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Cindy Claveau · 05-28-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penny Patton

You can get seriously harassed in SL for not having single digits on the belly slider. I've got my belly set to 32, and my hips at 63, and I've been called fat. I've met a couple people who had really great curvy body shapes who later switched to thinner shapes because they didn't want to deal with people getting on their case about it. It's really kind of a sad statement on our culture.

I've seen more and more plus sized avs lately, and my first reaction is usually "Oh look, someone who is self-confident and looks like a real person". I always go out of my way to chat to them and feel out what kind of person they are, and almost every time they're fun-loving, sincere people.

I'm not talking about the bling babes who fill all the gangsta groups, with size-80 butts, big tits and hoochie hair. They're nothing but shallow caricatures.

Well-done plus-sized avs can be beautiful as well, and to me are a sign of courage.

Chalice Yao · 05-28-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quantum Destiny

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread, Beebo, but I can't agree with this last line. I do not think these attitudes, albeit a large minority, represent the cultural norm.

Perhaps not the skin, no, but don't confuse cultural norm/beauty ideal with what most people actually look like.

If you look at what gets promoted as the beauty ideal for females left and right, and how some that aren't near it get treated, I think it's safe to say that the thin look, be it with curves or not, is the thing that's seen as the 'norm' (altho it isn't)

**Vivianne Draper** · 05-28-2008, 09:39 AM

Karl Lagerfeld is not a genius. Any idiot can drape fabric over a size 6- model and have it look good. Notice I said model there -- clothing models also have certain porportions in addition to being extra thin.

The hard thing to do is to make clothing that looks good on normal people. Or fat people. If you can do that, THEN you are a genius. I have no respect for designers that can only design for models.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota Buck

When I was pointed to the Thinspo group by a friend who jokingly suggested I join it my reaction was "Are you fucking shitting me?" Reading through the comments on some of the pictures horrified me.
Including one from the creator of the group quoting Christina Aguilera lyrics and saying something along the lines of anyone can feel beautiful fat, thin or anorexic, just that she'd prefer to be thin or anorexic. Anorexia isn't generally something that should be aspired to, sure people aspire to be thin but there's nothing glamorous about the unhealthy options for achieving this. There's a minimum number of calories needed for normal brain function but I guess this explains Thinspo SL.
Sure Karl Lagerfeld hates "fat boned women" but he also has 70 iPods and won't see people before noon. He may be crazy talented but he's also crazy.
I've had both a plus-size and a slender avatar, just as I have gone in both directions in real life. But I suppose you could consider my avatar anorexic as I rarely feed her... in fact I have never fed her in almost 2 years. Not even once.

Rosie Barthelmess · 05-28-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalice Yao

Jesus H on a pogostick. That's just downright sad, Rosie

I guess the best reply to those IM question would be 'Beause this is how I want to be'. Period. No further explaination needed. Those that get downright insulting in public should just get ignored. Don't let those morons get to you.

And for the record..you're cute!

Speaking of clubs, or rather a pub I tend to frequent... another AV in SL I know (shows how rare they are), who matches your body shape's tendencies is DJ Sjofin. :> She plays in said pub regularly and never got a single negative comment about her looks. I know why I love that place as a regular hangout, and evade the Big Clubs (TM). Not taking yours into account tho

Thanks muchly. Yeah, people get ejected in my club for comments like that. haha!

I've been lucky to work in places that were supportive of originality... and I find the best answer I can give them is -- when I do get those questions -- "Because I love myself."

Chalice Yao · 05-28-2008, 09:45 AM

Now that I ponder it, I just remembered a few times where someone commented about my AV having too narrow hips and rear. As in, they're not feminine by their standards. Looking at how some female AVs (especially certain bling girlies) have them shaped to almost caricature-like proportions..I can't say I feel bad about it.

Brenda Connolly · 05-28-2008, 09:50 AM

One thing that has been turning me off to SL is the increasing idea of conformity in one way or another. Be it appearance, gender roles, philosphy, cultural ideals, corporate mass marketing and so on. In a place obstensible created so you can be whatever you want, so many people seem to want you to be what THEY want you to be. Maybe it's as SL grows, more and more people bring their RL baggage with them, but it is very disheartening. Why bother to come in if you are going to get hit with the same crap you have to deal with in RL?

Quantum Destiny · 05-28-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalice Yao

Perhaps not the skin, no, but don't confuse cultural norm/beauty ideal with what most people actually look like.

If you look at what gets promoted as the beauty ideal for females left and right, and how some that aren't near it get treated, I think it's safe to say that the thin look, be it with curves or not, is the thing that's seen as the 'norm' (altho it isn't)

If this is in reply to me, I'm not confused. My comment was primarily based on the attitude towards skin colour, but it's also my opinion that the waifer-thin look is not a culturally accepted norm in the west.

