SLUniverse Forums

Joshua Nightshade · 07-03-2008, 12:50 PM

Wow, how assy.

And arrogant.

I was kindof intrigued when I got wind of the NPIRL Gardens of blah blah thing and visited. Then I did some digging into the Not Possible IRL group and remembered where I recognized the name of the group owner, who was some really nasty individual who only adds and pimps up her friends or those who lick her ass.

A group that seeks to educate and promote really creative things in SL is fantastic. A closed-invite group that does that only via who you're friends with which has a vetting cabinet for who gets into the group sounds like a bunch of cliquish elitist jerks.

Now there are people involved in NPIRL that I really admire and enjoy, like Ordinal, but when I asked my friends how I get involved most of them were like "Don't bother, it's only her friends."

Charlemagne Allen · 07-03-2008, 12:50 PM

Rezzable sims are nice, but not 199 L just to visit-nice. I wonder if one can use a Mystitool or the like to disrupt the bots, though

Joshua Nightshade · 07-03-2008, 12:54 PM

I'm going to begin charging people L$400 to say robot or any synonym thereof.

Get to it.

Cristiano · 07-03-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

I think we all want better content in SL the thing is, we also know SL and it's users. They should too.

Just look at what Beebo said and you know they may not have thought this through. She is right, a $25L per visit fee is much better than $200 for something a person may have never seen or find they want to see again. If they do like it, they will be willing to pay again and get used to the idea, slowly.

I agree, they have not thought it out well. What would make more sense to me if I were going to do it would be to either charge a really small amount, or make a tourist group that you have to pay a fee to get into, and it would let you go to any of the sims as much as you want. $199 per visit is steep, but I would not think it expensive to join the group to access everything, especially if they make some of it open to everyone.

Cincia Singh · 07-03-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

While it may seem crazy because no one has really tried it before successfully, there has to be other business models besides either make stuff to sell or expecting donations to keep up an income - both are wildly unpredictable. The market in SL fluctuates and often times you go from making a lot one month to a fraction of that the next month, even for top retailers. Expecting donations or tips is something you also certainly can't rely on- donations are spotty, and people don't have an expectation of tipping for service the way they do in RL, even though they should tip.

Many people also thought that the web could never support sites that charged money to access, but some have content valuable enough to sustain that model. Nothing in SL has proven that valuable, I suppose. Rezzable's stuff is some of the highest quality I've seen, and I think is worth paying a small amount to explore, but thereis such a pushback against that idea that I'm not sure anyone can make that model fly - so instead we just more malls.

I know I'll get flamed again for this comment, but as long as the bulk of residents are "no payment information" there's precious little hope of ANY business model succeeding. They're just not going to make enough camping to spend on tipping or admission fees. I do my part by frequenting reputable designers and paying for clothes, tipping at EVERY club or build/sim I visit and encouraging others to tip.

Dimitrio Lewis · 07-03-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

I mean, I understand the concept, show everyone how great rezzable is then start making small charges. I just haven't seen such a model work even when people want to go, like to a club, let alone to see something they may have never seen before.

That said, older users like me may well spend a few hundred linden for a pass, I really doubt others would though.

Perhaps to some degree Rezzable have overestimated their reach. They probably imagined that by having Starax and other groundbreaking creators building for them, they would achieve an awe factor higher than anywhere else on the grid and eager people would be happy to pay for access to it. That was never likely to be sustainable though. There are so many inspiring people inworld these days unleashing their imaginations that nobody could hope to hold a monopoly on creativity. New building techniques, tricks, skills and inspiration are resonating across the grid and causing a cascading revolution of awesomesauce.

Joshua Nightshade · 07-03-2008, 12:59 PM

Well I make enough in sales to cover tier for my sim now. I took a hit on the setup fee which I'll likely never recoup, but as long as I break even I don't really care about turning a profit. I have a day(ish) job for that.

Dancien Graves · 07-03-2008, 01:01 PM

Who the hell comes to SL to make money anyways?

Joshua Nightshade · 07-03-2008, 01:03 PM

That's not what I meant either.

Lots of people pull a real, liveable income out of SL. It makes me jealous. I wish I could do that. I can't though and really lack the drive and interest to make it happen. But much respect and props to those who do.

Io Zeno · 07-03-2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancien Graves

Who the hell comes to SL to make money anyways?

Shut your mouth, people do make money and dammit I want to be one, someday.

prinţesă nină · 07-03-2008, 01:03 PM

sif i will pay to look at some sim

Dancien Graves · 07-03-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

That's not what I meant either.

Lots of people pull a real, liveable income out of SL. It makes me jealous. I wish I could do that. I can't though and really lack the drive and interest to make it happen. But much respect and props to those who do.

