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Old 04-01-2017, 10:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Jelly Dolls - Six Months Later

It's been about six months since LL introduced the "Jelly Dolls" feature to derender avatars with exceptionally high draw weight. I figured this would be a good time to take a step back and see how this feature has impacted our SL experience.

When LL introduced Jelly Dolls I was frustrated. My prediction was that the feature would have little effect on content creators and most people would simply disable the avatar derendering and just ignore it altogether. I think I was somewhat right. It seems to me that a lot of people do simply turn the feature off, and I still see plenty of avatars with a draw weight well over 200,000 wandering around. Especially in RP sims. In one RP sim the average draw weight appeared to be around 300,000. And this was only a month or two ago.

As I feared, texture use is largely unaffected and remains the number one framerate killer in SL. Since textures have a very limited impact on your draw weight number, people continue to use excessive amounts of texture data and unnecessary blended alpha textures rather than the easier to render masked alpha.

On the other hand, I've also seen a general trend towards lighter avatars. No less detailed than older avatars, but far easier to render. So it would seem that there has been some success in influencing content creators with the Jelly Dolls feature. I've found it easier to find content to reduce my own draw weight as well, due to more low draw weight options available.

I've even seen a thread on the official forum where people were trying the "80,000 Challenge", attempting to get their draw weight under that magic number, and sharing tips on doing so. In fact, most of the high draw weight avatars I see are relying heavily on older content. Lots of sculpts and flexi-prims.

Since I do keep the feature on, and tend to keep the cutoff around 80,000, I have been enjoying significantly higher framerates than before the draw weight cutoff was introduced.

How has the Jelly Dolls feature affected you and your experiences in SL? Are you seeing improved performance? Did you find it easy to reduce your draw weight or has it proven a challenge? Do you disable the feature? Has the feature caused you any problems? What are your thoughts so far?
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I see improved performance when I swipe the slider all the way to to left when shopping. Swiping the slider is very easy for me.

I tend to run my avatar at 60k or below. It's been simple to dress myself with reasonable complexity, using mesh avatar parts, clothing and accessories from 2016 and later.

I'm also told I'm a jerk for informing my friend with the 300k gorilla avatar that he should maybe find a new gorilla with a lower complexity.

Being chewed out over voice by a gorilla is always entertaining, though.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Stupid question, I'm sure, but - how do you check your avatar's draw weight, using Firestorm?
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You can toggle it on/off with Avatar > Avatar Health > Show Avatar Complexity Information
or just have it on all the time (like I do) with
Avatar > Preferences > General > Show avatar complexity > Show own complexity
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Old 04-02-2017, 12:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Under 80000 is the challenge?

I logged in to check my complexity, since I wasn't sure.



Wasn't even trying to make it low complexity. What are those guys doing? Furries are supposed to be the laggy ones.
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Wasn't even trying to make it low complexity. What are those guys doing? Furries are supposed to be the laggy ones.
For your average "likes to play dress up but isn't quite a fashionista" type, the real killers are jewellery and hair. I've found with the wrong necklace I can easily double an outfit's draw weight and certain hair dos from certain creators are eye wateringly bad.

Having noted that though, things in these areas seem to be improving. Most of the hair and jewellery I'm seeing at shopping events is significantly lower in draw weight than stuff I was seeing a year or two ago. So I can only conclude that folks are paying attention.

As for myself while I typically wander SL with jelly dolls turned off (I tried them for a while and found the fps improvement to be minimal), I do pay attention to my own draw weight and try not to not to be overly excessive. Some of my outfit combinations do break the 80k mark but I'm more typically floating around 40 - 60k and that's with fully mesh body parts. It's easily doable.
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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This is the outfit I was wearing out and about earlier. Everything's mesh, the head and hands are bento. I wasn't deliberately aiming for a low value, I was experimenting with recent purchases and decided I liked the combination. The draw weight was a bonus.

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Old 04-02-2017, 03:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Jelly Dolls really help in certain events. Its a big difference if one has to render all other Avis or only see 2 or 3 because everyone else is a collored shape

Which is, i think, also the main reason a lot of people actually try to get a lower drawing weight. When you can't get into your favorite event because you get booted all the time, you really HAVE to pay attention. Monthly Midnight Madness comes to mind here.

