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Old 04-18-2017, 12:35 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think the no refund policy is a good one in general. It saves a lot of hassle with non serious and non respectful tenants. But I personally think, that should not be valid the moment it is not the tenant, but the landlord that breaks the lease.
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Old 04-18-2017, 12:54 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I've heard this story so many times I almost believe it's a land scam. I've even been in the situation that the sim we were on was sold, the only available plots the new owner offered were larger and cost more, so we walked away from the rent we'd already pre-paid and the offer for a free week's rent if we moved to a larger piece of land that was nothing like the land we were leaving. I've been on mainland since, though not as happy with the options, at least I'm not dependent on a landlord other than LL.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:00 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I stopped logging in because of bs like this. Oddly enough every time I start thinking about logging in again, bs lke this happens and I decide once again not to ever log in.

Two threads with the same name. Obvious retaliation is obvious. And it reflects badly on the land baron. If I were to log in and need to rent land, I know where I won't be going.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NeoBokrug Elytis View Post
I was just stating facts. To me it seems like both sides are being inflexible.

Jenn doesn't want anything but the EXACT same parcel size.
Imagin doesn't have any land of the exact same size to offer, but is still offering free tier whether she chooses to tier up or down.
Jenn is in no way being inflexible. She paid, in advance, for a particular parcel for a particular time period. The estate owner did not provide that parcel for the time period for which Jenn paid. The estate owner has not fully earned the advance payment. Consistent with real life business, the merchant owes return of the unearned balance to the customer. Advance payments do not actually belong to the merchant before they are earned; it is money that is in the possession of the merchant that remains owed to the customer until the merchant actually earns it.

Jenn lived up to her end of the agreement, the estate owner did not. That means it is entirely Jenn's choice whether to accept one of the alternatives offered by the estate owner, or to demand the money owed to her. Whether one of the offers is satisfactory is entirely up to Jenn's judgment.

Who here has actually gone out shopping for a parcel, for a home or business, and not actually chosen the specific parcel? Who has ever gone to an estate owner and said, "I want a 1024 square parcel, whichever one you want to give me, I'll take it." Let's none of us pretend that it is not important for the renter to actually be able to choose a specific parcel before paying for it.

Any one of you would rightfully be upset if a landlord did this to you in real life. Or if you ordered a book from Amazon, received a different book instead, and could not return it for your money back because in the opinion of a customer service representative they gave you a book just as good as the one you actually wanted. Or if Linden Lab just billed your yearly Premium payment, then notified you that you would no longer have a Second Life account, but you would be getting an IMVU account.

Try putting a clause in the covenant to this effect: "The estate owner reserves the right, at any time, to relocate you from your current parcel to any other parcel of equal value, in the discretion of the estate owner. Such relocation does not entitle you to return of any portion of advance payments or otherwise release you from the terms of this covenant." Let prospective customers decide up-front if they think this is a fair condition before putting down their money and effort on a parcel.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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After following this thread and with the advice of someone in the business that I truly respect, I have come to realize that I've made a mistake. I have refunded Jenn the 3 weeks tier that I owed her and I have changed my Estate's policy in this matter. I sincerely hope that I never have to sell another sim, but in the future, if I do and I have to ask someone to move and they decide to leave the estate instead of taking my offer, I will refund them any unused tier. Otherwise the no refund policy stands - for good reason.

I really hate to lose a good tenant like Jenn, I had no problems with her ever, I understand that this is just how it works out sometimes. Jenn and I have no hard feelings and am not upset that she started this post. She is right and I wouldn't have seen it had she not.

I very much regret posting the second thread with my reviews. That was definitely an over-reaction on my part. I've asked Cristiano to remove it, I'll leave that in his hands.

I've given all I have for over 9 years to build my business and I could count on one hand the number of dissatisfied tenants I've had in all that time. It's hard to admit that I am a bit of a control freak and that I made this mistake but it is the right thing to do.

Last edited by Imagin Illyar; 04-18-2017 at 01:47 PM. Reason: fix typos and bullshit
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:50 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amity Slade View Post
Any one of you would rightfully be upset if a landlord did this to you in real life. Or if you ordered a book from Amazon, received a different book instead, and could not return it for your money back because in the opinion of a customer service representative they gave you a book just as good as the one you actually wanted.
This actually did happen with those mail order Buy X, get Y for a penny CD places. Everyone in the house went in making selections. I ended up getting a notice stating they were out of the album I ordered and they sent a different one by the same artist instead. I had the option to send That One back and ask for another different album from the catalog. I took option B instead and never did business with them again. I don't think any of those companies exist anymore? Huh, google says Columbia House folded up in 2015. BMG IN 2009.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:50 PM   #32 (permalink)
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It's hard to admit that I am a bit of a control freak and that I made this mistake but it is the right thing to do.
This takes a lot of guts Imagin to come here and post this. This is good karma.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:52 PM   #33 (permalink)
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This takes a lot of guts Imagin to come here and post this. This is good karma.
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:35 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Wanted to confirm that I was fully refunded today.

