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Old 06-14-2017, 04:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Disclaiming permission to share IMs

I presume that it is still a ToS-violation to share IMs without permission of all involved, regardless of what someone my put on their profile?

---Because Linden Labs says I have to inform you, all convos in IM, group chat, Local and otherwise can and will be notecarded for my protection or as evidence on my behalf and sent to others per request.
This means: You explicity consent to this as soon as you engage in a Conversation with me and is in force in perpetuity, regardless of whether or not you have read this statement."

Say it this way, it means:
DISCLAIMER: ALL convos IC AND IM are note carded and given at MY discreation!


So wouldn't be a ToS violation to threaten to share IMs, as this profile does?
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't think it's a TOS violation to threaten it. It's a ToS violation to actually do it, though.

Those profile disclaimers aren't worth the bytes they're written on.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Nope and that doesn't get them off the hook for TOS violation of sharing chat logs IN secondlife or ON any SL controlled pages, forums, etc (which isn't this one).

They can post chat logs outside of SL without any repercussions.

People can post those cute little disclaimers all they want. It's not a violation to post those disclaimers either (it just doesn't do anything beyond stringing words together)
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yeah I don't know how declaring your intent to violate the rules ahead of time supposedly exempting you from the rules ever became a thing; it sounds like something a child would've come up with.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It seems like harassment to me, to threaten to break the rules, and violate my privacy.

I did ask him though if his disclaimer meant that I could share his IMs. ; )
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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People share chat logs quite a lot. There are even chat logs in various SLU sig members' signatures.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I doubt it's worth having "convos" with this person.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannia Rossini View Post
I presume that it is still a ToS-violation to share IMs without permission of all involved, regardless of what someone my put on their profile?

---Because Linden Labs says I have to inform you, all convos in IM, group chat, Local and otherwise can and will be notecarded for my protection or as evidence on my behalf and sent to others per request.
This means: You explicity consent to this as soon as you engage in a Conversation with me and is in force in perpetuity, regardless of whether or not you have read this statement."

Say it this way, it means:
DISCLAIMER: ALL convos IC AND IM are note carded and given at MY discreation!


So wouldn't be a ToS violation to threaten to share IMs, as this profile does?

This garbage wouldn't stand up against a wet paper bag. It is not a reasonable expectation for people to read someone's profile BEFORE engaging in conversation. Add to that, if the person who has that in their profile initiates the conversation, it is NOT a reasonable expectation for the recipient to read a profile BEFORE they can respond.

In short, the whole concept is ignorant from the get go.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemeth View Post
People share chat logs quite a lot. There are even chat logs in various SLU sig members' signatures.
SLU is not owned by Linden Lab and does not fall under LL's TOS. Legally or otherwise.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannia Rossini View Post
It seems like harassment to me, to threaten to break the rules, and violate my privacy.

I did ask him though if his disclaimer meant that I could share his IMs. ; )
it's not really harassment.

Dumb as hell but that's about it.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannia Rossini View Post
It seems like harassment to me, to threaten to break the rules, and violate my privacy.

I did ask him though if his disclaimer meant that I could share his IMs. ; )
It's harassment in the same sense as a drunk guy with his pants down screaming at a lamp post is harassment. IMing people to badger them about their lamp post screaming could be deemed harassment.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfEyes View Post
It is not a reasonable expectation for people to read someone's profile BEFORE engaging in conversation.
Err, no, it's pretty reasonable and a fairly standard practice at that. As for the disclaimer, it's been my experience that anyone with one is an idiot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemeth View Post
People share chat logs quite a lot. There are even chat logs in various SLU sig members' signatures.
It doesn't matter if it's outside of SL or the official forums.
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Old 06-14-2017, 06:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Vaelissa Cortes View Post
Err, no, it's pretty reasonable and a fairly standard practice at that. As for the disclaimer, it's been my experience that anyone with one is an idiot.
You may go around reading every profile of every person you run across in SL but not everyone does or even wants to.


Quote:
It doesn't matter if it's outside of SL or the official forums.
Yes it does. Linden Lab has ZERO jurisdiction outside of it's own websites and servers. SLU is NOT owned by LL nor is it housed on LL servers. SLU is owned by Cristiano Midnight and HE pays for the server. NOT Linden Lab.