It's certainly true that western society finds a slim healthy look, in both men and women, as being a positive thing. But the waifer-thin boyish look for women which is so loved within the fashion world is not viewed in the same way - in the UK at least, the waifer-thin look is viewed no less negatively than obesity.

I think the 'look' that is presented in the fashion world is not only not highly represented in the demographics, but it is also not representative of societal attitude/culture.

**Siobhan OFlynn** · 05-28-2008, 10:03 AM

My avatar is also fairly petite. However, I am constantly fiddling with her hip, stomach and butt sliders trying to get that rounded, voluptous look. When I was in the process of creating her look, my ideal was Vivien Leigh. She was petite, but not bone thin. And I think facially, she is one of the most beautiful women ever.

My two favorite avatar bodies belong to Munchflower Zaius and HoseQueen McLean. They're just beautiful, perfect, rounded and sexy!

Looking at the link in the OP, I was really disturbed by those pictures. I'm very glad my teenage daughter seems to have a healthy body image. I work hard at appearing to have nonchalant conversations with her about that issue. It's very difficult raising a teenaged girl these days.

Cindy Claveau · 05-28-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalice Yao

Now that I ponder it, I just remembered a few times where someone commented about my AV having too narrow hips and rear. As in, they're not feminine by their standards. Looking at how some female AVs (especially certain bling girlies) have them shaped to almost caricature-like proportions..I can't say I feel bad about it.

When I ran Archan I actually had a guy come up to me and IM, "Max out your tits".

No "hi, how ya doin?" ... no "you look cute". No, "I'm Jim and I'm horny".

Just "max out your tits".

I ejected and banned him just for personal reasons

Quantum Destiny · 05-28-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

When I ran Archan I actually had a guy come up to me and IM, "Max out your tits".

No "hi, how ya doin?" ... no "you look cute". No, "I'm Jim and I'm horny".

Just "max out your tits".

I ejected and banned him just for personal reasons

At last, I know why you banned me

Brenda Connolly · 05-28-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

When I ran Archan I actually had a guy come up to me and IM, "Max out your tits".

No "hi, how ya doin?" ... no "you look cute". No, "I'm Jim and I'm horny".

Just "max out your tits".

I ejected and banned him just for personal reasons

I would have said "After you grow some balls"

Brenda Connolly · 05-28-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siobhan OFlynn

My avatar is also fairly petite. However, I am constantly fiddling with her hip, stomach and butt sliders trying to get that rounded, voluptous look. When I was in the process of creating her look, my ideal was Vivien Leigh. She was petite, but not bone thin. And I think facially, she is one of the most beautiful women ever.

Isn't she? She's always been a favorite.

Penny Patton · 05-28-2008, 10:19 AM

I'd say I'd disagree that "healthy thin" is currently considered the ideal, though it's certainly given lip service. Magazines will promote "healthy thin" while still showing pictures of women that go beyond that.

Skeletal, fashion model thin isn't really as widely popular, but too much emphasis is still on being "thin". You still don't see many "healthy" sized people on the big screen, or even the little screen, at least not out of Hollywood, or on American television. Maybe it's different in Europe? Here in North America political correctness has just given it a new slant, and maybe curbed the extreme a bit.

Ten · 05-28-2008, 10:22 AM

I saw this last week and immediately messaged the group owner to see if it was, as Perseph said, a joke.

Quote:

From:

Guy Seiling
Subject:

is not a joke.

Hi Tenshi,

this is not a joke. Im completely pro Ana/Mia.
so I decide made my avie in SL Thin and beautiful.
and I made this group to share only photos of thin avies. like a ana/mia club.

i know, for some people this is nonsense, but not for me.... and I made the group just for +18 years. I dont have the intention to influence nobody with this, only share with the lean people who like and has its avies.

sorry about my english, Im brazilian and my mother language is portuguese.

I wait to have answered you ;-)

*kisses and hugs*

Guy Seiling

Ten · 05-28-2008, 10:24 AM

I also found this the other day and wanted to share it with you guys as well.

No one will ever achieve what photoshop can do. It's physically not possible to be that smooth and that thin.

Here's some avatars you may know discussing an image at Thinspiration: http://www.flickr.com/photos/misseil...n/pool-thinspo

http://www.flickr.com/photos/misseil...n/pool-thinspo

Natalie P. · 05-28-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingrid N.

I'd say about all of them are either teenagers or young adults.

Because anorexia, real anorexia and not this "tee hee I'm gonna be pro-ana this month cause it is so ~fashionable~" is all about control, both over your body and your desires. It's not about being the prettiest princess or having a lot of boyfriends who will, tee hee, buy you cool shit. If it was about looking cool and glamorous, certainly not about half of anorexics would also be cutters... unless Vogue has declared forearm scars to be hip this month.

