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Old 03-18-2017, 11:46 AM   #26 (permalink)
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He's doing research, yes, but he's not polling people for their opinions of some subject. He's asking residents about something objective, the effects of a specific changed policy. I don't consider that to be a survey, it's not like he's asking to do interviews.
It's still disrespectful to forum management to not even ask if it's ok. I was tempted to delete his original post and then let both he and Cris know, but as usual on SLU we'll blab about any old thing ... forever....

Not going to delete anything now, but I'm also not going to give an alleged "writer" free material when they can't even be bothered to find out the local customs and protocol before turning this into a question-and-answer forum. He hasn't even acknowledged the fact that he hasn't asked for permission.

It's Cris' board. Not mine. Not louiegy's. I don't walk into other people's homes or knock on their doors to conduct surveys for vague purposes without permission, either. I would expect the same courtesy here.
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
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You all realise that this guy is actually studying the psychology of SL-related-forum users by pretending to be interested in the history of SL while actually recording how SL-related-forum users react to someone claiming to be researching the history of SL?
What if he's actually studying the sociological development of internet-based social groups by pretending to be studying the psychology of SL-related-forum users by pretending to be interested in the history of SL while actually taking notes on the reaction and interplay between the different factions of the user base that either do or do not mind being asked for their opinion by someone with an ostensibly academic interest in SL and its users?
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:31 PM   #28 (permalink)
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What if he's actually studying the sociological development of internet-based social groups by pretending to be studying the psychology of SL-related-forum users by pretending to be interested in the history of SL while actually taking notes on the reaction and interplay between the different factions of the user base that either do or do not mind being asked for their opinion by someone with an ostensibly academic interest in SL and its users?
You're talking about at least three conferences there, which is totally unrealistic. I'd suggest that just researching the psychology of SLU users would provide enough material for two conferences, which remains within the realms of a practicable reality.
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I don't walk into other people's homes or knock on their doors to conduct surveys for vague purposes without permission, either. I would expect the same courtesy here.
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:06 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:31 PM   #32 (permalink)
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It's still disrespectful to forum management to not even ask if it's ok. I was tempted to delete his original post and then let both he and Cris know, but as usual on SLU we'll blab about any old thing ... forever....

Not going to delete anything now, but I'm also not going to give an alleged "writer" free material when they can't even be bothered to find out the local customs and protocol before turning this into a question-and-answer forum. He hasn't even acknowledged the fact that he hasn't asked for permission.

It's Cris' board. Not mine. Not louiegy's. I don't walk into other people's homes or knock on their doors to conduct surveys for vague purposes without permission, either. I would expect the same courtesy here.
I get what you're saying, and I do certainly agree. But this is a bit of an odd case. If he hadn't have mentioned he is a student and writing a paper, I think we would have been none the wiser. Unlike most of the survey takers we've encountered here, he actually asked some very relevant questions and appears to have a pretty decent grasp of SL history. I'm not sure which way I lean on this particular issue.
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Old 03-18-2017, 10:15 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
What if he's actually studying the sociological development of internet-based social groups by pretending to be studying the psychology of SL-related-forum users by pretending to be interested in the history of SL while actually taking notes on the reaction and interplay between the different factions of the user base that either do or do not mind being asked for their opinion by someone with an ostensibly academic interest in SL and its users?
Could you repeat that, please?

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Old 03-18-2017, 10:23 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Well i for one think that his own (un)involvement with this thread should be some indication to him of why VR becomes decolonised.
I mean .. he pops in .. asks a question.. ppl post this and that and blah blah fishpaste..
some real interaction by the regulars here.
he pops back in .. k thnx.. bbl
no interaction whatsoever from his part.
zero
no questions about things said.. no response even to things said... no comments, no observations .. nada.
He is pretty much looking for an easy out for his study.
It is going to be lackluster at best.
He only chose VR because it is a hot topic recently.
Typical bland below average lazy student... or a good troll, who knows.
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:51 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:31 AM   #36 (permalink)
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You lot can be pretty scary for an unwitting student. I tend to message people privately and offer help, simply because it's easier than defending every opinion and wading through all the reasons why not to help.

I want Second Life to survive the Sansar apocolypse, and so I always try to offer help and present a resident's view of the history, of the current state of play. I keep reading on the SL general thread on SLU "...and that's why I don't log in any more..." from oldbies who are still hanging out with their SL friends, but on SLU instead of SL.

