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Old 02-11-2018, 10:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Second Life in VR

Sadly I haven't been able to find out much on the state of this topic, since any search on YouTube for the terms "Second Life VR" leads to videos about VRchat or whatever. So I'll ask here.

I know that LL stopped trying to develop in-house compatibility for Oculus a while back. I suppose they made the decision because at the time Oculus was the only game in town, and headsets were stupidly expensive, and it looked like VR was a transient thing that wouldn't ever eventually take off.
But have there been any third-party solutions developed for visiting SL/OS in VR since then, now that VR headsets are becoming much cheaper and it's clear VR isn't a flash in the pan anymore?

Surely it must be possible; I know there are mobile browsers that have VR modes for use with those silly phone-VR headsets like Google Cardboard and whatnot. But of course, mobile browsers by nature are severely restricted in the quality of the 3D world they can display. Still, they seem to prove the concept that Second Life/OS can work with VR if there's a developer willing enough to code the functionality into a viewer.

Sooooo....is there such a developer for desktop SL? Does anyone know?
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It's called Sansar.

Sorry, Koda.
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Nah - Sansar is LL's project. It's why they stopped working on Oculus compatibility for SL.

Nothing is stopping anyone else from creating a VR solution for SL though, so far as I know...
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Ah ok got it. You meant someone other than LL.

Not sure what legalities might be involved, considering you are talking about having to deal with LL, at least to some extent, on it.

Maybe contact this guy? CtrlAltStudio


ETA: Here's a Hypergrid Business article that will tell you who Rowe is: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/201...udio-steps-up/
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
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They didn't freeze development because of Sansar, they did so because they couldn't come up with a viable way to consistently run SL at the framerates required to allow people to use VR without throwing up.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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They didn't freeze development because of Sansar, they did so because they couldn't come up with a viable way to consistently run SL at the framerates required to allow people to use VR without throwing up.
Ahhhh...yes, okay, that does make sense. In that case there may be any number of ways to get VR working but it would never make for a pleasant experience. That's too bad.

So I guess that VRchat thing is really the only hope for a SL-like VR experience. That's really too bad.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
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They didn't freeze development because of Sansar, they did so because they couldn't come up with a viable way to consistently run SL at the framerates required to allow people to use VR without throwing up.
I had an excess of framerate when I tried it, although part of that was due to VR being fubar with things like ALM entirely non-functional from the start.

I made two videos at the time to demonstrate:
https://streamable.com/wgys

https://streamable.com/jcjh

A lot of the performance issues can be fixed with optimized content. VR also highlights how bad most of SL is with poor scale.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I heard from an Alchemy viewer dev that they had proper VR support internally - but I haven't heard anything more about it since Sept 2017. For what that's worth.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I heard from an Alchemy viewer dev that they had proper VR support internally - but I haven't heard anything more about it since Sept 2017. For what that's worth.
Not much if I can't get to it.

Although, I don't even have a VR kit yet so I can't exactly complain. Just pondering getting one, and was curious about the state of VR when it comes to SL/OS. From what's been said so far, even if the Alchemy viewer did properly support VR, the SL/OS platform itself doesn't support an enjoyable experience because of the poor and inconsistent frame rate.
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
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VR also highlights how bad most of SL is with poor scale.
Yes. Jo Yardley was quite excited about that. 1920s Berlin, being one of the few sims built to a prim scale, got a lot of attention as a "go to" location for Oculous users. She even set up a little demo area of a couple of buildings at the landing point. Something you could have a poke around without having to dress your avatar to theme.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Does anyone know if its possible to use a phone and one of those cheap VR headsets to view your PC?

Like, it wouldn't be real 3D VR but just a fake Mouselook based VR. It would need to be able to translate the phone's Gyroscope to the PC Mouse I suppose.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:06 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Surely it must be possible; I know there are mobile browsers that have VR modes for use with those silly phone-VR headsets like Google Cardboard and whatnot. But of course, mobile browsers by nature are severely restricted in the quality of the 3D world they can display. Still, they seem to prove the concept that Second Life/OS can work with VR if there's a developer willing enough to code the functionality into a viewer.
I'm not sure about "mobile browsers that have VR modes" but the Lumiya viewer does include a VR mode for Cardboard and Daydream. It mostly doesn't work for me and doesn't show any of SL's more advanced graphics features, but I think it's the only game in town at this point.

