SLUniverse Forums

Brenda Connolly · 07-18-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dnate Mars

Meaning if someone wasn't a subscriber they could still be brought up on charges. Most of the time it would be unenforceable, except for bannings.

Ok, but he says this to start off:

Quote:

1. What is the Metaverse Republic?

The Metaverse Republic is an independent, non-profitmaking organisation that will provide enforceable dispute resolution to SecondLife by means of a judicial system (in other words, courts) and a democratically elected Parliament.

He seems to be intimating that he prercieves this "Government" will have jusrisdiction over all.....or am i just reading too much into it?

CaleVinson · 07-18-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenda Connolly

He seems to be intimating that he prercieves this "Government" will have jusrisdiction over all.....or am i just reading too much into it?

I think you're reading it correctly Brenda, and I if I recall correctly the "applies to all" was a central plank of the system as discussed in an epic SC thread.

Many people recoil against this aspect (I do too), but at the end of the day, anyone is entitled to ban anyone from their land for whatever reason they see fit.

Brenda Connolly · 07-18-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaleVinson

I think you're reading it correctly Brenda, and I if I recall correctly the "applies to all" was a central plank of the system as discussed in an epic SC thread.

Many people recoil against this aspect (I do too), but at the end of the day, anyone is entitled to ban anyone from their land for whatever reason they see fit.

Of course they are. But they always were, before this clown showed up. I don't need any "Court" to tell me who to allow on my land. *If I owned any, that is* But he seems to think that he will be able to foist this upon EVERYONE, whether they "subscribe" to his service or not. How does he propose to do that?

Hypatia Callisto · 07-18-2008, 09:50 PM

IT WONT APPLY IN CALEDON.

or Winterfell or Skybeam either.

FLEE TO US!

Vengence Opus · 07-18-2008, 09:55 PM

can i be Judge Judy?

pm me if you need an SL judge. seriously.

possible sentences:

- pummeling by watermelon gun.
- forced to wear nooby clothing for one week.
- box on the head, sent to welcome area with a "mentor" tag.
- revocation of "HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" privileges.

i really could go on, but please.

pm.

Judge Judy.

thinks about it.

Hypatia Callisto · 07-18-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joannah Cramer

Ehh, it's not. Free market is perhaps rough equivalent of anarchy (no regulations beyond 'what the market can bear') and that's totally different beast from democracy.

You can easily have free market lead to monopoly/oligopoly whose political equivalents (oligarchy etc) are nothing like democracy.

I think the general understanding of "free market" as preserving the actions of individuals stands. It was free market reforms that brought Pinochet to democratise Chile, and eventually stand trial for his crimes.

People keep saying that about free market leads to monopoly, but in fact I've always seen it quite different in practice. It is the interference of government, especially courts and "parliaments" like Ashcroft's, that supports and nourishes monopolies and nationalises industries.

And that's easily proven, court case after court case defending the rights of big biz in America.

Corporations are a legal animal that wouldn't exist too well if they didn't have such a body of law to support their legal existence.

CaleVinson · 07-18-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenda Connolly

But he seems to think that he will be able to foist this upon EVERYONE, whether they "subscribe" to his service or not. How does he propose to do that?

Well, at the mechanical level, we know it can be done - you don't get to chose to be subject to BanLink either.

Whether anyone will care about being banned from the Republic will depend on its size, and I doubt many here believe that it will amount to much.

That said, you have only to read the official forums or the blog to see quite a number of people crying out for some sort of justice system to protect themselves against SL's numerous scammers. LL won't/can't do anything, so I'm not surprised that a resident is having a go.

CaleVinson · 07-18-2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypatia Callisto

IT WONT APPLY IN CALEDON.

or Winterfell or Skybeam either.

FLEE TO US!

Indeed Hypatia.

Perhaps we should progress this a step further .....

Years of prosperity under the Golden Rule of our guvner, Desmond Shang, have convinced me that democracies such as this Metaverse Republic are clearly dangerous, and a threat to our tea and scones ways.

It may come to pass that Caledon will be forced to take military action against this upstart, purely in self-defense. What fellow despotic regimes will stand with us? Duchy of Darkmere, will you answer the call!?

Hypatia Callisto · 07-18-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaleVinson

Indeed Hypatia.

Perhaps we should progress this a step further .....

Years of prosperity under the Golden Rule of our guvner, Desmond Shang, have convinced me that democracies such as this Metaverse Republic are clearly dangerous, and a threat to our tea and scones ways.