My friends' list is cluttered with people I never see online any more. I realised that one of the by products of the growth of SL into a massive thing is that I don't explore a lot except to buy things, and I don't socialise at events in the way I used to.

I have been making an effort for the last few weeks to get back to socialising. It's killing my sleep pattern, but I've been going to a club in the evenings, and speaking to people when I catch them online... and it makes such a difference. When I came to SL originally, it was to try to recapture the community that I found in Uru Live during the closed and open beta phase, and I realise that I just haven't been putting the effort in to keep that going until now - and having done so, I'm enjoying SL a lot more again.

It was easy in the old days, you could see what events were going on, and encompass the whole of the SL map in your head like a town... now it takes effort and the will to explore and find the good events and interesting builds. It's become fractured because there is always so much change in SL, but it is possible to get back the excitement of meeting new people, seeing new things.

If we want SL to survive, and I do, we have to interest other people in it, so that the people losing interest are replaced with others who see the possibilities in a virtual world you can create yourself, and that means being nice to anyone who is about to write a scholarly article about SL... because I don't think the hellish sex den image of SL is doing it any good, in academic or any other circles. And it isn't the truth, either.

Last edited by Caliandris; 03-19-2017 at 08:32 AM. Reason: added an a
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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If we want SL to survive, and I do, we have to interest other people in it, so that the people losing interest are replaced with others who see the possibilities in a virtual world you can create yourself, and that means being nice to anyone who is about to write a scholarly article about SL... because I don't think the hellish sex den image of SL is doing it any good, in academic or any other circles. And it isn't the truth, either.
I take your point, and appreciate the fact you have more patience than me.

I don't feel I *have* to be nice with people I encounter briefly on a forum if I don't feel they are doing more than gathering information to write a paper, and particularly as I didn't get the impression this person is interested in SL except as a "thesis concept".

I would be interested to know whether he / she has spent any time to speak of inworld, to start with as apparently he / she, from that first post, has been keenly interested but not dedicated to it. What does that even mean?

As Eku said, the few reactions from him / her are "OK thks bye will have more questions".

Yes, it would be good to know more about why virtual world are "decolonizing", and some material has been provided (which may or may not be representative). To pretty much resounding silence from the OP.
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:12 AM   #38 (permalink)
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If we want SL to survive
You can't really be reading a lot of the threads on this site.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:16 AM   #39 (permalink)
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You can't really be reading a lot of the threads on this site.
I realize a lot of you don't log in... but are you actively trying to hasten its demise, really? Why? Anyway, I wasn't presuming to tell people they should or shouldn't co-operate themselves, just explaining why I do, and hoping that there were others who still see value in it.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:53 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I realize a lot of you don't log in... but are you actively trying to hasten its demise, really? Why? Anyway, I wasn't presuming to tell people they should or shouldn't co-operate themselves, just explaining why I do, and hoping that there were others who still see value in it.
Me, I'm not trying to hasten its demise at all.

I think SL is a fantastic thing for a huge swathe of society. I had several great years of building and exploring and most of all meeting people I have stayed in touch with (who left before I did, or who haven't left at all).

If I hadn't fried so many laptops and got frustrated with mesh (and not rich enough to keep up a sim) I'd probably still be there, so am never, ever, going to trash the place.

I would encourage anybody to give it a shot, and I still love to see newbies thrilled with it all. I might prefer to avoid them getting a bit over-enthusiastic with the really basic newbie questions and the show and tell stuff on here but *shrug* different strokes.

I even still get hankerings to go back just to explore, but I think I'd get all nostalgic while feeling it'd never be the same. A bit like going back to some RL places. So perhaps it's good to stick with the good memories - and there are a whole lot of those.
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:01 PM   #41 (permalink)
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You lot can be pretty scary for an unwitting student. I tend to message people privately and offer help, simply because it's easier than defending every opinion and wading through all the reasons why not to help.

I want Second Life to survive the Sansar apocolypse, and so I always try to offer help and present a resident's view of the history, of the current state of play. I keep reading on the SL general thread on SLU "...and that's why I don't log in any more..." from oldbies who are still hanging out with their SL friends, but on SLU instead of SL.

My friends' list is cluttered with people I never see online any more. I realised that one of the by products of the growth of SL into a massive thing is that I don't explore a lot except to buy things, and I don't socialise at events in the way I used to.

I have been making an effort for the last few weeks to get back to socialising. It's killing my sleep pattern, but I've been going to a club in the evenings, and speaking to people when I catch them online... and it makes such a difference. When I came to SL originally, it was to try to recapture the community that I found in Uru Live during the closed and open beta phase, and I realise that I just haven't been putting the effort in to keep that going until now - and having done so, I'm enjoying SL a lot more again.