Yeah likewise. But if I do, that's an added bonus ya know? It's not I'm doing something specifically make cash. if I can pay tier with it, awesomesauce.

Io Zeno · 07-03-2008, 01:05 PM

Seriously, though, if all they want to do is pay their tier, it's uh, done every day in SL. I never made much of a profit but I could pay my rent. I'm sure they could to if they didn't think charging 400L for a pair of ordinary pants was a good business model.

People don't support sims like they do their public television station, you gotta earn it.

Winter Ventura · 07-03-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancien Graves

Who the hell comes to SL to make money anyways?

I certainly didn't. Making money just happened while I was busy moping.

<- (I really love that smiley)

Peter Stindberg · 07-03-2008, 01:25 PM

Thanks a lot for linking my blg entry here - I'm impressed at this discussion (feel free to leave a few comments on my blog as well). I personally would find a <= 50 L$ admittance fee per visit the better idea as well, if it HAS to be an admittance fee in the first place. With such a low fee I could also pay the tab if I want to show the sim to "poor" friends, and in turn they would not feel as uncomfortable compared to having me pay 199 L$ for them.

Basically Rezzable is trying to mix the economies again, charging prices to make a RL revenue which are simply too high inside the SL microeconomy.

Natalie P. · 07-03-2008, 01:29 PM

I wonder if they'll institute the charge for some sims and not others. Black Swan and Greenies I can see, because they're more tourist attractions, for want of a better term, though I don't think there is any sim so fantastic I'd pay 199L to have access to. I'm cheap in both lives, after all. But the Surfline sims? I love them, and hang out there frequently, just relaxing while I IM or the like. Ain't no way I'm paying to have the privilege to park my av some place pretty.

Siyu Suen · 07-03-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingrid N.

I wonder how much money they make selling stuff. Lots of Rezzable sims sell clothing now in addition to those sculptures, but I've generally found the stuff to be really overpriced for the quality offered. It was something like, 400 or 500L for a pair of striped pants, if I recall correctly.

Edit: I can't keep up with you people

Honestly, they wouldn't need to have such high prices if they didn't purchase the resell rights from the creators. I got an offer from Rightasrain to do a set of masks for Crimson Shadow, but I turned him down because I never do full perm items, and the question of crediting me was pretty murky. Really, they could be some of the best "malls" if they would just shed that idea of profiting off of others work directly, and instead charge rent to resident invited merchants. I seriously doubt they'd have issues meeting tier with that model, it's old but it works. I don't like satellite stores, but if I was invited to an absolutely gorgeous sim with a very strongly adhered theme, and asked to make items fitting that theme as well as pay rent... I would do it, definitely.

Can you imagine invited merchants like Kyoot Army, myself and Sinistyle all opening up shop on Carnival of Doom with twisted gothic circus items only available there? I can't believe they haven't thought of it.

Tary Allen · 07-03-2008, 01:54 PM

Paying for things we like and have quality its a reality, in both SL and RL, and we do pay for skins and clothes and furniture.

I think in the beggining SL had a cultural environement where paying for a show or to visit a sim was simply not plausible or even seen as ethics, maybe I'm wrong in this, I'm in SL only since march 2007.

But things change a lot, and I guess today this vision is not possible anymore, in the future I think that we will watch more and more services being paid for.

But this implies a cultural change too, and that is not made overnight, people just aren't used to pay for visiting sims or listen to live shows.

And this model of paying 199L for a permanent access is not going to work (at least I think so), I don't mind paying for visiting a park in RL, an entrance fee, not a lifetime payment, in Sl its the same for me. I would pay to visit Black Swan, that I think its a great sim, but I don't need permanent access to it.

Anyway my 2 cents on this

Penny Patton · 07-03-2008, 03:00 PM

I think a part of the problem is that, as nice as the Rezzable sims are, they're really novelties. That's really just due to the limitations of SL. Greenies Home makes for fantastic screenshots, and it's fun to look around and see what's there....but it's a statue. One big giant statue you can crawl around in. Toxic Gardens and Carnival of Doom have the little HUD things that add a little to the experience, but it's still a chuckle and an "ooo, neat". I don't know that many people feel compelled to return to the Rezzable sims time and again.

Add to that, the inflated idea of the L$'s worth in the minds of nearly everyone in SL ("L$199! That's expensive!" Actually, it's 70 cents, American.), and I don't see this business model working.