As a side note, said events might also be the reason why some creators finally pay attention. I guess it has been quite embarrasing when you as a creator get NC's asking just how one should meet the max. drawing weight when ONE item of a participating creator ALONE (Hairs for example) allmost fills it up

I still don't know though why some older items count for such massive drawing weight though sometimes, when there is no obvious reason for it
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Old 04-02-2017, 04:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I fight it all the time, but I do good to be around 150k. My hair alone has been the single highest - little over 60,000 before I do anything to it.

I drop that in half in seconds with a self deleting script changing every link to alpha mask mode (in case anyone wants to know where to start with that for hair with 200 links). Picking a cutoff value just high enough to not see any white replacing what should be transparent is all you need. I suppose I should look for different hair, but it has to be mod and be able to make it work for hoodies & hats, and even a wet look.

I still keep the feature on, set at 300k, but don't see jelly dolls very often.
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Old 04-02-2017, 05:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I usually end up in the 40-90k range; in most cases there will be 1-2 items that are as "expensive" as all the rest combined (rings/arm accessories in particular tend to be evil in the 10-20k range).



83,512 for everything vs 45,124 without the two bracelets.

For everyone else my limit is set to 100k with friends always rendered regardless of their complexity rating and I usually see over 3/4 of everyone in most places.

One downside of jelly dolls vs not rendering avies at all is that the viewer will still grab all the textures and mesh model data even for jellies so at very crowded fashion events even a low complexity setting will still grind you down (and 32-bit based viewers eventually run out of memory and crash).

Also a cautionary note; there's at least one event that tells its participating creators to enforce a rather low complexity limit (50k). If you get caught by those security orbs and get force-tp'ed home but the teleport aborts or doesn't complete for any reason then all your worn no mod scripted attachments will end up dead/unrecoverable ( https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-41379 ).
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:13 AM   #11 (permalink)
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@Kitty is that window showing attachment draw weights a Firestorm feature?
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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@Kitty is that window showing attachment draw weights a Firestorm feature?
No, it's a Catznip thing; after LL added jelly dolls I added a number of features to make it easier to deal with.

Not being able to tell which attachment is actually skyrocketing the total complexity seemed a rather big shortcoming so I just show it in several places .
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Old 04-02-2017, 09:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I usually end up in the 40-90k range; in most cases there will be 1-2 items that are as "expensive" as all the rest combined (rings/arm accessories in particular tend to be evil in the 10-20k range).



83,512 for everything vs 45,124 without the two bracelets.

For everyone else my limit is set to 100k with friends always rendered regardless of their complexity rating and I usually see over 3/4 of everyone in most places.

One downside of jelly dolls vs not rendering avies at all is that the viewer will still grab all the textures and mesh model data even for jellies so at very crowded fashion events even a low complexity setting will still grind you down (and 32-bit based viewers eventually run out of memory and crash).

Also a cautionary note; there's at least one event that tells its participating creators to enforce a rather low complexity limit (50k). If you get caught by those security orbs and get force-tp'ed home but the teleport aborts or doesn't complete for any reason then all your worn no mod scripted attachments will end up dead/unrecoverable ( https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-41379 ).
I want that feature so bad.

But, I have had some sad moments with my old jewellery. Sigh.

But can anyone tell me why a pair of eyes should have a display value of 20 488??
Of course, the eyes were the last thing I tried to take off, after hair, ears, body, clothes, piercings, jewelry.
O yeah, they are no mod. I think I let those 300 L go. I am just happy that I bough only two pairs. I am not sure how I could mod them anyway. Must be a layer for ever color detail plus a layer for every reflection?
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Old 04-02-2017, 10:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Stupid question, I'm sure, but - how do you check your avatar's draw weight, using Firestorm?
click on the appearance button, it shows the complexicity on each outfit.
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Old 04-02-2017, 10:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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If I go to a busy club I use my 'club' setting, that limits draw weight to 100,000. That usually turns at least half the people into jelly dolls. I don't think there's been any noticeable reduction in draw weight since jelly dolls were introduced. That old DJ mentality of 'TP all your friends in and let's crash the sim' still persists!
What I think LL should do now as the second part of jelly dolls is to allow landowners to set a maximum draw weight for avatars entering their land. That would have an effect I'm sure!
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Old 04-02-2017, 10:55 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Yeah something's up with that hair. I recommend setting all the faces to Alpha Masking with 127 cutoff instead of Alpha Blending, if it has it, it can often make your complexity plummet with almost no visual change.
I tried this, and the wispy parts of the hair looked like streaks of wet paint. Also, there was no change in the RW. Great trick when it works, though. I've had better luck with plants. I think the problem with this particular hair is it's made with dozens of pieces of mesh. And it's unrigged. I don't know why, but rigged hair tends to be lighter weight.
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Old 04-02-2017, 10:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yeah something's up with that hair. I recommend setting all the faces to Alpha Masking with 127 cutoff instead of Alpha Blending, if it has it, it can often make your complexity plummet with almost no visual change.
I have one set that worked just fine with only a cutoff value of 1 - another that would show some white streaks if set that low, set at 32 (just random guess) that works fine.