I felt guilty at first posting as it was not my intention to call Imagin a fraud and I truly hope it didn't come across as that. It was purely a business dispute. But I felt I was in the right here and the principle mattered to me. I also know that sometimes I can be pig headed so wanted to see what the general thoughts were on a forum that I respect. Thank you all for your comments.

It shocked me a little at the time, as its the best land I have lived on and was there for many years. Anytime I needed something, Imagin was always quick to fix things. The sim always ran smoothly (as smoothly as LL would allow) and is a very pretty place to live.

Thank you Imagin. I think the change in policy is a good one and I will actually consider moving back in the near future. I never had a problem with you until this happened and now for me it is fully resolved and most probably has actually strengthened the trust I have in you.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:32 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:06 PM   #36 (permalink)
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This actually did happen with those mail order Buy X, get Y for a penny CD places. Everyone in the house went in making selections. I ended up getting a notice stating they were out of the album I ordered and they sent a different one by the same artist instead. I had the option to send That One back and ask for another different album from the catalog. I took option B instead and never did business with them again. I don't think any of those companies exist anymore? Huh, google says Columbia House folded up in 2015. BMG IN 2009.
As I recall, those companies obligated you to buy a certain number of albums in advance to take advantage of the introductory or special deals, and in the fine print notified you specifically your options when a specific album was not available. In a sense, you were buying x number of albums rather than specific albums. That is fine as long as they are clear on that in writing before the customer agrees to anything.

When I was in the album clubs- once upon a time before automatically charging credit cards via the Internet was a thing that actually happened- I never paid in advance. I was always billed after shipment. If I were unhappy with how one of the companies filled my order, I would have had the practical leverage to send an album back and not pay the bill. Then they could have decided whether to pay their lawyers thousands of dollars to sue me for $20, or simply eat it and cancel my subscription and no longer do business with me. (Or they could cancel my subscription, and a few months later mail me a letter asking me to return and offer me a new introductory deal- which one of the clubs in fact did with me.)
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:55 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Just to add....although this is totally different, my friend has a house in Willowdale Estates, and today she could not teleport to her home. She keeps getting a message saying that she is not allowed access to the location. If someone has any information, could you please let me know? Thanks
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:05 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Just to add....although this is totally different, my friend has a house in Willowdale Estates, and today she could not teleport to her home. She keeps getting a message saying that she is not allowed access to the location. If someone has any information, could you please let me know? Thanks
This thread was an unusual exception, your best bet for estate hiccups will always be the estate owners and managers.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:09 PM   #39 (permalink)
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This thread was an unusual exception, your best bet for estate hiccups will always be the estate owners and managers.
My friend tried, but she is not online. I was hoping to catch her in the forums or someone else who might know what is going on. Thanks for your help
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:37 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Because the land business has been slow recently, yesterday I had to sell an empty sim. It takes several days for a sim sale to go through so I gave the buyer estate manager rights so she could get started. This is common in the world of selling sims but apparently the person I sold it to didn't understand that by using the region tools to cut off access to her new sim while developing it that she also cut off access to the whole estate.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:11 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Well, selling a sim to make my estate more stable going forward seemed like a simple matter but I don't think it could have gone much worse. With all 34 sims I've bought in the past I've always been given estate manager rights so that I could get started working while waiting for the sale to go through so I didn't give it a second thought when I did it for the buyer. The person I sold it to is no newbie and I'm sure she didn't do it on purpose but it happened.

As far as I can tell she took away access around midnight my time (8pm SLT) and I restored it as soon as I got up and saw that I had over a hundred emails from IMs - at 8am my time (4am SLT) - so my entire estate was offline to all but the buyer of the one sim for 8 hours. You'd be surprised how much panic that can cause.

I've now replied personally to every single person who contacted me (sitting here bleary eyed in my PJs just out of bed) and those who got back to me were very understanding. I'm sure some will panic and leave over this though At this point all I can do is assure everyone that Willowdale is quite stable as an estate overall and this sim sale was a strategic decision I made to ensure that stability for the future. Willowdale will be here as long as SL is still breathing. I've been running this place myself for over nine years now and there have been some of bumps in the road but through it all, it is still my passion
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:35 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I feel your pain. I've gone through this several times during my SL-life. It just reinforces my belief that everything in SL is temporary just as in RL. The sooner I accepted this, the sooner I could cut my losses and recover my sanity.
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:11 PM   #43 (permalink)
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It just reinforces my belief that everything in SL is temporary just as in RL.
Me too. That just turned me into a data hoarder tho. o.O;;

I'm happy for Jenn that things worked out, and my sympathies to Imagin for all the stress and hassle you're going through.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:56 PM   #44 (permalink)
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This actually did happen with those mail order Buy X, get Y for a penny CD places. Everyone in the house went in making selections. I ended up getting a notice stating they were out of the album I ordered and they sent a different one by the same artist instead. I had the option to send That One back and ask for another different album from the catalog. I took option B instead and never did business with them again. I don't think any of those companies exist anymore? Huh, google says Columbia House folded up in 2015. BMG IN 2009.
Heh. I think I still owe BMG something like nine CD purchases. The deal was something like "get 12 CDs for a penny, buy nine at regular club price, and take as long as you want". Technically, I didn't break the deal.
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