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Old 01-16-2018, 10:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The No-Mod Rebuttal

The No-Mod Rebuttal

My opinion on no-mod content is no secret. I will almost never buy no-mod and neither should you if you value your money, your land or your avatar.

Okay, okay, there are exceptions. Scripts totally need to be no-mod or they are effectively full perm. When I talk about no-mod I'm referring to objects. The prims and mesh. I'm not suggesting scripts need to be full perm. (That's not to say some scripts aren't better off full perm, just that I understand script makers not always wanting their work to be full perm.)
Another possible exception would be items for closed gaming systems where modding could open them up to abuse and cheating. I'm not 100% sold on this as a simple examination of items in a game would reveal if they'd been tampered with but I'm generally willing to give this a pass as such items typically aren't used outside their game context. As for the rest...

When you buy no-mod you are giving up the right to personalize the object beyond whatever meager concessions the creator allows.

You give up all of this and more when you buy no-mod and get nothing in place of it. Oddly enough, the seller gets nothing by selling you no-mod items either so why, then, is so much content sold no-mod? Well, there's been a few reasons given over the years and we're going to look at each of these reasons one by one and see if they hold any water.

"It protects my work against content thieves/copybot!"
For over a decade this was not only the most common reason given, but the only reason given. There's one major flaw in this argument however: It is entirely, 100% false. It is simply not true. At no point was it ever true. The people who cling to this justification for no-mod simply do not understand how SL or "copybot" works. Some of those still clinging to this justification today know it's not true but are unwilling to admit they were wrong.

"I don't want my customers ruining my artistic vision!"
This isn't an argument. It isn't a justification. All it is is a declaration of the sellers own professional immaturity. If you're trying to sell anyone on the idea that no-mod somehow benefits the product this is certainly not going to change any minds.

"It cuts down on customer support I have to deal with from customers who break their purchases!"
Or, you know, you could box the content so that your customer always has a backup copy. You can also put in nice big letters "If you broke something, get a fresh copy from the box it came in." at the top of your customer support page. This achieves the exact same goal without crippling the item you're selling.

And that's pretty much it. These are the only three justifications I've ever seen for selling content no-mod and I always point out the fallacies in these attempts at justification but the person I'm trying to discuss the issue with either doesn't reply at all, or simply restates their original argument as if repeating themselves will somehow lessen my rebuttal.

How about you? Have you heard other justifications? Do you have some of your own that I might have overlooked? As no-mod becomes more and more prevalent (just try to buy a modifiable mesh body that isn't furry/anime these days, not to mention some of the frightening conversations on the topic over in Sansar discussion boards) I think it's more important than ever to make this a public discussion.
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Old 01-16-2018, 10:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Most of the stuff I make is clothes from full perm templates. The templates don't resize, and the texture for the clothing covers 100% of the surface, so tinting isn't really going to be useful.

Selling these things with mod permissions would effectively be selling people a private use (no transfer) full perm item. Since they could swap out the texture I put on the item for anything else. Which kind of feels like a disservice to the original template makers, and is probably against the TOS of the template to begin with.
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramen Jedburgh View Post
Most of the stuff I make is clothes from full perm templates. The templates don't resize, and the texture for the clothing covers 100% of the surface, so tinting isn't really going to be useful.

Selling these things with mod permissions would effectively be selling people a private use (no transfer) full perm item. Since they could swap out the texture I put on the item for anything else. Which kind of feels like a disservice to the original template makers, and is probably against the TOS of the template to begin with.
"The templates don't resize" - so they are rigged mesh, yes? Because every other full-perm template most definitely does.

The textures thing - How well optimized are your textures? If it's a 1024 on the item you're selling then you're stepping squarely into Penny's 4th bullet point. Oversized textures on avatar or clothing parts are perhaps the biggest optimization FAIL and framerate-wreckers on the grid - or a reason folks simply not see your creation at all because the wearer is jelly-dolled.

Calling a copy/mod/notrans object "effectively a private use full-perm copy" - well, duh, that's what that is for ANY object. They can copy it and they can mod it. That's just the "but my artistic vision!" thing in different terms.

"Probably against the template TOS" - You're buying the wrong templates then. The vast majority of template licenses out there forbid reselling full-perm and go no further than that on perms on your item. They may have other terms in their specific license relating to how you use it but as far as the perms you set are concerned, copy/mod/notrans is compliant with just about all of them. "Probably" is a worrying term for you to use anyway - I presume you actually have read the license terms for the templates you buy?