It may come to pass that Caledon will be forced to take military action against this upstart, purely in self-defense. What fellow despotic regimes will stand with us? Duchy of Darkmere, will you answer the call!?

We shall maintain our neutrality, and continue our shipments of clotted cream and scones to whomever wishes to buy them.

Our Guvnah will ignore completely the siren calls of Ashcroft Burnham, as the people stand united in their free market capitalistic ways to sell our goods to whomever wishes to enter our lands to buy them.

Hypatia Callisto · 07-18-2008, 10:24 PM

PIRATE ROGUE TRADERS OF CALEDON UNTIED.

*g*

Isablan Neva · 07-18-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypatia Callisto

People keep saying that about free market leads to monopoly, but in fact I've always seen it quite different in practice. It is the interference of government, especially courts and "parliaments" like Ashcroft's, that supports and nourishes monopolies and nationalises industries.

The thing is, though, that government intervention in the free market is almost always exclusively at the behest of market titans with great wealth that they would rather increase and protect. Leaving wealth at the hands of a free market would expose them to the results of bad decisions/corruption/shit happening that everyone else has to deal with. We can't be having any of that. So, the market makers curry friends and make contributions in the right places to ensure that "regulations" and "rules" are to their benefit.

Just look at what is going on right now with the protections the SEC is offering to 19 "market makers" with friends in high places and half of our elected representatives owing them favors.

Dancien Graves · 07-18-2008, 10:27 PM

Seriously? Most of the knuckle draggers in SL can't even figure out that stealing from content creators is wrong. And they want to form some type of government?

Hypatia Callisto · 07-18-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isablan Neva

The thing is, though, that government intervention in the free market is almost always exclusively at the behest of market titans with great wealth that they would rather increase and protect. Leaving wealth at the hands of a free market would expose them to the results of bad decisions/corruption/shit happening that everyone else has to deal with. We can't be having any of that. So, the market makers curry friends and make contributions in the right places to ensure that "regulations" and "rules" are to their benefit.

Just look at what is going on right now with the protections the SEC is offering to 19 "market makers" with friends in high places and half of our elected representatives owing them favors.

You're confusing "free market" with "government interference" and my point still stands.

Government should be restrained from this kind of interference in a free market. I don't think any free marketeer would disagree. And we wouldn't even HAVE much of this problem if we didn't gut the 14th amendment with decisions such as the Slaughterhouse cases, which replaced the free market of butchers in Louisiana with a state owned racket. This was the decision that sent the South on its way to legal sanction of Jim Crow *and* set in motion the process that affirm corporate personhood through *federal law* today.

Slaughter-House Cases, 1873

Quote:

Facts: A Louisiana law of 1869 created a state corporation for the slaughtering of livestock. The corporation was given exclusive power to slaughter livestock, and all other private slaughterhouses were required to close. Independent butchers could use the corporations facilities for a charge, but could not conduct independent operations.

Well... that's not a free market, is it? *Individuals* were being forced *by government* to no longer practice their business.

Corporate personhood debate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

The notion of corporate personhood, then, has roots in the early history of the republic. Still, as the 19th century matured, manufacturing in the US, became more complex as the British Industrial Revolution generated new inventions and business processes which US industry copied. US industry was largely protected by tariffs from British and other foreign competition. The favored form for large businesses became the corporation because the corporation provided a mechanism to raise the large amounts of investment capital large business required especially for capital intensive yet risky projects such as railroads. And as these corporations came to dominate business life, they also began to dominate America's politicians, lawyers, courts and culture.

Quote:

Thomas Jefferson said, "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

Jefferson wanted an amendment in the Constitution to restrain monopolies, but didn't get his way. We're supporting corporate monopolies with our laws, and have been in a big way since the Civil War.

Isablan Neva · 07-18-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypatia Callisto

Well... that's not a free market, is it? *Individuals* were being forced *by government* to no longer practice their business.

We are actually in complete agreement

My point is that if you follow the money, there was somebody, somewhere who instigated the government interference. The government does stupid things on a regular basis, but anytime they are interfering in business it is because somebody with a very large wallet wants business interfered with for their own gain. Government is full of whores will do anything for a buck and they dance to the tune of those who have the most bucks.

Hypatia Callisto · 07-18-2008, 11:07 PM

Protectionism isn't consistent with a free market, and it's much to blame for why we have powerful corporations.