I kinda partly blame SL. Content creation tools and abilities have not substantially changed very much, and there's a lot of very basic things entirely absent, making the creation of a truly engaging and immersive experience difficult, if not impossible. (My thoughts being that it should be possible to make even an empty sim feel alive.) Therefore, however skilled creators are, the upper cap on what they can accomplish is very low, making it difficult for them to convince customers to pay them what their skills might be worth.

Additionally, in my experience it seems large corporations really do not do much research when it comes to opening a presence in SL, so what Rezzable offers for corporations looking to create an SL presence might go overlooked by those who'd most benefit from them.

That said, looking at the success of places like Grendel's Children, I can't help but suspect Rezzable would be a lot more successful if they substantially lowered the prices on items they sell. I've heard of a number of places doing well with donations, so that might help as well, allowing them to keep their sims running on minimal out of pocket expense. Possibly even at a profit. Maybe not enough to pay salaries on, but enough to cover the SL expenses at least, and certainly more than I expect them to make going this route.

Also, what Siyu said. I'm really shocked to learn that's how they run their business model. That's just....broken. I can't see it being sustainable in SL as it is now. Renting vendor space on the other hand, that's seems like a gold mine for those who do it.

07-03-2008, 12:50 PM	#26 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade SERIOUS WIZARD I HATE MAYA Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 21,993 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	Wow, how assy. And arrogant. I was kindof intrigued when I got wind of the NPIRL Gardens of blah blah thing and visited. Then I did some digging into the Not Possible IRL group and remembered where I recognized the name of the group owner, who was some really nasty individual who only adds and pimps up her friends or those who lick her ass. A group that seeks to educate and promote really creative things in SL is fantastic. A closed-invite group that does that only via who you're friends with which has a vetting cabinet for who gets into the group sounds like a bunch of cliquish elitist jerks. Now there are people involved in NPIRL that I really admire and enjoy, like Ordinal, but when I asked my friends how I get involved most of them were like "Don't bother, it's only her friends." __________________ joshuameadows.com \| blog.abstractavatars.com

07-03-2008, 12:50 PM	#27 (permalink)
Charlemagne Allen Big Damn Heroes doesn't care for your pathetic excuses, you filthy commoner! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,659 SL Join Date: February 2007 My Mood:	Rezzable sims are nice, but not 199 L just to visit-nice. I wonder if one can use a Mystitool or the like to disrupt the bots, though __________________ Charlemagne Allen: YOU'RE A RACIST! Charlemagne Allen: I HAVE CHATLOGS! smokergirl Lowenhar: HOMOPHOBE smokergirl Lowenhar: CONTENT THIEF Charlemagne Allen: RELIGION SUCKS DONKEY BALLS! smokergirl Lowenhar: KISS MY ASS YOU CLOSE MINDED HYPOCRIT Charlemagne Allen: YOU WERE AN ESCORT FOR BARN ANIMALS! smokergirl Lowenhar: I HAVE CHAT LOGS FROM A BLOG I SAW ON A FAN SITE, OWNED? YES I THINK SO Charlemagne Allen: ZOMG BIG SIG! Charlemagne Allen: ZOMG BIG SIG! [

07-03-2008, 01:01 PM	#33 (permalink)
Dancien Graves Cleared on all charges Raised by Sharks Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 3,936 SL Join Date: 12/2006 Business: Graves-Tek Blog Entries: 1 SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood: Awards: 1	Who the hell comes to SL to make money anyways? __________________

07-03-2008, 01:29 PM	#41 (permalink)
Natalie P. lol wut Have a fhtagn day! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 572 SL Join Date: 11/2006 My Mood:	I wonder if they'll institute the charge for some sims and not others. Black Swan and Greenies I can see, because they're more tourist attractions, for want of a better term, though I don't think there is any sim so fantastic I'd pay 199L to have access to. I'm cheap in both lives, after all. But the Surfline sims? I love them, and hang out there frequently, just relaxing while I IM or the like. Ain't no way I'm paying to have the privilege to park my av some place pretty. __________________ "Here I am once more in this scene of dissipation and vice, and I begin already to find my morals corrupted." - Jane Austen Validate me, dammit!