So what it boils down to is doing your customers a real disservice for the ostensible - and questionable - sake of avoiding an imaginary one to the template creator.
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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All objects and scripts in Agni should be No Mod, No Copy, and Non-transferable. It should be made that creators should create in Aditi, everything full perm there, and with no money exchange capability there, and then be able to upload their creations to the Marketplace and/or their vendors, and be able to add the items they create to their inventory to carry to the Agni grid. Parts of the Aditi grid to be set aside for the land/box rental by creators, from LL only, using the creators choice of using either the current server version or the next, to create their projects.

This would help ensure a continuous economy on Agni grid with the use of upload fees to the Marketplace or creators vendors from Aditi, and need to buy fresh copies of the items purchased on Agni grid by consumers. If the creator wishes to give a free replacement for an item they would need to do it in the Aditi grid.

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Old 01-16-2018, 11:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramen Jedburgh View Post
Most of the stuff I make is clothes from full perm templates. The templates don't resize, and the texture for the clothing covers 100% of the surface, so tinting isn't really going to be useful.

Selling these things with mod permissions would effectively be selling people a private use (no transfer) full perm item. Since they could swap out the texture I put on the item for anything else. Which kind of feels like a disservice to the original template makers, and is probably against the TOS of the template to begin with.
If you're using the template makers UV maps, AO passes and/or shading passes, any textures that can be made after the sale of your item won't be the same as yours.

Dismissing tinting because the texture cover 100% of the surface isn't really a useful argument either. Unless the item is black, a tint will still have the effect of reducing highlights and marrying colour correction to other items. The most useful tinting i do is a 10% grey or other subtle colour to make windlight settings work better for photos.
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramen Jedburgh View Post
Most of the stuff I make is clothes from full perm templates. The templates don't resize, and the texture for the clothing covers 100% of the surface, so tinting isn't really going to be useful.

Selling these things with mod permissions would effectively be selling people a private use (no transfer) full perm item. Since they could swap out the texture I put on the item for anything else. Which kind of feels like a disservice to the original template makers, and is probably against the TOS of the template to begin with.
Would you refer your customers to the template you purchased when they ask you for a mod version?
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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How about you? Have you heard other justifications? Do you have some of your own that I might have overlooked?
It’s not as common since sculpts and then mesh, but protecting math against competition used to be a legitimate reason *to me*. By making things no mod, it hides (or used to hide) the prim values. I respected this the same way I respect most scripts being no mod. If someone spent hours/days/weeks figuring out the perfect math to create a specific design, I don’t think they should have to surrender their time and effort to someone that can immediately reproduce it. I viewed this as a necessary evil of the system. Most people would have been fine allowing people to resize/scale or tint, but not give up their actual work and effort. To me, that was a legitimate security concern. Mesh items don’t have this concern and there aren’t many items these days that take a huge part of their value from the math of their prim settings.

I’m also sympathetic to people who give out copy/transfer items that set them no mod so their items can’t be utilized by others in a way that shows them as creater of an end product they had nothing to do with.
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny Patton View Post
How about you? Have you heard other justifications?
But if they can change the color tint on my no-mod objects, they won't buy my differently-tinted versions becauses they'll just tint it themselves.

Then I won't make any money.
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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But if they can change the color tint on my no-mod objects, they won't buy my differently-tinted versions becauses they'll just tint it themselves.

Then I won't make any money.
My argument for that classic reason has always been sell them all as a fat pack for just under the price of 3 items. It’s a much better deal for your customers!

PS: Little do they know that even with a scripted texture change item, if it's mod i'll STILL tint the item and even change the texture myself!

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Old 01-16-2018, 03:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Would you refer your customers to the template you purchased when they ask you for a mod version?
Actually I have and would.
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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But if they can change the color tint on my no-mod objects, they won't buy my differently-tinted versions becauses they'll just tint it themselves.

Then I won't make any money.
This is certainly an unspoken reason for some.

