Originally Posted by Ingrid

I think you just proved my point. You've done the same thing to others that you did to us countless times since calling some of PC thieves. Hence, my awareness of this bad habit of yours.

Originally Posted by Ingrid

From what I understand your point is "Why Tenshi and why now?". For me anyways, I became aware of what she does because she'd done it to people I know personally. I'm not part of any of the fashion groups where most of this type of drama is heavily debatted, and witch-hunts happen, precisely for that reason.

I do, however, read this forum regularly.

Maybe Minnu's no saint, but I still can't stand the accusations (that may not always be justified) when it comes to anyone.

Originally Posted by Vivianne Draper

But no one, including you I believe, said anything on the thread here about how Tenshi shouldn't have blogged it when she came out in favor of Minnu several months ago. And you know what? The sellers in SL haven't exactly been silent about the issue. The only ones that have were Stroker and the other sellers in SL that stood with him -- they kept quiet for a long time but eventually the story came and it came out before court. WAY before court as I recall.

Hell I remember back before Naughty Island when Lost and A2A had their store elsewhere and when you walked into it you were greeted with all kinds of signs about how theft was bad and wrong and you were only buying a license to use the product and you didn't own it etc etc. Hell they had so many signs it pissed me off and I stopped shopping there until they removed them. And then there was the tear against Frangipani Designs back when they first opened up and you should have seen the sellers gang up on those folks. But now, when the shoe is on the other foot, they should have the right to be innocent until proven guilty when they have NEVER granted that right to anyone else? Bag that.

I don't know your history with SL or the third-party boards and maybe you've been around since 03 and just missed all this drama. But I don't think Tenshi is doing anything that is not a well established pattern set long ago by a large group (yes they have a group in world) of sellers. Minnu herself helped to set this pattern and now she is reaping what she sowed.

Maybe if the pattern set had been to quietly go about filing DMCAs and the community had not been appealed to time and time again, I could see your point. But the fact is that the community has been appealed to time and time again, and that this is not a pattern that Tenshi started.

Originally Posted by Ten

Well can you say what you guys were doing was a GOOD thing? Did you feel you were doing the public a good service with it? How do you personally feel the original designer would have felt? Should we rehash this all again, or should everyone just go right on back and read the Fashionista Thunderdome thread?

The only point I proved is that YOU are beyond emotionally invested in showing my "bad" side and "bad" habits, because you feel you were personally attacked.

Originally Posted by Humps

Like I said my beef is not with Ten as such. It is with the 'established pattern'. Ten (along with many others)does promote this pattern and as long as it is promoted and accepted as the only means to fight content theft in SL then it will continue. Who started it is irrelevant in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Vivianne Draper

But the thing is, no one ragged on Persephone Milk for coming to this column about when her piano got ripped off and that was really recent. I just really see a double standard here.

Not aimed at you though -- just in general.

Originally Posted by Ingrid

We weren't just "personally attacked" Tenshi. You did the same thing to one of the members of PC that you are doing doing to Minnu now. About hand drawn textures no less. Going on about piracy, theft, copying, the whole nine yards without having any REAL legal opinion (and when i mean REAL I mean not your own opinion, and not your internet research) It was a total witch-hunt that you performed more than once.

Does this make me have a negative opinion of you? Absolutely yes.

Originally Posted by Ingrid

Not having participated in the thread isn't necessarily a stamp of approval though. I avoided it.

Originally Posted by Ten

Actually it was always PC as a group, not anyone in particular. If you want to go ahead and re-read my article, please do, where I do research, cite sources, the whole nine yards of how this RL>SL thing could be a possible problem:

Second Life Herald: SL Fashion - Copying or Inspiration?

Originally Posted by Ten

So why DID you avoid the thread? And then again, why is this one important to you instead of Persephone's?

Originally Posted by Ten

Oh lord, you did have a point!! You got to it finally! Congratulations, but your princess is in another castle.

Please remind me how well the Lindens listened to Project Open Letter.

Then tell me the effectiveness of AR's.

THEN tell me how grand the JIRA is.

Then you may come back and state that you think a nice little generalized group aimed at sending paper letters to Linden Lab is going to be effective.

Originally Posted by Ingrid

Because of your prior acts. I've seen you witch-hunt before. I don't think I need to point out that this is regular fare on your blog. And you've been wrong more than once.

Originally Posted by Humps

Why do you feel the need to be so bloody nasty? I did not mean to be patronising and you thought I was so I shall give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't mean to be objectionable.

The fact is that every time you are called upon to defend your moral high ground crap you hurl insults and claim foul. Maybe you relish your rep as drama monger extrodinaire? Maybe you have too much invested now to even consider that what YOU are doing can have real consequences and someone innocent might get hurt by your vulgar crass moralising?

Either way I am done with you. I am sick of trying to be nice where you are concerned. You don't deserve it. You say Ingrid holds grudges and makes this personal? Look in a mirror lady.

Originally Posted by Hypatia Callisto

copying a fashion design is not a violation of copyright, unless you photosourced from a photo of it that is not your own.

fashion designs do not enjoy copyright.

fabric designs do though. As a historical anecdote, the House of Worth employed custom fabric designs to protect their clothing from being easily copied. Other fashion houses employ trademarked logos and fabric designs still to this day, to inhibit the knock-off industry. (doesn't completely stop them, but its only actionable if you have something in it that's actually trademarked or copyrightable - like a Chanel knockoff complete with logos)

Anyway, I am not going to stress over someone making similar designs to RL ones or SL ones, simply because its not breaking any laws. Similiar != same ... and as Ingrid is referring to handdrawn work, no copyright was violated.

Originally Posted by Ten

Yes, fabric designs and logos. The only difference with RL knockoffs and SL knockoffs is that SL is a hell of a lot smaller than, say, the whole consumerist world.

I have a problem, however, when I see an exact duplicate of an outfit that just hit the runway - down to the number of buttons - in SL no more than a week later. That smacks of lack of artistic integrity.

Originally Posted by Ten

That smacks of lack of artistic integrity.

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

So yeah, Minnu and content theft, amirite?

Originally Posted by Hypatia Callisto

Or it could be someone wants to wear it in their roleplay life, something that they could never wear in the real one. I have a hard time seeing a problem with that.

Eh, glad I mostly deal with historical stuffs

Originally Posted by Iris Seale

I tried to make an intelligent on-topic post.

Originally Posted by Ten

Sorry Iris, intelligent on-topic posts have no place here or at SCD. Why don't you just go get a mirror and spew Shakespeare's sonnets? That usually has more effect.

I you though.