Eboni Khan

This Danae person handled this in the absolute worst way possible. She did not handle this like a person who is REALLY seeking legal action, she handled this like a person who is going to ruin someone because she can't afford the legal action, but knows she has a case. I think that she has a good case from what I have seen, but I think this whole blog and slander route she took is terrible and any good lawyer will tell her the same thing. This not how you go about a legal proceeding.

The fact she took it to a blog with TMZ like fashion reporting is her fault. She should have chose a more neutral route, like these forums, or SL forums, or done the adult and professional thing and spoke though her lawyer.

Danae in the case looks like the biggest fool in more ways than one.

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Humps

Hi Sinnocent
It is fair I think to paint us all with a big roller with regard to bias. It may be an informed bias but it is still a bias. You view Minnu one way because of your personal interactions with her and Ten another way but for the same reasons.

I admitted above that I am guilty of treating Persephone and Ten differently in a very similar situation. I did this because of my bias.

All I am saying is that bias for whatever reason is not an effective or fair method of dealing with content theft in SL.

I am not blaming Ten for the whole thing. It may look that way but I am not. I am blaming Ten for being a champion of a system I feel to be ethically wrong. It should not be up to me, you, Ten or anyone else whose business is or is not subjected to this kind of scrutiny. It should be between a complainant, a defendant and a fair, transparent and recognised authority/mediator.

Then and only then will issues like this cease to be about personalities and start to be about what really matters.

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Hypatia Callisto

a very similar situation happened to me back in another virtual world / 3d chat in 2001. Ripped off by a kid, who later confessed. The great thing is that he went on to being a great texture artist in his own right around the Poser communities, without needed to resort to ripping others work.

To sum up my observations over the years, kids are usually capable of great change after doing something wrong, adults are generally jackasses capable of great shitstorms in the same situation.

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"To begin with," said the Cat, "a dog's not mad. You grant that?"

"I suppose so," said Alice.

"Well, then," the Cat went on, "you see, a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad."

"I call it purring, not growling," said Alice.

"Call it what you like," said the Cat.

Summer

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Summer time is a nice time.

Sinnocent

No, I'm sorry it is not fair. You dont not know each and every single person commenting on this case personally. Therefor you have no way of knowing if they're judging based on bias or not!

Now if you mean that by us viewing the pictures and then forming a bias against Minnu that way, I'm not sure I understand. I don't really consider that bias, rather an informed opinion on the evidence shown.

And as for saying Danae is a fool, well yuck. She maybe shouldn't have made everything she did public. But we dont know her situation. She may not have the funds to sue Minnu into her next 3 lifetimes just yet. I mean, she isnt the one making a bundle off someone elses work. If that's the case then I fear I may have acted the same way. Okay, I can't sue her ass just yet, but I can try to make damn sure she experiences a drop in sales.

Is it the best decision? No, but I personally cant blame her for wanting to out Minnu.

And actually, even tho Minnu herself has remained quiet.. there is one employee of hers in particular that cant seem to keep her mouth shut. Minnu's employee was the first one to out the fact that Minnu was sending files to Danae. That cant have been good for Minnu's case.

So, to be fair, I have to say that BOTH sides have made mistakes.

Hypatia Callisto

Well, people said things in support of Perse I didnt think I needed to repeat, Persephone handled herself with class, so my lack of saying anything was simply because I didn't feel compelled to. I support Persephone all the way. I think that Persephone writing a post in the forum telling people about her problem was not any more wrong then Tenshi writing about it here. My only issue is folks mixing up their own personal biases in previous altercations and confusing the issue here. I believe that Ingrid has a gripe that's valid in her own personal situation... just found it distressing to mix up two unrelated issues.

I'm commenting here because I've been around the Poser communities for quite a long time, even having been a site admin for two different sites, and a tester for one in the past. So I am one of the uniquely disposed (and I'm not the only one) to be able to comment authoritively across the SL/Poser/3d communities divide. So I have, and yes, in support of Danae.

I don't think it was wrong of Tenshi to report this on her blog. Its what she does, so what. There's no rules against it, and it had the obviously desired effect. People found out in a big way, the whole issue was pulled out from under the carpet and exposed for all its glory... and the Empress was shown to be naked. I have no qualms with that.

Ingrid

I'M GOING TO HAVE THIS FRAMED. OR BRONZED. I can't decide which.

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"You know how this thread is going to end? I'll tell you how it's gonna end. It's going to end well." - Aimee Weber

Vivianne Draper

do both!

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Ingrid

I'll do that..and I will also hump Humps

Joshua Nightshade

Humps I love you but I just disagree with you.

In a community environment where most of us are making pennies for what we create, policing ourselves is the only realistic way to ensure fairness. Someone making those pennies doesn't have the money to sue someone who's ripping them off. Conversely our reputations are really the only currency we have here and when they're demonstrated deficit because someone stole something from someone else, that rightly should have a debilitating effect on business.