And my response to them is that if they put care into their colour range, rather than being lazy hue/saturation slider-monkeys, then their customers will still see the point of buying more than one version especially if items are mod.
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Da5id Weatherwax View Post
Calling a copy/mod/notrans object "effectively a private use full-perm copy" - well, duh, that's what that is for ANY object. They can copy it and they can mod it. That's just the "but my artistic vision!" thing in different terms.
Its not as much as caring about people editing textures I made and more about how it means they can pay me 50L or so for my thing instead of buying the template themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da5id Weatherwax View Post
"Probably against the template TOS" - You're buying the wrong templates then. The vast majority of template licenses out there forbid reselling full-perm and go no further than that on perms on your item. They may have other terms in their specific license relating to how you use it but as far as the perms you set are concerned, copy/mod/notrans is compliant with just about all of them. "Probably" is a worrying term for you to use anyway - I presume you actually have read the license terms for the templates you buy?
I don't keep track of the nuances because I have bought from a dozen or so different makers. Mostly I check for if it can be resold, minimum resale price, terms on the textures and shadow maps etc, and if it can be a free item at all.

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Originally Posted by Da5id Weatherwax View Post
"
So what it boils down to is doing your customers a real disservice for the ostensible - and questionable - sake of avoiding an imaginary one to the template creator.
This isn't an imaginary disservice, its a real one. If someone is just wanting to make their own personal use clothing, then they could essentially just buy something I was selling for a fraction of the cost of the actual templates. Which does a disservice to people who are selling things for the explicit purpose of letting people make their own things.

I do kind of wish that there was some level of nuance to the permissions, like to allow recoloring or tinting with less permissions in other areas, like retexturing.

And I will also add that things that I have made, with prims or whatever, I have always jist given that stuff away, with all the permissions I can give it. Not that its anything anyone would want.

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Old 01-16-2018, 05:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Penny Patton View Post
How about you? Have you heard other justifications? Do you have some of your own that I might have overlooked? .
The things we sell that are no mod are because they rely on snapshots.
No amount of modding will change that.
Interact with it and it resets back to the original size, texture, tint, rotation whatever it was to start with.

And just one comment about your box your items, most customers ask for no box. They want their stuff delivered nicely in a folder.
One way to get around this is to include a boxed version in the folder in case they never made a copy of the original.
Then ad infinitum.. they get another copy.
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Old 01-16-2018, 06:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I think the situation is really simple.
A merchant produces product X, with permissions Y, for the price of Z L$.
The merchant will have thought over X,Y and Z and has come to a conclusion about which works best fot him/her.
If a potential customer doesn't like it, he/she can take their business elsewhere.
Same as in RL.
Do you have that T shirt also available in XXXL?
If the answer is no.... bad luck and move on.
Discussion with the merchant will not likely help.
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramen Jedburgh View Post
Most of the stuff I make is clothes from full perm templates. The templates don't resize, and the texture for the clothing covers 100% of the surface, so tinting isn't really going to be useful.

Selling these things with mod permissions would effectively be selling people a private use (no transfer) full perm item. Since they could swap out the texture I put on the item for anything else. Which kind of feels like a disservice to the original template makers, and is probably against the TOS of the template to begin with.

There have been countless times where I wanted/needed to fix an item from a template reseller shop, but could not due to said item being no mod. Poor VRAM usage is a very common reason for me, then there's wanting to better match the item to the rest of my outfit (you wouldn't believe how much even "white" varies"), or to fix the alpha since the reseller uploaded the texture as blended and now it clips with everything. If the item is no mod though, then none of the above is possible.

Anything anyone sells in Second Life is giving people private use of an item, more so of it's mod I suppose, but there are an endless amount of shops that sell things mod for just this reason (see the furry and anime communities especially). It's also worth mentioning that being able to swap out the texture or do whatever else you wanted used to be standard in Second Life. A large part of what made SL great to begin with was making items your own. These days I tend to skip template clothing entirely unless the seller somehow has acceptable VRAM or sells the items mod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramen Jedburgh View Post
Its not as much as caring about people editing textures I made and more about how it means they can pay me 50L or so for my thing instead of buying the template themselves.
The only reason I, and I am sure many people, but template clothing from resellers is because it is significantly cheaper than buying the actual template. I'd rather spend $120 lindens than thousands. I filter marketplace listings to only look for mod, just like a lot of people out there, so making things no mod loses a lot of potential business.