It was easy in the old days, you could see what events were going on, and encompass the whole of the SL map in your head like a town... now it takes effort and the will to explore and find the good events and interesting builds. It's become fractured because there is always so much change in SL, but it is possible to get back the excitement of meeting new people, seeing new things.

If we want SL to survive, and I do, we have to interest other people in it, so that the people losing interest are replaced with others who see the possibilities in a virtual world you can create yourself, and that means being nice to anyone who is about to write a scholarly article about SL... because I don't think the hellish sex den image of SL is doing it any good, in academic or any other circles. And it isn't the truth, either.
Given the tl;dr though, did your positive approach achieve anything positive that I missed by not being arsed enough to read all the way through? And I post in the vaguely hazed idea that I may have posted something vaguely hazed supporting the OP.
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:53 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Yeah, Eku, stop killing SL by mocking people that skate forum rules. Darn you! Especially when they've expressed no real interest in logging in anyways.

People that make these threads seem to want us to do their in-person research for them, and that's weaksauce, especially from someone going for their Masters.

"I have always had a keen interest in SL, however having never dedicated myself to it, I have a few questions I was hoping you guys might be able to clear up."

Some anthropologist he'll make. Rather than living with the indigenous people, he'll just ask what people think about them in the nearest major city.

"I have always had a keen interest in the Korubo of Peru, however having never dedicated myself to them, I have a few questions I was hoping you guys might be able to clear up. Next round's on me!"
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:28 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:16 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Given the tl;dr though, did your positive approach achieve anything positive that I missed by not being arsed enough to read all the way through?
If you think her six short paragraphs are tldr then Proko would give you a fucking brain aneurysm.

Caliandris made some very good points, which were very well said and which don't deserve to be written off as tldr simply because you don't like the contents.

Also her point about hastening SL's demise are spot-on; not necessarily this thread, but the over-all sentiment of this forum towards SL seems to generally be fairly negative ..."why is SL even still around? I was done with it back in 2007!" and shit.

This is paragraph number four, I'll stop writing now for the sake of the adhd impaired in the audience. Have a nice week or whatever.
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:32 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Anthropology masters student - Questions re. SL History

Personally I've had my fill of lazy, unethical grad students thoughtlessly polluting over-surveyed populations. This concern has nothing to do with SL; it's an exasperation with shoddy academics.


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Old 03-19-2017, 08:31 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I realize a lot of you don't log in... but are you actively trying to hasten its demise, really? Why? Anyway, I wasn't presuming to tell people they should or shouldn't co-operate themselves, just explaining why I do, and hoping that there were others who still see value in it.
First of all, you know nothing about me beyond things I say here. You don't know what I log into.

Second, my sarcastic little comment should not denote any attempt to hasten the demise of anything.

Finally, you're attempt to police comments here in the hopes of...it smacks of similar nonsense towards framing in politics or this vs that discussions, and really just means you don't like how people talk, and so - to quote a friend - blah blah fish paste.

You got a problem. But it's not how some people on SLU talk about Second Life.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:35 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Caliandris made some very good points, which were very well said and which don't deserve to be written off as tldr simply because you don't like the contents.
If SL's future honestly rides on how a group of people on a web site talk about it, then its demise is probably warranted.

That is, OF COURSE, bullshit.
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:30 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I just didn't get a "survey" kind of vibe from the OP. Okay, reading the OP again he does mention he's writing a paper; but he doesn't ask survey questions - he isn't like "what's your opinion on this, how do you feel about that, etc". He asks only one question really, and that's about the chronological sequence of certain events. It's not really personal or intrusive questioning; it would be like someone coming in and asking "What year was M replaced?"

It's kinda hard to find the answers to things when you're not allowed to ask people who know. You know?
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:41 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:24 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I just didn't get a "survey" kind of vibe from the OP. Okay, reading the OP again he does mention he's writing a paper; but he doesn't ask survey questions - he isn't like "what's your opinion on this, how do you feel about that, etc". He asks only one question really, and that's about the chronological sequence of certain events. It's not really personal or intrusive questioning; it would be like someone coming in and asking "What year was M replaced?"

It's kinda hard to find the answers to things when you're not allowed to ask people who know. You know?
On the other hand, Eku raised a pretty good point. OP came, dropped off his question, left, came back to collect results, and really hasn't interacted with us otherwise. That kind of sours it for me.
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