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Old 06-16-2017, 11:39 AM   #126 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Penny Patton View Post
It's been about six months since LL introduced the "Jelly Dolls" feature to derender avatars with exceptionally high draw weight. I figured this would be a good time to take a step back and see how this feature has impacted our SL experience.

When LL introduced Jelly Dolls I was frustrated. My prediction was that the feature would have little effect on content creators and most people would simply disable the avatar derendering and just ignore it altogether.
That, and the people who leave it on are SO DAMN PIOUS about it. I was talking to someone about an animal avatar. We'd been talking about animal avatars and the old and new versions for a while, and out of the blue they said "I'm sorry, I can't see that avatar." I assumed they were having a viewer problem and asked a few debugging questions like what their graphic card was and stuff and they got all huffy about how awful I was for having such a high draw weight.

A lot of older mesh animal avatars are close to 200,000 no matter what you do, but they haven't been replaced by newer versions so there's really nothing you can do about it.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:24 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Ok my FPS is 60 before and after.. however...
i tooka hayabusa tree and attached it
By that token, (using what render weight will be if attached), just look at the number for Display when clicking the More info link in the edit window.
That is what its render weight will be if worn.

Also, that number (127 or 128) used for the mask value can be changed between 0 and 255 - you can always test going up or down a little to see if it makes a difference you like.
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:36 PM   #128 (permalink)
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By that token, (using what render weight will be if attached), just look at the number for Display when clicking the More info link in the edit window.
That is what its render weight will be if worn.

Also, that number (127 or 128) used for the mask value can be changed between 0 and 255 - you can always test going up or down a little to see if it makes a difference you like.
great help- thank you
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:32 PM   #129 (permalink)
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FPS is what you'll be looking for here, ctrl + shift + 1 will show it, and some viewers display it in the upper right corner as well. One or two plants usually won't make a big difference, but for a full forest, there will be a nice improvement setting things to masked alpha.

Everyone in SL should be setting all of their trees and grass to masked whenever possible, with very, very few exceptions.
Be warned if you do this the LI of the tree or plant can double.
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:20 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Be warned if you do this the LI of the tree or plant can double.
If done with mesh objects, mesh accounting was already being used.
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:20 PM   #131 (permalink)
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If done with mesh objects, mesh accounting was already being used.
All my mesh trees are already Masked Alpha so I don't get your point. If your using 3D trees or HPMD or some tree's from Heart or some grass's from alirium you change them to Masked Alpha the LI will double.
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:16 AM   #132 (permalink)
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All my mesh trees are already Masked Alpha so I don't get your point. If your using 3D trees or HPMD or some tree's from Heart or some grass's from alirium you change them to Masked Alpha the LI will double.
do you have screenshots before/after which show this effect?
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Old 06-18-2017, 02:55 PM   #133 (permalink)
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do you have screenshots before/after which show this effect?
I don't have a screenshot, but i can definatly confirm this, at least with shrubs and trees from HPMD.
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Old 06-18-2017, 02:55 PM   #134 (permalink)
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All my mesh trees are already Masked Alpha so I don't get your point. If your using 3D trees or HPMD or some tree's from Heart or some grass's from alirium you change them to Masked Alpha the LI will double.
Are they all sculpted rather than mesh? I remember changing an old sculpted stone path to masked alpha and each section went from 1 to 2 LI.
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:05 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Most HPMD stuff is made from sculpts.
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:05 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Are they all sculpted rather than mesh? I remember changing an old sculpted stone path to masked alpha and each section went from 1 to 2 LI.
Yes there sculpts there's no reason to change mesh trees. The mesh trees I have are already set that way.
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:43 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Sculpts use the old accounting method until to do something like change them to convex hull, apply a specular or bump map, or change to masked alpha. Then it uses the new accounting and will shoot up in LI, same as if you do it to a prim.