Personally I expect untethered VR headsets (phones or not) will be the only market survivors, but mostly because they can hibernate through the winter of VR disillusionment without being killed outright.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:09 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Does anyone know if its possible to use a phone and one of those cheap VR headsets to view your PC?

Like, it wouldn't be real 3D VR but just a fake Mouselook based VR. It would need to be able to translate the phone's Gyroscope to the PC Mouse I suppose.
use one of these with google cardboard or cheap vr plastic ones you can get at walmart. it connects and streams across wifi to your phone.

i got Riftcat to work but talk about heat generator.... your battery will not like you.

https://riftcat.com/vridge

Kinoni

https://www.trinusvirtualreality.com/

you will have to get a VR desktop app seperately

http://store.steampowered.com/app/38...rtual_Desktop/
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:53 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm not sure about "mobile browsers that have VR modes" but the Lumiya viewer does include a VR mode for Cardboard and Daydream. It mostly doesn't work for me and doesn't show any of SL's more advanced graphics features, but I think it's the only game in town at this point.
I just tried it and the lag made me seasick in less than a minute. The frame rate was fine, but there was up to a second lag between turning my head and having the scene rotate to match, and then it would overshoot and rotate back.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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You guys were supposed to laugh when I said "it's called Sansar".
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:03 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Ha ha oh god that's so depressing.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Talking Sansar is not the solution

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It's called Sansar.

Sorry, Koda.
I really dislike sansar, it is beyond BORING and the graphics are bad.
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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VR might be much more stable once they move it to the cloud.
I dare mention also it may allow with new code for you to take better advantage of your modern HW vs. HW most no longer used by most that the 15yr+ code was written for.


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Old 02-13-2018, 06:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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VR might be much more stable once they move it to the cloud.
If you have a constant high CPU load and existing data centers, all moving to the cloud does is cost you more money. Cloud is for people who haven't set up a data center yet, are using a fairly vanilla software suite, or have wildly varying load or rapid growth.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Like move the compute to the cloud?

Never going to happen. Ever.

The latency will always be a problem. Every streaming game service has been a failure due to the latency issue and VR will be the same, games or "experiences". It will probably be worse given how much VR already makes people nauseated.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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If you have a constant high CPU load and existing data centers, all moving to the cloud does is cost you more money. Cloud is for people who haven't set up a data center yet, are using a fairly vanilla software suite, or have wildly varying load or rapid growth.
tried kitely once they are on clouds was good not sure if vr googles would hav workd in that place was not much lag in kitely or people
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:22 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Linden Lab gave up on SL VR way too soon. SL does have performance issues, but the performance gap that needs to be closed is far smaller than at the time when LL gave up on VR. Current VR runtimes and GPU drivers deliver massively better performance than they did when LL moved on from SL VR. Over time that will only continue to improve even without VR optimization on LL's part.

We're now at the mercy of a third party viewer dev getting the VR bug. ctrlaltstudio works well with Rift and Vive/SteamVR through ReVive and should do fine with Windows MR too but it is getting very ancient now. No Bento, no transactions and so on. I love SL in VR though.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Ctrl alt stuidio does not currently work with oculus unless you roll back the headset firmware. which is not easy to do ans I would not call that support...

plus we really need a hand-based UI like VR chat has. keyboards in vr are bad.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:56 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I feel like making VR work in SL wouldn't be that hard either.

It has a pretty nice mouselook, for starters. Maybe build in a client aide invisibubble so the user never sees their teeth.

Translating controls can't be that tricky once in mouselook.

Then its a matter of telling the viewer to render left and right views just slight askew from each other really.

I mean I don't know HOW exactly code wise, but it doesn't seem like a huge leap.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I'm holding out for a holodeck. What else is new?
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