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Originally Posted by SalStrange View Post
By making things no mod, it hides (or used to hide) the prim values. I respected this the same way I respect most scripts being no mod. If someone spent hours/days/weeks figuring out the perfect math to create a specific design, I don’t think they should have to surrender their time and effort to someone that can immediately reproduce it.
Showing prim values, even on no mod content you do not own, is entirely client-side, all it takes is a trivial edit to the viewer. It is entirely undetactable to LL or anyone else and has not been an actual legitimate defense ever since the viewer code was made open source.

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The things we sell that are no mod are because they rely on snapshots.
No amount of modding will change that.
Interact with it and it resets back to the original size, texture, tint, rotation whatever it was to start with.
Is this alpha swapping between different mesh version states, or another kind of prim animating? If it's the former, then mod is still quite useful. I have gone so far as to rescript alpha swapping pets to use masking, scaled them better, and unlinked for a static display version. Then of course there's the usual VRAM fix.
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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My opinion on no-mod content is no secret. I will almost never buy no-mod and neither should you if you value your money, your land or your avatar.
I have no issue with people preferring items be mod. Given my druthers, I favour mod/copy items myself.

What I do not do however, is try and snidely imply I'm morally superior to people who don't care as much about their extremely minor virtual purchases as I do.

Oh no! People are spending their pocket change in ways I don't agree with! That means I'm a better person than they are! Seriously? Fuck off.
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Is this alpha swapping between different mesh version states, or another kind of prim animating? If it's the former, then mod is still quite useful. I have gone so far as to rescript alpha swapping pets to use masking, scaled them better, and unlinked for a static display version. Then of course there's the usual VRAM fix.
This is different animations or states pertaining to specific sits.
Each different action, state, size or position/rotation is caused by a trigger script that is fixed to a specific seating choice on the menu.
Link numbers are also important for this to work properly.

People have asked me for an unscripted static version or even just a mod version.. and I am always happy to give it to them.
No matter what Penny says, giving a mod ver of this kind of item results in a massive amount of unnecessary customer service.
Even if we give detailed NC with what happens with mod.. and that mod is not possible or please make a copy .. or you have another one still in the box.. the massive increase in dealing with ppl who don't read is just not worth the trouble.
Dealing with the way, way, way fewer requests for mod ok is the easier path for me.
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Old 01-16-2018, 08:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Look it's pretty fucking simple: As much as some would like to pretend otherwise the type, utility, quality, permissions and a whole range of other variables on sold items within Second Life's Marketplace as well as "in world" are driven primarily by buyers. Yes the differing markets (furniture, bodies, components, decor and such) have their varied sub-markets with their own expectations of what is considered the "norm" but do not ever forget that what we see being sold is a direct reflection of what the average user expects and buys.

With a few exceptions the average user is not looking to buy an item that they could later alter, they're looking for the closest they can find to whatever it is they're looking for and if nothing comes even somewhat close they tend to throw their virtual arms up in frustration and complain that they cannot find what they're looking for.

Yes, some might buy a modifiable item and later try and alter it to suit another purpose or need though most of these sorts are nowhere close to even amateur level when it comes to design of any sort. A smaller number might actually be able to make a decentish alteration ... and so on.

Like tinkering around with things you've bought? Have the skill to make alterations that don't look like shit? Lovely! You're outnumbered - deal with it.

Unless you can change the minds of the majority of those actually buying these items, you're screaming into the wind at best, screaming into the void at worst.

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Old 01-16-2018, 08:58 PM   #19 (permalink)
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What I do not do however, is try and snidely imply I'm morally superior to people who don't care as much about their extremely minor virtual purchases as I do.

Oh no! People are spending their pocket change in ways I don't agree with! That means I'm a better person than they are! Seriously? Fuck off.
This isn't how I interpereted Penny's post at all. What I gathered is that she was trying to get people to realize the benefits of mod content, and that you can get more from your land, value from money, and avatar once a person realizes the importance.

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People have asked me for an unscripted static version or even just a mod version.. and I am always happy to give it to them.
No matter what Penny says, giving a mod ver of this kind of item results in a massive amount of unnecessary customer service.
Even if we give detailed NC with what happens with mod.. and that mod is not possible or please make a copy .. or you have another one still in the box.. the massive increase in dealing with ppl who don't read is just not worth the trouble.
Dealing with the way, way, way fewer requests for mod ok is the easier path for me.
I am certain most people generally avoid contacting creators if possible, for various reasons, even if it means potentially getting something they want. If I had such a problem prone item, I'd still do something like include a clearly labeled mod version in the folder. It could even give a warning message to use the no mod version with a confirmation dialog that would cause the item to self delete if somebody didn't read properly. Giving people the option is always good.

