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Old 07-18-2008, 12:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Democratic Government of the Metaverse...again

I've been searching through the forums for a mention of the Metaverse Republic and I can't find any, which is strange because I think it is so your sort of subject.

At the SLBA seminar the other night I met Ashcroft Burnham, who is planning to set up a judicial system for SL. Initially I assumed this was like a mock court, and meant for training up lawyers.

But no... Ashcroft dropped a FAQ and an explanatory document on me, and it seems that theyhave decided to institute Judge Judy for SL - or even the Metaverse.

Here's an excerpt:
Metaverse Republic FAQ
2.2

1. What is the Metaverse Republic?

The Metaverse Republic is an independent, non-profitmaking organisation that will provide enforceable dispute resolution to SecondLife by means of a judicial system (in other words, courts) and a democratically elected Parliament.

2. Is the Metaverse Republic up and running yet?

No. We are still in the process of designing the constitution and technical systems. It will take quite some time before we are ready to go, since we must be very careful to get things right.

3. How will the Metaverse Republic work?

There will be courts, where anybody will be able to bring a case, and the outcomes will be decided by skilled, professional judges, and possibly also juries. The decisions of the court will ultimately be able to be enforced by the use of a banishment database. Anybody who, for example, fails to observe a court order, can have her or his avatar name(s) placed on the banishment database. Using sophisticated systems currently under design by our Techincal Team, landowners (both of individual parcels and whole estates) will be able to “subscribe” to the banishment database (for free), which will automatically eject/ban from that land all the avatars whose names are on the database.

All subscribers will be entitled to vote in regular elections to the Parliament (as well as the executive and a body called the Public Oversight Panel). The Parliament will, in turn, be able to pass laws binding on the courts. It will also be possible for entire local communities to subscribe en bloc by subscribing all of their land (such as a whole estate), and every citizen of that local community (whether directly a landowner or not) will be entitled to vote.

4. Will the courts only be able to deal with disputes between subscribers, or on subscribing land?

No: the courts will deal with all people who use the virtual worlds in which the Metaverse Republic operates. Creating artificial boundaries would serve only to undermine the effectiveness of the system and create unnecessary confusion.

5. Who are you to be making laws for other people?

Ultimately, we are not: because the democratic Parliament will, subject to some necessary constitutional limits, have the power to pass laws binding on all the courts, we are just setting up a structure within which people can make laws for themselves.

So... waddya think?
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Great, bureaucracy from trumped up users with imaginary importance. Just what we need.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The truest democracy is the free market. Why don't they use to put together some OpenSim servers and put them on the OSgrid?
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It's easy to play "economy" in a virtual world. Much harder to play "government".

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Old 07-18-2008, 12:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Ashcroft has been flogging this dead horse for years.

He's a nice guy.. but this shit will never work.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah, on first glance I thought somebody had necroed this from three years ago.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ashcroft has been flogging this dead horse for years.

He's a nice guy.. but this shit will never work.
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Yeah, on first glance I thought somebody had necroed this from three years ago.


This is at least that old.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Government, No thanks, we already have a messed up one here in RL!

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Old 07-18-2008, 01:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Law only works when you have an army or police to enforce it. Since everyone in SL is equally equipped it cannot work. The only police force in SL is the Lindens and its unlikely the judge could influence their decisions.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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This is a government in the same way as the Alliance Navy is an army.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm a lawyer in RL. I can flat out tell you without any equivocation whatsoever that this...will...not...work...period.

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Old 07-18-2008, 01:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Ashcroft said as much when he answered "no, no, ultimately we are not."
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i find the fact he uses the name 'ashcroft' to set up a government creepy and foreboding in its own right.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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i find the fact he uses the name 'ashcroft' to set up a government creepy and foreboding in its own right.
he's going to make us cover Lady Liberty's breasts
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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he's going to make us cover Lady Liberty's breasts
I thought it was the Spirit of Justice?

No matter. It just demonstrated that boobs don't like being shown up by other boobs

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Old 07-18-2008, 02:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I thought it was the Spirit of Justice?

No matter. It just demonstrated that boobs don't like being shown up by other boobs

I stand corrected. Yes.

YAY BOOBS.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The truest democracy is the free market.
Ehh, it's not. Free market is perhaps rough equivalent of anarchy (no regulations beyond 'what the market can bear') and that's totally different beast from democracy.

You can easily have free market lead to monopoly/oligopoly whose political equivalents (oligarchy etc) are nothing like democracy.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I remember the other thread discussing this like it was yesterday. So funny.
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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And how does he plan to enforce these laws outside of those "Artificial Boundaries" of non subscribers?

What a douche.
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:40 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliandris View Post

So... waddya think?
Cali
I think it's the same flavor of bullshit people have been hacking up like furballs for years.

And obviously, anyone trying out for it will go to the head of the FIC list
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
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G'damn it!, where is my SC archive !!!!!!

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Law only works when you have an army or police to enforce it. Since everyone in SL is equally equipped it cannot work. The only police force in SL is the Lindens and its unlikely the judge could influence their decisions.
To be fair to Ashcroft, there is an implementable deterrence/punishment element in his plan, namely that failure to abide by their justice system could get you banned in a BanLink type fashion from all land held by Metaverse Republic citizens (subscribers?, ???). Initially that deterrence will be no deterrence at all, but *if* the idea ever took off ......

That said, I'm more than happy with our current service-provider for arbitrary and inconsistent justice - keep up the good work LL!
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:18 PM   #24 (permalink)
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G'damn it!, where is my SC archive !!!!!!



To be fair to Ashcroft, there is an implementable deterrence/punishment element in his plan, namely that failure to abide by their justice system could get you banned in a BanLink type fashion from all land held by Metaverse Republic citizens (subscribers?, ???). Initially that deterrence will be no deterrence at all, but *if* the idea ever took off ......
But then he said this:
Quote:
4. Will the courts only be able to deal with disputes between subscribers, or on subscribing land?

No: the courts will deal with all people who use the virtual worlds in which the Metaverse Republic operates. Creating artificial boundaries would serve only to undermine the effectiveness of the system and create unnecessary confusion.
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:28 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Meaning if someone wasn't a subscriber they could still be brought up on charges. Most of the time it would be unenforceable, except for bannings.
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