Do fiddling in a sandbox or with lots of spare prims or you may have it returned pretty quick.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:35 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Y.T. View Post
Thank you for the script. Now, what happens if i place it for example into a tree, where the leafs are then turned into masked alpha.. how can i measure the difference? Are there any tools in the viewer to see what i am saving in needed render performance?
I don't know of any viewer tools to measure the complexity of rezzed objects, but I do know that in the render pipeline, the pixel test for "Alpha Masking" is pretty negligible (It used to be called "fast alpha", after all), so it's basically as if the object isn't using any transparency at all.
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:08 AM   #139 (permalink)
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Jellydolls haven't really affected me that much, even when I was seeing them a lot back when my computer wasn't as good. It helps that I don't really care about others' avatar appearance.

But it's nice seeing actual avatars with the better computer I have now.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:42 AM   #140 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by simcityguy View Post
Be warned if you do this the LI of the tree or plant can double.
I doubt this, masking reduces LI it doesn't increase it.
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:04 AM   #141 (permalink)
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I doubt this, masking reduces LI it doesn't increase it.
If the object is being measured on the old system masking will flip it to the new system which can definitely increase its LI.
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Old 07-01-2017, 02:30 PM   #142 (permalink)
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I doubt this, masking reduces LI it doesn't increase it.
I had an old 78 prim huilding section with some cut tube odds and ends that shot to 783 by masking the windows.
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Old 07-01-2017, 04:15 PM   #143 (permalink)
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I had an old 78 prim huilding section with some cut tube odds and ends that shot to 783 by masking the windows.
You are correct. My mind read "mesh tree" which is already on the LI system.

Tubes, torii, and non-sphere ball prims have high LOD because their physics model is complex (side note: perfectly sphere ball prims actually have low LI (they are easy to simulate), the moment you deform it into an oval, it explodes in LI)

But you can get around them by marking those child prims as having no physics model, then the LI goes back to sane levels.
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Old 07-01-2017, 11:15 PM   #144 (permalink)
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I doubt this, masking reduces LI it doesn't increase it.
Not on sculpts test it yourself.
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Old 07-02-2017, 11:07 AM   #145 (permalink)
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Not on sculpts test it yourself.
Yep. Don't use sculpts. Not just with alpha masking, but like, at all. Just a general rule.

They are pretty much horrible, even more so with Firestorm's doubled default LOD factor. Every sculpted prim, no matter how small, is 2048 tris (triangles). A shoe made up of a bunch of sculpts can have more tris than an entire map in a video game. Sculpted hair can have more tris than every map in an entire videogame put together as a whole. It's bad.

Old content had to use them, but there's really no reason to make new content with them anymore. Everyone had to learn tools to make sculpts, so learn the new tools to make mesh, it's infinitely better.

And I'm not even one to be snotty about old content, it's just that sculpts are really that super mondo bad.

Sculpted content that already exists was a product of the limitations of its time.

Just don't make more of it.

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Old 07-02-2017, 06:23 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Hell, the same tools used to make sculpts, more or less, are what you use to make other mesh models. Except without all the extra special limitations of a sculpt map.
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Old 07-02-2017, 09:17 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Yep. Don't use sculpts. Not just with alpha masking, but like, at all. Just a general rule.
Pretty sure we're talking about people who don't have the skills to make new mesh objects, who are using existing sculpted objects they bought (not made) and want to make them work and look better.
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Old 07-02-2017, 10:13 PM   #148 (permalink)
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I love my sculpt trees from Heart Garden, 3D Trees, HPHD, alirium, Botanical, Forest Floor, you see these tree's all over the grid and all over pictures on flickr. I was just warning people if you drop that script in one of these sculpt trees be aware of the LI.
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Old 07-03-2017, 09:12 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Pretty sure we're talking about people who don't have the skills to make new mesh objects, who are using existing sculpted objects they bought (not made) and want to make them work and look better.
Fun fact : If you have the skills to learn SL and make things with prims, you have the skills to learn Blender. It's about personal drive. And not telling yourself you can't. It's not some enigma.
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:18 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Fun fact : If you have the skills to learn SL and make things with prims, you have the skills to learn Blender. It's about personal drive. And not telling yourself you can't.
Adeon, I've been reading your posts with pleasure since the beforetime, but *rolls eyes*

"Personal drive" is not uppermost in my mind when faced with rather sparse land and my inventory stuffed with cool landscaping doodads picked up over the last umpty-ump years. (I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that.) And I do have spare prims. So I appreciate the reminder about alpha settings, and the LI implications.
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