Quote:
NOTE: This does not include posting of chat to social media sites or other websites. Posting such logs on web pages, emailing them, or printing them out and posting them on utility poles in the "real world" -- are all actions beyond the scope of the Second Life Terms of Service.
Linden Lab Official:Residents' privacy rights - Second Life Wiki
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfEyes View Post
You may go around reading every profile of every person you run across in SL but not everyone does or even wants to.
That's fairly obvious. It doesn't change the fact that it's a common practice though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfEyes View Post
Yes it does. Linden Lab has ZERO jurisdiction outside of it's own websites and servers. SLU is NOT owned by LL nor is it housed on LL servers. SLU is owned by Cristiano Midnight and HE pays for the server. NOT Linden Lab.
Perhaps I was not clear enough, I was saying that it doesn't matter so long as it's not within SL itself or on their forums. I liberally share chat logs all day.

Edit: I thought I'd add that I've had this picture in my own profile since 2012.


Last edited by Vaelissa Cortes; 06-14-2017 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelissa Cortes View Post
That's fairly obvious. It doesn't change the fact that it's a common practice though.
Do you have facts to back that claim up with and links?


Quote:
Perhaps I was not clear enough, I was saying that it doesn't matter so long as it's not within SL itself or on their forums. I liberally share chat logs all day.

Edit: I thought I'd add that I've had this picture in my own profile since 2012.

Then I misunderstood what you said and I apologize for the misunderstanding.
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WolfEyes View Post
Do you have facts to back that claim up with and links?
Amusingly enough, it becomes obvious if you check profiles on a regular basis. From random people, to it being standard for shop owners to list things for people to read before IMing them.

and if you really want links, here's one:

..::I read Profiles::..

It shouldn't be at all surprising that a significant portion of the community takes advantage of an obvious feature intended to get to know a person a little better before sending an IM.

On the other side of the fence, there are people with strangely aggressive profiles who seem actively against people looking at theirs. Go figure.
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfEyes View Post
It is not a reasonable expectation for people to read someone's profile BEFORE engaging in conversation.
It's not?

I always do. And, back when I used to work as a sponsorship coordinator for V-twins, I would get pretty perturbed that people DIDN'T read my profile before starting a conversation. Heck, I still do. Because it's obvious when they haven't bothered to.

But maybe that's just me and I'm being picky because I'M such a profile reader?
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
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DISCLAIMER: I hereby inform everyone that has or receives any contact with or from me in SL, whether via IM or entering local chat range of my avatar, by having such contact agrees and grants me permission, expressed and in perpetuity, whether you've read this disclaimer or even noticed my name on the radar or not, to copy any and all clothing or object items your avatar is wearing, along with any other items I ever find on the grid that have your avatar's name listed as owner or creator, and to sell or redistribute these items as I see fit, including for cost not shared with you, both in SL and to such other grids and non-SL-type virtual worlds at my sole discretion.
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:05 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelissa Cortes View Post
Amusingly enough, it becomes obvious if you check profiles on a regular basis. From random people, to it being standard for shop owners to list things for people to read before IMing them.

and if you really want links, here's one:

..::I read Profiles::..

It shouldn't be at all surprising that a significant portion of the community takes advantage of an obvious feature intended to get to know a person a little better before sending an IM.

On the other side of the fence, there are people with strangely aggressive profiles who seem actively against people looking at theirs. Go figure.

We're actually talking about different situations.


Sorry but a group in SL isn't exactly what I had in mind.

I wasn't saying a lot of people in SL don't perv* profiles. All I'm saying is not everyone ALWAYS looks at a profile BEFORE answering an out of the blue IM. Most people have a little more faith in their fellow humans and sometimes it's a kneejerk reaction to reply without perving.

By the time I stopped logging in it seemed as if every other profile had that stupid message or some other equally ridiculous message.

As for a merchant's profile? Well yeah people are going to look when they are seeking information.

I also have the feeling I'm doing a piss poor job of explaining what I mean.



*Perving as in looking not anything sexual
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
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It's not?

I always do. And, back when I used to work as a sponsorship coordinator for V-twins, I would get pretty perturbed that people DIDN'T read my profile before starting a conversation. Heck, I still do. Because it's obvious when they haven't bothered to.

But maybe that's just me and I'm being picky because I'M such a profile reader?
Profile perv!
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Aaaaaand, my laptop decided to reboot on me just as I was clicking post reply so whatever my train of thought was, is now gone.
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Profile disclaimers are very good drama detectors for who you should avoid communicating with, though.
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Giannia Rossini View Post
From whomever you found this: DISCLAIMER: ALL convos IC AND IM are note carded and given at MY discreation!
That certainly sounds like a lot of work. I'd say it's a balance between having time to note card them all, and having time enough also to have the conversations themselves.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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HA! Got my train of thought back.

I was just going to say that I have SL chat logs going back to 2005. I also have chat logs from my AW days still that go back as far as 2000.

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