[snip]
Pro-ana turns this thing around and makes anorexia a prerequisite to living a cool, fashionable life and also makes anorexia itself into a glamorous lifestyle. It's a little bit like romanticizing tuberculosis, just updated for our modern age. Instead of making you fragile and pale and and oh so pretty anorexia makes you... fragile and skinny and oh so pretty.

This is why pro-ana is so vexing to me, it present a serious and dangerous sickness, something that will permanently fuck you up even if you don't die from it eventually as a glamorous lifestyle the just takes discipline (oh yeah.) to achieve.

I agree with you here, Ingrid, but I've also noticed that a fair sized percentage of the "fashionista" crowd seem to be women in the 30's and 40's using SL as a way to relive their 20's in some Sex in the City fantasy of how those years *should* have been. So I can see a lot of the more mature (in age, anyway) typists whittling down their avatars to reflect the bodies they see in Cosmo and the like. That said, the pro-ana movement online does seem to be largely made of younger women.

This thread makes me want to bump up my av's ass sliders some more.

Quantum Destiny · 05-28-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penny Patton

I'd say I'd disagree that "healthy thin" is currently considered the ideal, though it's certainly given lip service. Magazines will promote "healthy thin" while still showing pictures of women that go beyond that.

Skeletal, fashion model thin isn't really as widely popular, but too much emphasis is still on being "thin". You still don't see many "healthy" sized people on the big screen, or even the little screen, at least not out of Hollywood, or on American television. Maybe it's different in Europe? Here in North America political correctness has just given it a new slant, and maybe curbed the extreme a bit.

I would be surprised if there is a great amount of difference between North America and Europe, but I don't know. What you have described above fits pretty well with how things are here in the UK, though the range of what is considered 'healthy thin' is reasonably broad.

PC is certainly here in the UK, too, though it's my observation that PC doesn't usually go near waifer-thin. It seems to be more 'acceptable' to make severly negative serious comments about those who are unhealthily thin than it is to make similar comments about those who are unhealthily overweight. However, the opposite is probably true when the comments are made in a less serious, but equally harmful, way.

Persephone Milk · 05-28-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ten

I saw this last week and immediately messaged the group owner to see if it was, as Perseph said, a joke.

A joke? Where did I say that? I said it was a role play. And as another person said, a fetish. This person is turned on by girls who abuse their bodies as the result of a metal illness. Moreover, he is mischaracterizing their feelings and situation for his/her own pleasure. This isn't a joke, I never said it was a joke, and I don't find anything funny about it at all.

Ten · 05-28-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Persephone Milk

A joke? Where did I say that? I said it was a role play. And as another person said, a fetish. This person is turned on by girls who abuse their bodies as the result of a metal illness. Moreover, he is mischaracterizing their feelings and situation for his/her own pleasure. This isn't a joke, I never said it was a joke, and I don't find anything funny about it at all.

Whoa, sorry. I didn't mean as it was funny, but I don't think it's roleplay. I, apparently, picked a wrong word.

caroline ra · 05-28-2008, 10:41 AM

Just as 'healthy thin' (Im not sure what that means TBH) seems to be the ideal promoted in body weight I see a few ppl here mention 'petite' which Im assuming refers to height as well as weight.
I am quite tall for a woman, 5ft12ish without heels. No amount of exercise or dieting will change this. I have never been nor will ever be petite and looked like Zena when I was 16 (before it was considered a 'look').
Apparently women not only have to be thin to be attractive but shortarses as well

Ten · 05-28-2008, 10:42 AM

Aw, screw that Caroline, I'm 5'10 and happy to be that tall. >_> I don't want to be shorter!

Penny Patton · 05-28-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quantum Destiny

though the range of what is considered 'healthy thin' is reasonably broad.

Photoshop is still used abundantly to achieve proportions not possible with a real human body.

Quote:

PC is certainly here in the UK, too, though it's my observation that PC doesn't usually go near waifer-thin. It seems to be more 'acceptable' to make severly negative serious comments about those who are unhealthily thin than it is to make similar comments about those who are unhealthily overweight. However, the opposite is probably true when the comments are made in a less serious, but equally harmful, way.

What I meant was, political correctness has taken a turn where it is considered un-PC to promote anorexic proportions. Well, openly, at least.

As I said above and in my previous post, unrealistic proportions are still promoted as the "ideal" in media. There's even quite a bit of it in movies, post production will increase male muscles, decrease an actress' weight, etcetera. This, with women already well on the thin side. However, at the same time, everyone is careful to take the obligatory anti-anorexia stance with what they say, and what you find in print.

Ten · 05-28-2008, 10:47 AM

This isn't going to end well.

Penny Patton · 05-28-2008, 10:47 AM

Heh, in SL 6' makes you short, and 5'10" makes you an ageplayer. Max those sliders, ladies!

