FIC WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,233 SL Join Date: 10/7/2006 My Mood: Awards: 1	Coincidentally "Jaysus" is exactly how the refer to the Christian Son of God here in the southern United States. "Ahnd JAYSUS say'id, do not have sex with yer momma! Thay't is INCEST and will sent y'eh straight ter HELL!" It should also be known that I don't trust christians because my old best friend was a pastor's daughter... and she turned out to be a raving lesbian, a liar, an accuser (I was the scapegoat, go figure) and a user. Then she'd go to church on Sunday and start all over again. All religions seem to stem from the same point for me, and all these wars in the name of god seem silly. That's the only reason someone would be teased by me for their religion - only if their way was the right way, and that's IT. I don't enjoy that.

10-23-2007, 12:43 AM	#61 (permalink)
jauani Star Chamber Captain Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: haunted labyrinth Posts: 738 Addiction Solitaire Champion! My Mood:	i was wondering the same thing but i didn't want to commit heresy.

10-23-2007, 12:49 AM	#66 (permalink)
jauani Star Chamber Captain Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: haunted labyrinth Posts: 738 Addiction Solitaire Champion! My Mood:	i think it isn't surprising that a christian would be accosted in sl. i think the internet is a breeding ground for athiests and the wikipedia is their home base.

10-23-2007, 01:20 AM	#69 (permalink)
jauani Star Chamber Captain Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: haunted labyrinth Posts: 738 Addiction Solitaire Champion! My Mood:	because i think they are just about the funniest discussion piece in the history of sl forums.

10-23-2007, 01:20 AM	#70 (permalink)
Clancy Sullivan Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 4,630 Business: Rollerskating My Mood: Awards: 1	Asher, the replies above by others are some of the weakest, watery, wackiest, wiggly, wobbly and worst in moral whoredom ever posted in an internet forum. I find them mildly entertaining. But, I am looking forward to your return to this subject with a fresh report on what happened to you SL because that should be truly hilarious---plus, you'll get even more moral protestations here. Godspeed, my boy.