If corporations were restrained more from interfering with individuals such as what happened with Slaughterhouse, we'd have a far more diverse economy I believe. Maybe we wouldn't be as "powerful", because a free market that restrains monopolies has a way of dispersing wealth more evenly, but we'd still be just as free as Switzerland, I'd reckon.

(I blame the guns lol)

Kendra Bancroft · 07-18-2008, 11:27 PM

Geeeez

Even Neualtenburg quit with that shit and set up an artist's collective two years ago.

And as soon as I have a working computer --it's comin' back baby!

Isablan Neva · 07-18-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypatia Callisto

(I blame the guns lol)

I blame the greed. Hard to get rid of though, being as we're human and all that.

Hypatia Callisto · 07-18-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isablan Neva

I blame the greed. Hard to get rid of though, being as we're human and all that.

oh, was a joke about the guns keeping us free so far

Yeah... human greed is a big problem

Lucifer Baphomet · 07-19-2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaleVinson

Indeed Hypatia.

Perhaps we should progress this a step further .....

Years of prosperity under the Golden Rule of our guvner, Desmond Shang, have convinced me that democracies such as this Metaverse Republic are clearly dangerous, and a threat to our tea and scones ways.

It may come to pass that Caledon will be forced to take military action against this upstart, purely in self-defense. What fellow despotic regimes will stand with us? Duchy of Darkmere, will you answer the call!?

Ambassador Vinson.. if this is an official request, you know we shall of course stand shoulder to shoulder with our Caledonian Allies.

Khamon · 07-19-2008, 01:18 AM

It's as interesting as the official forum realignment oh and hair and stuff or something.

07-18-2008, 09:50 PM	#29 (permalink)
Hypatia Callisto i haz a mousie but i eated it. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 697 My Mood:	IT WONT APPLY IN CALEDON. or Winterfell or Skybeam either. FLEE TO US! __________________ "To begin with," said the Cat, "a dog's not mad. You grant that?" "I suppose so," said Alice. "Well, then," the Cat went on, "you see, a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad." "I call it purring, not growling," said Alice. "Call it what you like," said the Cat.

07-18-2008, 09:55 PM	#30 (permalink)
Vengence Opus juggernaut of dumb. this is horrible..here, have a taste! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: along the long, rainy river Posts: 2,027 My Mood: Awards: 1	can i be Judge Judy? pm me if you need an SL judge. seriously. possible sentences: - pummeling by watermelon gun. - forced to wear nooby clothing for one week. - box on the head, sent to welcome area with a "mentor" tag. - revocation of "HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" privileges. i really could go on, but please. pm. Judge Judy. thinks about it. __________________ “If you're losing your soul and you know it, then you've still got a soul left to lose.” ~ Charles Bukowski

07-18-2008, 10:27 PM	#37 (permalink)
Dancien Graves No Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 5,031 SL Join Date: 12/2006 Business: Graves-Tek/Club Baby Seals Blog Entries: 1 SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood: Awards: 1	Seriously? Most of the knuckle draggers in SL can't even figure out that stealing from content creators is wrong. And they want to form some type of government? __________________ BRUTAL

07-18-2008, 11:27 PM	#41 (permalink)
Kendra Bancroft Snarky Alien Grrl Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,853 SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood: Awards: 2	Geeeez Even Neualtenburg quit with that shit and set up an artist's collective two years ago. And as soon as I have a working computer --it's comin' back baby! __________________ http://www.cafepress.com/tabloidplanet

07-19-2008, 01:18 AM	#45 (permalink)
Khamon Taco's Grammar Slave Some Flowers and Trees Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,894 SL Join Date: November, 2003 Business: Fate Gardens Flowers and Trees SLShopper Ads: 2 My Mood:	It's as interesting as the official forum realignment oh and hair and stuff or something. __________________ Please Visit Our Gardens and Our Website

07-18-2008, 10:24 PM	#35 (permalink)
Hypatia Callisto i haz a mousie but i eated it. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 697 My Mood:	PIRATE ROGUE TRADERS OF CALEDON UNTIED. g

07-18-2008, 11:07 PM	#40 (permalink)
Hypatia Callisto i haz a mousie but i eated it. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 697 My Mood:	Protectionism isn't consistent with a free market, and it's much to blame for why we have powerful corporations. If corporations were restrained more from interfering with individuals such as what happened with Slaughterhouse, we'd have a far more diverse economy I believe. Maybe we wouldn't be as "powerful", because a free market that restrains monopolies has a way of dispersing wealth more evenly, but we'd still be just as free as Switzerland, I'd reckon. (I blame the guns lol)