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Old 11-10-2017, 08:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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SL Article In The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...amison/544149/
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Fascinating article, probably the best I've ever read about SL.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Philip Rosedale, Second Life’s creator, used to wander the virtual world as an avatar named Philip Linden. “I was like a god,” he says.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Praise Philip!
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Praise Philip!
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That is the best SL article I have ever read.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Wow! Definitely one of the best articles I have ever read about SL. The good and the bad were all presented in a well thought out manner. Clearly, this is someone that did not just take a quick tour but spent a LOT of time trying to experience what Sl is like.

One thing that jumped out at me was the complete absence of Ebbe. I guess he was in Sansar, waiting for something to happen...and waiting, and waiting.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Decent article, yes. I suppose it's too much to hope for a magazine to assign a writer who's actually in SL's target demographic. It's inevitable really that a young mother with a husband, career and very very busy RL would find RL more engaging (and demanding of her attention!) than SL. She did rise above that in her clear admiration of Gentle Heron and others she interviewed. I think she was at her best in even-handedly interviewing Philip and relating the Lab's, and SL's, checkered past.

I was impressed by her realization that her embarrassment at her newbie blunders was a sign of immersion. And her relation of a really pretty typical newbie experience, given that (like most people) she was using a not bad (but, it seemed, barely up to SL's demands) computer, was once again an indictment of Linden's continual failure to provide a good initial encounter with SL.

Although she faithfully repeated what people told her about the appeal of SL, it's too bad that she didn't experience its appeal herself. To me, it says more about her than about SL that at one point she was left feeling like she needed a shower, lol!
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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A follow up article about the article and surprisingly x2, no dongs until the comments,
But most of the comments were surprisingly dong-free too.
I’m surprised there are this many comments on it though.
https://kotaku.com/looking-back-on-t...ife-1820376952
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nika Talaj View Post
Decent article, yes. I suppose it's too much to hope for a magazine to assign a writer who's actually in SL's target demographic. It's inevitable really that a young mother with a husband, career and very very busy RL would find RL more engaging (and demanding of her attention!) than SL. She did rise above that in her clear admiration of Gentle Heron and others she interviewed. I think she was at her best in even-handedly interviewing Philip and relating the Lab's, and SL's, checkered past.

I was impressed by her realization that her embarrassment at her newbie blunders was a sign of immersion. And her relation of a really pretty typical newbie experience, given that (like most people) she was using a not bad (but, it seemed, barely up to SL's demands) computer, was once again an indictment of Linden's continual failure to provide a good initial encounter with SL.

Although she faithfully repeated what people told her about the appeal of SL, it's too bad that she didn't experience its appeal herself. To me, it says more about her than about SL that at one point she was left feeling like she needed a shower, lol!
I spent years helping people over their first few days as a mentor, and then years helping people from business gain experience of SL. What I noted was the extreme difference in attitude to the virtual world engendered by the reason someone was there in the first place.

Someone who comes in of their own accord, for reasons of curiosity, or because they think they can make money or obtain sex, or find a creative outlet, has a much more open and vulnerable psychological attitude compared with someone who comes in with a fixed hat as a company rep or academic rep or journalist with a story to write. In the former case, I found people were very often inappropriately open about their lives, giving personal details which they would never disclose to a stranger in RL, and often having the feeling that IMs were giving them access to other people's inner selves.

It takes a couple of weeks in most cases for people to begin to understand their environment and to put up the same psychological barriers that people normally have in RL. I honestly believe this is part of the problem when it comes to maintaining people's interest in SL. Many of them feel so exposed in the virtual land where they can be anything that they are very uncomfortable. We learn the rules of RL gradually as we grow up, but people seem to feel cast adrift in virtual worlds, and the mode of communication seems intrusive to some and exciting to others, but strange to most. Somehow live IM to another person in SL seems to be different from texting and messaging someone in RL, in the same way that an email seems qualitatively different from a letter even though they are principally the same thing.

I've never experienced that with company directors and academics or journalists - they aren't open in the same way. It may be impossible for someone who is trying to preserve their professional position as a serious journalist to experience SL in the way that an individual without that hat on can do. It's something that has fascinated me about the experience of being in world, the way that people regard others in the world, the way that they present themselves and the way that shapes their experience in the world.