In most cases I'd groan at the creator for not wanting to deal with customer support/requests since that comes with the territory of having the shop. In your case though I can kind of understand the reasoning since, while I am not familiar with your products, they sound more complex and prone to problems than usual if people mess with them.
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Look it's pretty fucking simple: As much as some would like to pretend otherwise the type, utility, quality, permissions and a whole range of other variables on sold items within Second Life's Marketplace as well as "in world" are driven primarily by buyers.
People don't buy things because they're no mod, or because they use 200MBs of VRAM for a skirt, they buy them because of how something looks. A lot of users don't have the knowledge or ability to modifty anything, and will blindly buy something just because it looks nice, but that does not mean that the item being no mod is driving sales, not remotely.

Most everyone I know only buys no mod stuff reluctantly because there are no other options for what they're going for. Given the option a whole lot of people out there love modding stuff, and it generally does no harm to make something mod. The plague of clothing and bodies being no mod is primarily a problem with the human avatar market.

It is good you edited your post to remove the bit about avatar height, because that was an absolutely atrocious, inaccurate comparison.
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Vaelissa Cortes View Post
People don't buy things because they're no mod, or because they use 200MBs of VRAM for a skirt, they buy them because of how something looks. A lot of users don't have the knowledge or ability to modifty anything, and will blindly buy something just because it looks nice, but that does not mean that the item being no mod is driving sales, not remotely.

Most everyone I know only buys no mod stuff reluctantly because there are no other options for what they're going for. Given the option a whole lot of people out there love modding stuff, and it generally does no harm to make something mod. The plague of clothing and bodies being no mod is primarily a problem with the human avatar market.

It is good you edited your post to remove the bit about avatar height, because that was an absolutely atrocious, inaccurate comparison.
About the response I expected.

Nowhere did I say that an item being no-mod was a factor the average user looks for when purchasing an item. Nowhere. If the average user gave two tin shits about modding an item then they'd either buy modable items as often as they could, or make them themselves. The average user doesn't care and buys whatever fits what they are looking for or suits their fancy. They do not look to see if the item in question can be modded.

It is lovely that you believe your friends and acquaintances somehow make up a majority of the average user base - you do not. If you did, the present market conditions would not exist - you'd be seeing far more moddable content.

The section I removed was to preempt the exact sort of bullshit in your closing remark - it was a perfect example of the bog average user driving the market.

Do better.

ETA: On the topic of avatars, their clothing and such; There actually was a time when system level skins, shapes and even clothing (as well as prim based clothing) had a mix of mod and no mod options on the market. This mix kept tipping from one to the other as dictated by sales. At the time you had quite a few more average users in Second Life that gave a damn about modding what they bought as opposed to simply buying whatever suited their fancy or came close - though not nearly enough to make mod a standard, expected permission.

Ditto with avatar components - at least with human or near human avatars.

This did change over time, like it or not. More and more the average user cared less and less about being able to directly modify what they bought for their avatars. Don't believe me? Ask yourself just exactly why those who refuse to sell their wares as mod are still in business.

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Old 01-16-2018, 11:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spirits Rising View Post
Nowhere did I say that an item being no-mod was a factor the average user looks for when purchasing an item.
This thread is specfically about modify permissions, so when you say "the type, utility, quality, permissions and a whole range of other variables on sold items within Second Life's Marketplace as well as "in world" are driven primarily by buyers.", suggests the permissions, specifically modify rights or lack there of, are part of what drives the sale of items. It is not difficult for anyone to come to that conclusion given the context of this thread.

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The average user doesn't care and buys whatever fits what they are looking for or suits their fancy. They do not look to see if the item in question can be modded.
Which is part of what I said in my previous post. The item being sold as no mod is not a contributor to the sales the creator is making, making it modify can only increase sales and make those who do value mod rights happy.

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It is lovely that you believe your friends and acquaintances somehow make up a majority of the average user base - you do not.
I never said this was the case either. Saying "everyone I know" is not the same as saying that we make up the majority of users. This is probably obvious to literally everyone else reading, but I thought I would clear it up for you specifically.

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Originally Posted by Spirits Rising View Post
The section I removed was to preempt the exact sort of bullshit in your closing remark - it was a perfect example of the bog average user driving the market.

