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Old 03-29-2016, 11:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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No more invisiprims

Enough about bannings and purgings, let's talk about something really important. LL is jettisoning support for the "invisiprim" textures in it's latest viewer code. It appears TPVs will be following LL's lead.

Now you may ask, so what? Who the hell wears invisiprims? They are so 2006. I don't know any prim-shoed system body holdouts, so I'm guessing no one wears invisprims any longer. But like a lot of things in SL, they live on in repurposed ways. Currently, there is no other method of masking LL water and boatbuilders (ahem) are using the invisprim texture to prevent water from sloshing around the cabins and cockpits of your favorite boats. Sure, enabling ALM disabled this feature, but that is a tradeoff I know most SL sailing fanatics live with.

If you own a boat from any of the big SL yachtmakers, you can soon expect to see a gray blob in place of your masked out water.
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Old 03-29-2016, 11:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueline trudeau View Post
If you own a boat from any of the big SL yachtmakers, you can soon expect to see a gray blob in place of your masked out water.
Word on the street is they're going to update that to make it a transparent texture, even though it won't "invisiprim".
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Old 03-29-2016, 11:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Invisiprims were still working? I honestly thought they had been removed a while back when the new rendering pipeline came out. I thought they didn't work at all with deferred rendering.
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Old 03-29-2016, 11:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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They should add to this that all boats in SL suddenly and mysteriously sink.



Due to the water.
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Old 03-29-2016, 12:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nemo Quisquam View Post
Invisiprims were still working? I honestly thought they had been removed a while back when the new rendering pipeline came out. I thought they didn't work at all with deferred rendering.
Correct. Invisprims have been broken since the release of Viewer 2 in 2010 for people running Advanced Lighting Model.
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Old 03-29-2016, 12:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wolkenreiter View Post
Correct. Invisprims have been broken since the release of Viewer 2 in 2010 for people running Advanced Lighting Model.
Yes.

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Originally Posted by jacqueline trudeau View Post
Sure, enabling ALM disabled this feature, but that is a tradeoff I know most SL sailing fanatics live with.
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Old 03-29-2016, 12:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NeoBokrug Elytis View Post
Word on the street is they're going to update that to make it a transparent texture, even though it won't "invisiprim".
Then I will correct my statement to

Quote:
If you own a boat from any of the big SL yachtmakers, you can soon expect to see linden water in place of your masked out water.
I'm not sure if that is an improvement.

The question is, why is LL deeming to "fix" this?
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Old 03-29-2016, 12:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ah... missed that comment in your original post Jacqueline. My apologies. I really shouldn't post in the morning... my posting without adequate tea is like someone else drunk-posting.
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueline trudeau View Post
The question is, why is LL deeming to "fix" this?
This is my big question.

Invisiprims never worked with the advanced lighting, and IMO that was fine...people who really needed them could fall back on non-ALM. Although I kept on expecting a TPV to put them into ALM at some point. (Though I'm reading that they had issues with shadows, and it also doesn't fix ALM water anyways)

I have no idea why LL is now completely removing them, unless the argument is 'They always were an abused glitch' (Which they were).

Hrm.
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well it was high time I got around to making an alpha mask for my feet. I kind of forgot the boots used small invisiprims.
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Old 03-29-2016, 03:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jacqueline trudeau View Post
Then I will correct my statement to



I'm not sure if that is an improvement.

The question is, why is LL deeming to "fix" this?
I would guess to promote ALM and get rid any remaining reason for not having ALM on. People have been told " oh, this won't work with ALM on. You have to turn it off"

I hope they get around fixing the eyelash glitch, too.

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Old 03-29-2016, 03:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 03-29-2016, 03:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Kyle Linden added a comment - 29/Mar/16 1:51 PM

Thank you all for the comments. We have taken all this into account and are working towards a solution.
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Old 03-29-2016, 04:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I know I'm an oldbie, so this is going to seem like a very strange question.

But are the "invisiprims" you guys talking about, different in some way from a non-"invisiprim" that simply has been textured with either the default SL transparent texture or like Torley's "Totally Transparent" texture? I've made things with transparent prims in them before but I always made them transparent with a texture. One possible workaround!
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Old 03-29-2016, 04:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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This is indeed a weird question from an oldbie.

Invisiprims (Read: Prims with the 'invisiprim texture') did not show any avatar parts, or SL water that was inside or behind them.

It was the only way to hide avatar parts before avatar alphas made it in. There still is no way to just randomly punch holes into an avatar with an attachment, or hide parts of water, say inside a boat that is supposed to be water-free.
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Old 03-29-2016, 05:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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.. not just that but they hid anything with an alpha-channel (like window/particle textures) or with a prim face that didn't have it's alpha value set to 100% (system avatar skin behaved like it was to 99% opaque).

I will miss the "hide system water" aspect... and the various 'bigger inside than outside' magic boxes that were created using invisiprims... but other than that, they were a nasty ugly kludge. The halo of 'x-ray vision' around hidden bodyparts was often ghastly.
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Old 03-29-2016, 05:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
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iirc, invisiprims reversed the order of rendering so that the environment would not be rendered the same through the prim. Someone is probably abusing it. Probably somebody trying to hide demo attachments.
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Old 03-29-2016, 05:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Wow... I remember there being an old thread discussing invisprims, and it's going back a bit: 2012! Some interesting discussion here, along with some posters who haven't been around in a while.

V3.2.5 + shadows = no invisiprims work
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Old 03-29-2016, 06:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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If Linden Labs dose not provide a way to hide system water and one of the Open sim grids dose then SL will likely lose quite a few boaters.
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Old 03-29-2016, 06:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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They weren't out to kill invisiprims, this was collateral damage from dealing with a more general problem with viewers. Some textures were failing to load, and forcing them to load led to memory problems. The solution was to stop letting viewer and inworld textures freely intermingle, which was never a wonderful idea but did make the invisiprim funkiness possible.

So, what it comes down to is that now some kind of deliberate behavior has to be programmed in for those textures when used inworld, where in the past it was just an unintended side effect.

LL haven't addressed this yet. The patches that render them as plain old transparent are user proposals. LL could use those as is, or they could add something to emulate the old behavior. They haven't said yet.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:06 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Well LL at least tries not to break existing content, so ... probably will do something kludgy in place and <image bait>put up a sticky note</image bait> to fix it better.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:24 AM   #22 (permalink)
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THe bottom line is that the way invisiprims worked was kludgy and not all that well in a lot of situations. A fully supported way of masking Linden water without the nasty side effects invisiprims gave graphically would be great. Remember when we lost temporary textures and then it turned out that for most things local textures worked a LOT better when creating stuff? I hope this is another situation like that where a solution comes out that works better than what was being used previously. Given how they worked, I'm really surprised LL left them working as long as they did.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:06 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Clearly, the solution is better water with displacement. ;-)
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Old 03-30-2016, 11:59 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Clearly, the solution is better water with displacement. ;-)
Please, no! Sim crossings are bad enough as is.

The answer, obviously, is for everyone to use hydrofoils.

Waddya think, Jaqueline, would Cap'n Nat approve of foils on an NY 30?

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Old 03-30-2016, 12:07 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Who the hell wears invisiprims? They are so 2006. I don't know any prim-shoed system body holdouts, so I'm guessing no one wears invisprims any longer.
I still see them now and then, on women who can't bear to pack up some of their fave shoes. Weird, I know, but still.

(I got rid of mine ages and ages ago.)
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