07-03-2008, 01:54 PM	#43 (permalink)
Tary Allen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 178 SL Join Date: 2007-03-27 My Mood:	Paying for things we like and have quality its a reality, in both SL and RL, and we do pay for skins and clothes and furniture. I think in the beggining SL had a cultural environement where paying for a show or to visit a sim was simply not plausible or even seen as ethics, maybe I'm wrong in this, I'm in SL only since march 2007. But things change a lot, and I guess today this vision is not possible anymore, in the future I think that we will watch more and more services being paid for. But this implies a cultural change too, and that is not made overnight, people just aren't used to pay for visiting sims or listen to live shows. And this model of paying 199L for a permanent access is not going to work (at least I think so), I don't mind paying for visiting a park in RL, an entrance fee, not a lifetime payment, in Sl its the same for me. I would pay to visit Black Swan, that I think its a great sim, but I don't need permanent access to it. Anyway my 2 cents on this __________________ "This is an important announcement. This is flight 121 to Los Angeles. If your travel plans today do not include Los Angeles, now would be a perfect time to disembark." Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001), "So Long and Thanks For All The Fish" http://taryallen.wordpress.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/tary_allen/

07-03-2008, 12:54 PM	#28 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade SERIOUS WIZARD I HATE MAYA Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 21,993 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	I'm going to begin charging people L$400 to say robot or any synonym thereof. Get to it.

07-03-2008, 12:59 PM	#32 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade SERIOUS WIZARD I HATE MAYA Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 21,993 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	Well I make enough in sales to cover tier for my sim now. I took a hit on the setup fee which I'll likely never recoup, but as long as I break even I don't really care about turning a profit. I have a day(ish) job for that.

07-03-2008, 01:03 PM	#34 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade SERIOUS WIZARD I HATE MAYA Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 21,993 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	That's not what I meant either. Lots of people pull a real, liveable income out of SL. It makes me jealous. I wish I could do that. I can't though and really lack the drive and interest to make it happen. But much respect and props to those who do.

07-03-2008, 01:03 PM	#36 (permalink)
prinţesă nină Banned adores her psycho Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: melbourne Posts: 4,360 SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood:	sif i will pay to look at some sim

07-03-2008, 01:05 PM	#38 (permalink)
Io Zeno MAD DOG Fucked Off Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 9,758 My Mood: Awards: 1	Seriously, though, if all they want to do is pay their tier, it's uh, done every day in SL. I never made much of a profit but I could pay my rent. I'm sure they could to if they didn't think charging 400L for a pair of ordinary pants was a good business model. People don't support sims like they do their public television station, you gotta earn it.

07-03-2008, 01:25 PM	#40 (permalink)
Peter Stindberg Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 12 SL Join Date: October 2006 Business: Babel Translations SLShopper Ads: 3 My Mood:	Thanks a lot for linking my blg entry here - I'm impressed at this discussion (feel free to leave a few comments on my blog as well). I personally would find a <= 50 L$ admittance fee per visit the better idea as well, if it HAS to be an admittance fee in the first place. With such a low fee I could also pay the tab if I want to show the sim to "poor" friends, and in turn they would not feel as uncomfortable compared to having me pay 199 L$ for them. Basically Rezzable is trying to mix the economies again, charging prices to make a RL revenue which are simply too high inside the SL microeconomy.

07-03-2008, 03:00 PM	#44 (permalink)
Penny Patton Punk Girl in Space Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 293 SL Join Date: 11/30/2005 My Mood:	I think a part of the problem is that, as nice as the Rezzable sims are, they're really novelties. That's really just due to the limitations of SL. Greenies Home makes for fantastic screenshots, and it's fun to look around and see what's there....but it's a statue. One big giant statue you can crawl around in. Toxic Gardens and Carnival of Doom have the little HUD things that add a little to the experience, but it's still a chuckle and an "ooo, neat". I don't know that many people feel compelled to return to the Rezzable sims time and again. Add to that, the inflated idea of the L$'s worth in the minds of nearly everyone in SL ("L$199! That's expensive!" Actually, it's 70 cents, American.), and I don't see this business model working. I kinda partly blame SL. Content creation tools and abilities have not substantially changed very much, and there's a lot of very basic things entirely absent, making the creation of a truly engaging and immersive experience difficult, if not impossible. (My thoughts being that it should be possible to make even an empty sim feel alive.) Therefore, however skilled creators are, the upper cap on what they can accomplish is very low, making it difficult for them to convince customers to pay them what their skills might be worth. Additionally, in my experience it seems large corporations really do not do much research when it comes to opening a presence in SL, so what Rezzable offers for corporations looking to create an SL presence might go overlooked by those who'd most benefit from them. That said, looking at the success of places like Grendel's Children, I can't help but suspect Rezzable would be a lot more successful if they substantially lowered the prices on items they sell. I've heard of a number of places doing well with donations, so that might help as well, allowing them to keep their sims running on minimal out of pocket expense. Possibly even at a profit. Maybe not enough to pay salaries on, but enough to cover the SL expenses at least, and certainly more than I expect them to make going this route. Also, what Siyu said. I'm really shocked to learn that's how they run their business model. That's just....broken. I can't see it being sustainable in SL as it is now. Renting vendor space on the other hand, that's seems like a gold mine for those who do it.