If it weren't for people coming forward publicly to say "This person stole from me," and if it weren't for that fear, then there would be really no reason to create anything in SL. Most of us don't take in significant amounts of money and do it for fun or to cover tier. To have someone steal on top of that really makes it seem worthless.

Yes, Tenshi is over the top and sensationalist. But I don't see her as any worse than anybody else in this. I do wish she had stuck more to impartiality instead of bias, but it is what it is. Tenshi can write on her blog however she likes. Why this had to become an issue of attacking Tenshi is beyond me.

In the end bringing these situations to light helps prevent them. Saying "it should be between the creator and the complainant" doesn't, as far as I've seen in my many years in SL.

Cindy Claveau

I'm not sure if it's my lack of coffee or your long and storied posting history, but that's how I read your post at first glance.

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Sometimes, "I hit it with my axe" is the best solution.

Joshua Nightshade

I write something serious and you make fun of me.

This is the sort of chilling effect that's ruining discussions at Virtual World Metaropolis.com/gov.

Io Zeno

Ok, look, this is getting very irritating and hypocritical.

Not only do content creators cry "theft" publicly all the time but we actively encourage such "naming and shaming". Why? Because we know LL will do nothing and it's the only way to police this kind of thing.

But if someone "goes public" through Tenshi, because, HELLO, she isn't a member of Second Life, then suddenly it's ethically questionable, should be kept quiet, and somehow suspicious.

This isn't fair to Danae who is a content creator just like the rest of you. She went through a third party to make her case public because she isn't even in SL. You are punishing her for your hatred of Tenshi, where if she came here and posted herself it would be between her and Minnu and people would be taking sides *like they always do in these cases*.

Ingrid

That's a complete oxymoron. You will never be able to guarantee fair treatment from the SL community. That's not a slurr against it, it's just the nature of people. They have their biases and preconceptions that are not always based on fact. Add to that the probability that often we do not have access to all the facts we should not be setting oursleves up as judge jury and executioner of anyone.

Having an opinion is fine. Accusing people of real crime is quite another.

Io Zeno

You know what, Ingrid, this isn't about you and Tenshi.

Joshua Nightshade

You only have a problem because it's Tenshi.

Ingrid

We do? I certainly don't. I'm pretty sure a lot of other people don't either.

Vivianne Draper

fixed

Io Zeno

And I'm sure you object as loudly whenever a content creator has done so, right?

Ingrid

And you don't like having your nipples touched

(I just figured since we're making assumptions about each other not based on fact, i'd throw that in)

Iris Seale

Wait, so I'm confused. Ari's argument over at Common.Sensible ( Skin Piracy Scenario = Fashionista Hornet’s Nest « Common.Sensible ) is that the EULA for Renderosity is such that we can all go over there, buy a character pack, bake it to low-res and sell it in SL with no possible legal repercussions? And EULA's can't be changed retroactively?

Either that's true and great for lazy people/bad for Renderosity creators--or smells highly of horseshit.

Hypatia Callisto

heh, it doesn't remain like that in ANY of the communities. The poser communities fight it out in the forums and blogs, too. This is NOTHING compared to some of the sitewars I've seen, but maybe this one has just started... I suspect we may see more of them before its all done.

Same old, same old. People have freedom of speech on their own sites. To complainers: STFU and deal with it the fact that they have this right in most western countries on their own blahgs. And you know what, so do the rest of us here. Nothing is stopping any of us from saying what we think on a blahg. And I think that's a wonderful thing.

I think that Tenshi could have gone further into the HOW it was done, to stave off the "oh, its so hard and could not possibly be done" excuse, but its quite possible that maybe she doesn't know how. So I'ma correctin' that situation, heh. Already on it.

Ingrid

I object loudly when it's right in my face, on a forum I frequent, by someone who has a history of doing similar actions.

You're asserting that I shouldn't question Tenshi's posts because that would make me biased. My question is WHY THE HELL NOT? You'd have to be an idiot not to.

Sonja Aeghin

Exactly. Sensationalism isn't the best when it comes to reporting stuff of this nature, but it does draw in the attention necessary to the issue. It's because of this that I classify the original SCD post as an op-ed expose, and in my view it should be treated as such. Like it or not, Tenshi is serving the public's right to know. It's not the best way by journalistic standards, but it's all we got it seems at this point. Treat such things with due skepticism and form your opinion accordingly.

Io Zeno

In your face? You mean it's posted on a forum. No one makes you read it.

You are equating the message with the messenger and being completely unfair because of that and if you can't see how illogical and hypocritical this is I don't know what to tell you.

If Danae had posted this herself you wouldn't care.