When I changed to alpha masking it did cut off just over half the render weight. That's too much of a drop to skip that step. People need a script for it though - they most likely won't spend an hour manually changing that for 200 links. One SLPPF function call will do it immediately.
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Old 04-02-2017, 12:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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My antique av is 79000, 34000 if I remove my hair.
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Old 04-02-2017, 01:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I used to avoid going out to populated areas because my last PC would overheat with the fancy mesh outfits and body bits around me. Jelly dolls gave me a pretty obvious speed boost on my new PC so I've stuck with them. In Singularity I've found a way to derender avis over 20k complexity. Singularity doesn't have jelly dolls showing, I just see a hovering name with no avi. I do see more avis rendering nowadays, so it does seem like more are paying attention to their complexity.

I don't find it hard being below 30k now. 15-25k is about the average on my tweaked outfits. I was about 50k-80k in most human outfits when jelly dolls came out. I had glasses I wore all the time but they were too complex so I'll need to find a replacement for those sometime. Otherwise I just need to check my hair and outfit combinations aren't too fancy. It's been a good excuse to look through my older clothing and mix mesh with non mesh layers. Something I did before, but now I'm deliberately doing that to counteract a more complex hairdo or dress.

If I'm going somewhere really busy then I'll often switch into a mesh tiny animal avi that's easily under 10k. It's given me a good excuse to really use those avis too, and they're a nice conversation starter too
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I want that feature so bad.

But, I have had some sad moments with my old jewellery. Sigh.

But can anyone tell me why a pair of eyes should have a display value of 20 488??
....


This is exactly the one thing i really don't understand about how drawing weight works. There is no consistency (for me at least) just how it is calculated.
I allways thought it has something to do what kind of alpha is used or how many prims are in the object (with older non-mesh stuff), but, no

As an example, my old glasses i used for years have a drawing weight of 95342!!! They were buildt with 86 prims.
Some other glasses, same creator, have a drawing weight of 5724. And these use 243 prims!
Both use the same alpha and the one with higher DW even has no scripts in it anymore (because of modable).

So, i don't know why that is, it seems pretty random at times at least to me
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I roleplay as a fashonista. Outfitted in detailed mesh hair, boots, jewelry and even a purse, I can count 67072. That is with bracelets on each hand and even a legacy ring from Zaara, not mesh. Yay! I love my old stuff.

This is roughly 13000 under the 80000. Drop the purse who is only for show, and one bracelet, down to 61521.

I can't say it is all men, but I think I see more men over 100000 than women. Newer clothes and jewelry is lower in weight, women shop often and get lighter apparel without even thinking about it, while men keep their prim hair and watches longer?
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:27 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I saw one female jellydoll yesterday that had a count of 780k... Holy cow!
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I tried this, and the wispy parts of the hair looked like streaks of wet paint. Also, there was no change in the RW. Great trick when it works, though. I've had better luck with plants. I think the problem with this particular hair is it's made with dozens of pieces of mesh. And it's unrigged. I don't know why, but rigged hair tends to be lighter weight.
Yeah it dosn't look good for every hair; it should have reduced the complexity though, remember if you edit an attachment you have to detach and re-wear it for complexity to re-calculate.

Edit: what happened to my post is gone
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Old 04-02-2017, 03:21 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Under 80000 is the challenge?

I logged in to check my complexity, since I wasn't sure.
I just logged in to check my complexity. With not a lick of mesh anywhere, a ponytail hairdo, and a flexi-prim skirt, I weighed in at just over 25k. I can deal with that.

Jewelry is certainly a killer, though. I have a necklace somewhere that has, if I remember correctly, nearly 500 prims!
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Old 04-02-2017, 03:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I will say that on Beth, with a slink body and with bento head and hands, my avg seems to be in the 45k-75k, on my kemono avies, it used to be over 100k but with at least the hands and tail going to bento, that went done a decent amount [not sure on number, its below my jelly threshold.
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