Do better.
It was not relevant because avatar height is due to an entirely different problem. It is a matter of not knowing better rather than sales. Unlike with mod rights, once people do see the problem with shapes/height, a significant portion of them can't ever unsee it. They typically change their ways as a result, and are thankful for it.

I don't have to "do better" since I'm not trying to compete with anyone.
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Actually I have and would.
Then you’re working within the retrictions of the system in good faith and I wouldn’t have any problem being one of your customers. But unless your policy was easy to find (in your CSR documentation or profile) I probably wouldn’t even consider your items due to the bad faith of so many others. I think this is one way those that use no-mod in bad faith can hurt other vendors as well as customer rights.
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelissa Cortes View Post
This thread is specfically about modify permissions, so when you say "the type, utility, quality, permissions and a whole range of other variables on sold items within Second Life's Marketplace as well as "in world" are driven primarily by buyers.", suggests the permissions, specifically modify rights or lack there of, are part of what drives the sale of items. It is not difficult for anyone to come to that conclusion given the context of this thread.

It suggests no such thing. If a specific set of these variables sells better than another, that is the set a creator will use -
this includes the permissions.


Which is part of what I said in my previous post. The item being sold as no mod is not a contributor to the sales the creator is making, making it modify can only increase sales and make those who do value mod rights happy.

And yet we rather clearly see that the majority of buyers do not care. Until that changes, you'll not see much of a change.
Those selling no mod items do not believe their gains would be significant enough to alter the permissions they use.


I never said this was the case either. Saying "everyone I know" is not the same as saying that we make up the majority of users. This is probably obvious to literally everyone else reading, but I thought I would clear it up for you specifically.

Mkay, shall we go over what exactly you said in that section?

"Most everyone I know only buys no mod stuff reluctantly because there are no other options for what they're going for. Given the option a whole lot of people out there love modding stuff, and it generally does no harm to make something mod. The plague of clothing and bodies being no mod is primarily a problem with the human avatar market."

You started out perfectly fine by stating that those you know only buy no mod items reluctantly and even stated why. You then went on to claim that "A whole lot of people out there love modding stuff" which is rather a different statement than it being limited to just those you know/are friends with. Outside of your circle of friends and those who bother to respond read, let alone respond to, threads here or over on the official forum ... you have no data to make such a statement.


It was not relevant because avatar height is due to an entirely different problem. It is a matter of not knowing better rather than sales. Unlike with mod rights, once people do see the problem with shapes/height, a significant portion of them can't ever unsee it. They typically change their ways as a result, and are thankful for it.

It was and is perfectly relevant and was indeed at least partially sale driven. There are plenty of issues - valid ones at that -
with most content being no modify. The major difference happens to be that the majority of average users do not care if they can modify the objects they buy. They did however care enough about how realistic they appeared and thus ... the market changed.


I don't have to "do better" since I'm not trying to compete with anyone.

Oh but you most certainly do have to do better.
You're regurgitating things I have heard and read several times,
in many different ways prior to this. It has nothing to do with competition and everything to do with presenting your idea and ideal differently.
Each and every time this supposed discussion pops up, it is more or less phrased in such a manner as to chastise those making the items in question instead of being aimed where it belongs: At those making the purchases.

I'd love to see more moddable content - for that matter I'd like to see more high quality moddable content.

I'm not going to hold my breath and set my crosshairs on those making the content though.

You want things to change? You'll have to change the buying habits of the average customer.
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think the situation is really simple.
A merchant produces product X, with permissions Y, for the price of Z L$.
The merchant will have thought over X,Y and Z and has come to a conclusion about which works best fot him/her.
If a potential customer doesn't like it, he/she can take their business elsewhere.
Same as in RL.
Do you have that T shirt also available in XXXL?
If the answer is no.... bad luck and move on.
Discussion with the merchant will not likely help.
And if the SL market were still closer to an even playing field, I’d be more sympathetic to this view. But the failure of Linden Lab to address and update the gap between the quality of the basic avatar and quality of the avatars the majority of the user base wants to use has created a bunch of power players and walled gardens that have significantly disadvantaged consumer power.

You’re essentially saying that someone having a problem with their cable provider is free to give up their high speed internet and go back to dial up. It’s technically true, but it ignores the power dynamics and options at play.
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