I'm not immune - my avatar is 25 and staying at 25, and I present her as an attractive white woman. She behaves as I hope I would behave in whatever circumstances she finds herself online. I have tried to learn from the people I have had contact with, I've made mistakes but tried not to make the same mistakes repeatedly, and I've observed and tried not to judge other people's ways of being in SL. But there is a definite difference brought about by the mindset with which you enter the virtual world, which is very difficult to change. Not impossible, but very difficult, and you have to be aware of the difference in attitude to know that it needs changing.

I agree that the article was well researched and written, but the 'needing a shower' thing was likely to confirm people's prejudices, and I don't think someone who doesn't get it can possibly give insight to others about the reasons that those of us who still find SL compelling, still find SL compelling. They always do see it in terms of escapism and not in terms of freedom and creativity and endless possibilities.
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliandris View Post
I spent years helping people over their first few days as a mentor, and then years helping people from business gain experience of SL. What I noted was the extreme difference in attitude to the virtual world engendered by the reason someone was there in the first place.

Someone who comes in of their own accord, for reasons of curiosity, or because they think they can make money or obtain sex, or find a creative outlet, has a much more open and vulnerable psychological attitude compared with someone who comes in with a fixed hat as a company rep or academic rep or journalist with a story to write. In the former case, I found people were very often inappropriately open about their lives, giving personal details which they would never disclose to a stranger in RL, and often having the feeling that IMs were giving them access to other people's inner selves.

It takes a couple of weeks in most cases for people to begin to understand their environment and to put up the same psychological barriers that people normally have in RL. I honestly believe this is part of the problem when it comes to maintaining people's interest in SL. Many of them feel so exposed in the virtual land where they can be anything that they are very uncomfortable. We learn the rules of RL gradually as we grow up, but people seem to feel cast adrift in virtual worlds, and the mode of communication seems intrusive to some and exciting to others, but strange to most. Somehow live IM to another person in SL seems to be different from texting and messaging someone in RL, in the same way that an email seems qualitatively different from a letter even though they are principally the same thing.

I've never experienced that with company directors and academics or journalists - they aren't open in the same way. It may be impossible for someone who is trying to preserve their professional position as a serious journalist to experience SL in the way that an individual without that hat on can do. It's something that has fascinated me about the experience of being in world, the way that people regard others in the world, the way that they present themselves and the way that shapes their experience in the world.

I'm not immune - my avatar is 25 and staying at 25, and I present her as an attractive white woman. She behaves as I hope I would behave in whatever circumstances she finds herself online. I have tried to learn from the people I have had contact with, I've made mistakes but tried not to make the same mistakes repeatedly, and I've observed and tried not to judge other people's ways of being in SL. But there is a definite difference brought about by the mindset with which you enter the virtual world, which is very difficult to change. Not impossible, but very difficult, and you have to be aware of the difference in attitude to know that it needs changing.

I agree that the article was well researched and written, but the 'needing a shower' thing was likely to confirm people's prejudices, and I don't think someone who doesn't get it can possibly give insight to others about the reasons that those of us who still find SL compelling, still find SL compelling. They always do see it in terms of escapism and not in terms of freedom and creativity and endless possibilities.
thank you for this very thoughtful post, Caliandris - you really made me think. and i feel youve described something very interesting.

to me, theres something about acting via your avatar that can be very freeing ... and it does take an amount of immersion and identifying with your avatar.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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last comment on that page is a person posting one of those fun 'troll' videos. not what we need more of is 2 year olds and their hijinks.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If he thinks that SL is nothing but empty perfection, he should visit my place. It may still be empty but it's deliberately far from perfect: it's a bayou flooded from a broken irrigation system, populated by random giant animals and a crashed mail truck.
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Old 11-15-2017, 03:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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A lot of the article focused on residents' attitudes regarding perfection and imperfection. I think it is a theme relevant to Linden Lab as well.

Second Life has never fulfilled Philip's original grandiose vision for it, and has never achieved the popularity of the gargantuan Facebook. It seems to me that Linden Lab's approach to Second Life now is guided by the shame of keeping less than 36,000,000 users, and not by pride in the value that it provides to 600,000 active users.
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Old 11-15-2017, 05:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Stonecutter View Post
If he thinks that SL is nothing but empty perfection, he should visit my place. It may still be empty but it's deliberately far from perfect: it's a bayou flooded from a broken irrigation system, populated by random giant animals and a crashed mail truck.
But you built it like that. It's a bayou caused by a broken waterpipe because you (or someone else if you're not the builder) deliberately designed it that way. That's not disorder, that's order, carefully organised to give the illusion of disorder and imperfection.
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Old 11-15-2017, 06:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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But you built it like that. It's a bayou caused by a broken waterpipe because you (or someone else if you're not the builder) deliberately designed it that way. That's not disorder, that's order, carefully organised to give the illusion of disorder and imperfection.
For very very small values of "carefully". It's the result of duelling builders during the period the Coonspiracy was an active group with each member donating their First Land to the cause. It evolved to the "bayou" over months and then gradually annealed over years.
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:31 AM   #18 (permalink)
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If he thinks that SL is nothing but empty perfection, he should visit my place.
Who is "he"?