Quantum Destiny · 05-28-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penny Patton

What I meant was, political correctness has taken a turn where it is considered un-PC to promote anorexic proportions. Well, openly, at least.

OK sorry, I get you. Well I think it's a little more than un-PC (if the term is used in the perjorative way); I think it is genuinely viewed negatively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penny Patton

As I said above and in my previous post, unrealistic proportions are still promoted as the "ideal" in media. There's even quite a bit of it in movies, post production will increase male muscles, decrease an actress' weight, etcetera. This, with women already well on the thin side. However, at the same time, everyone is careful to take the obligatory anti-anorexia stance with what they say, and what you find in print.

Well I can't disagree with you that an 'ideal' is promoted in media, though I think that ideal has quite a broad range - perhaps more so for women than men, though.

As caroline pointed out, we may have different ideas of what is considered 'healthily thin' when we use the phrase. Where I have used it, I should have perhaps instead used 'healthy shape', as the larger end of the range I would consider to be healthy wouldn't normally be considered 'thin'.

I think I am going to bow out of this discussion now. I'm only sharing my observations of society/culture, and not expressing my personal opinion, but I still feel uncomfortable with it!

05-28-2008, 09:50 AM	#31 (permalink)
Brenda Connolly Is Very Naughty Pinned Up Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Jerzee Posts: 7,173 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: Jan 9,2007 Business: The Accidental Avatar	One thing that has been turning me off to SL is the increasing idea of conformity in one way or another. Be it appearance, gender roles, philosphy, cultural ideals, corporate mass marketing and so on. In a place obstensible created so you can be whatever you want, so many people seem to want you to be what THEY want you to be. Maybe it's as SL grows, more and more people bring their RL baggage with them, but it is very disheartening. Why bother to come in if you are going to get hit with the same crap you have to deal with in RL? __________________ My Blog, Shop, and InWorld Group http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com http://slurl.com/secondlife/Dindrane%20Elfor/176/160/46

05-28-2008, 10:24 AM	#40 (permalink)
Ten Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,918 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10/7/2006 Awards: 1	I also found this the other day and wanted to share it with you guys as well. No one will ever achieve what photoshop can do. It's physically not possible to be that smooth and that thin. Here's some avatars you may know discussing an image at Thinspiration: http://www.flickr.com/photos/misseil...n/pool-thinspo http://www.flickr.com/photos/misseil...n/pool-thinspo Last edited by Ten; 05-28-2008 at 10:30 AM.

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05-28-2008, 09:45 AM	#30 (permalink)
Chalice Yao The Purple Kinda at work. Somewhat. Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Somewhere purple, Germany Posts: 3,038 My Mood:	Now that I ponder it, I just remembered a few times where someone commented about my AV having too narrow hips and rear. As in, they're not feminine by their standards. Looking at how some female AVs (especially certain bling girlies) have them shaped to almost caricature-like proportions..I can't say I feel bad about it.

05-28-2008, 10:19 AM	#38 (permalink)
Penny Patton Moo. Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 617 My Mood: SL Join Date: 11/30/2005 Business: Happy Bivouac	I'd say I'd disagree that "healthy thin" is currently considered the ideal, though it's certainly given lip service. Magazines will promote "healthy thin" while still showing pictures of women that go beyond that. Skeletal, fashion model thin isn't really as widely popular, but too much emphasis is still on being "thin". You still don't see many "healthy" sized people on the big screen, or even the little screen, at least not out of Hollywood, or on American television. Maybe it's different in Europe? Here in North America political correctness has just given it a new slant, and maybe curbed the extreme a bit.

05-28-2008, 10:41 AM	#45 (permalink)
caroline ra Hell is other people MYOB Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Zummerzet Posts: 2,270 SL Join Date: Dec 2006	Just as 'healthy thin' (Im not sure what that means TBH) seems to be the ideal promoted in body weight I see a few ppl here mention 'petite' which Im assuming refers to height as well as weight. I am quite tall for a woman, 5ft12ish without heels. No amount of exercise or dieting will change this. I have never been nor will ever be petite and looked like Zena when I was 16 (before it was considered a 'look'). Apparently women not only have to be thin to be attractive but shortarses as well

05-28-2008, 10:42 AM	#46 (permalink)
Ten Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,918 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10/7/2006 Awards: 1	Aw, screw that Caroline, I'm 5'10 and happy to be that tall. >_> I don't want to be shorter!

05-28-2008, 10:47 AM	#48 (permalink)
Ten Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,918 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10/7/2006 Awards: 1	This isn't going to end well.

05-28-2008, 10:47 AM	#49 (permalink)
Penny Patton Moo. Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 617 My Mood: SL Join Date: 11/30/2005 Business: Happy Bivouac	Heh, in SL 6' makes you short, and 5'10" makes you an ageplayer. Max those sliders, ladies!

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