The article was written by a woman.

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I imagined falling under the thrall of Second Life: a wide-eyed observer seduced by the culture she had been dispatched to analyze.
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Leslie Jamison is the author of The Empathy Exams, a collection of essays. Her next book, The Recovering, will be published in April.]

Last edited by Soda Sullivan; 11-16-2017 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:32 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Who is "he"?

The article was written by a woman.
Oh, bother, I'm sorry.

If she thinks that SL is nothing but empty perfection, she should visit my place.
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:56 AM   #20 (permalink)
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In my opinion, if the author was going to mention Anshe Chung as the first virtual Millionaire in Second life, she should also show the achievement of Stoker Serpentine for his then novel idea of creating adult animations in Furniture.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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In my opinion, if the author was going to mention Anshe Chung as the first virtual Millionaire in Second life, she should also show the achievement of Stoker Serpentine for his then novel idea of creating adult animations in Furniture.
I was actually thinking about this too. Mainly because she casually mentions the origination of the poseball and animations, but does not mention Stoker.

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They move by walking, flying, teleporting, and clicking on “poseballs,” literal floating orbs that animate avatars into various actions: dancing, karate, pretty much every sexual act you can imagine. Not surprisingly, many users come to Second Life for the possibilities of digital sex—sex without corporeal bodies, without real names, without the constraints of gravity, often with elaborate textual commentary.
How can you even talk about gravity-defying sex without mentioning the name Stoker Serpentine?
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
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How can you even talk about gravity-defying sex without mentioning the name Stoker Serpentine?
Could be she didn't because he might have not wanted his name used.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:53 PM   #23 (permalink)
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In my opinion, if the author was going to mention Anshe Chung as the first virtual Millionaire in Second life, she should also show the achievement of Stoker Stroker Serpentine for his then novel idea of creating adult animations in Furniture.
.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:10 AM   #24 (permalink)
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In my opinion, if the author was going to mention Anshe Chung as the first virtual Millionaire in Second life, she should also show the achievement of Stoker Serpentine for his then novel idea of creating adult animations in Furniture.
Meh. It'd be a bit like pointing out the first person to put pictures in picture frames.
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Old 11-19-2017, 03:14 AM   #25 (permalink)
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In July, Linden Lab launched a beta version of a new platform called Sansar, billed as the next frontier: a three-dimensional world designed for use with a virtual-reality headset such as Oculus Rift. The company’s faith, along with the recent popularity of VR in the tech world (a trend that Facebook’s purchase of Oculus VR attests to), raises a larger question. If advances in virtual reality solve the problem of a cumbersome interface, will they ultimately reveal a widespread desire to plunge more fully into virtual worlds unfettered by glitches, lags, and keyboards?
Lesson not learned. Does anyone really think VR headsets are about to take off?

SL's limits are more social than technical. The best SL ever was for me was when there were people everywhere. People at their keyboards. The computer I was using was so underpowered for the task that the trees looked like watercolor and I was getting about two frames per second, but there were people everywhere, and new things to see and learn about every day. I had so many conversations going simultaneously that I couldn't keep up. I'd stay up 'til six in the morning, take a nap, then go to work. It was awesome.

But LL pushed the appearance of success over all else, so "you can make money here" became the primary draw, they never met a bot they didn't like, humans and live conversation became comparatively scarce and it seemed to newbies that they were being ignored, the map exploded with empty regions and spinning, glowing for-sale signs, and mediocrity ruled the classifieds, the events list and the search results. By the time LL sorta almost got over their techy-libertarianism and made half-assed efforts to address some of these problems, it was too late. The people who were left disappeared to their hump bunkers and build caves.

If the goal is lots of participation (I know most of you don't think so, but I bet LL does) then VR headsets ain't gonna fix this thing.

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