Quantum Destiny

You could turn that on its head though, Chip. It's a pretty empty argument to claim Ten's alleged issues with Minnu have a bearing on this subject when that argument is made by someone who has personal issues with Ten.

I think I'm going to implode into a singularity of logic.

Quantum Destiny

My brain hurts.

Hal 9000

If it's too bad, I would very much like it if you could stop by Shodan. She needs some..... volunteers, and she'll make you feel better.

Ingrid

Well..call me crazy, but Tenshi's "guilty until proven innocent" routine doesn't sit well with me. She has made absolutely no attempt to appear unbiased in the words she choses to use on her blog and in her thread titles here. Which is fine except she's accusing people of being a thieves, punishable by law. Something that has not been proven yet. I'm beating the same old drum because Tenshi CONTINUALLY does this on her blog. If you want to blow it off, fine.

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Chip Midnight

No. I don't know Tenshi or Minnu well enough to have any pre-existing opinions about either of them so the only aspects of this that's interesting to me are the ethical issues, and I think it's a worthy concern. Whether or not someone gets unfairly judged by the court of public opinion because they're influenced by reporting that isn't objective or is driven by an existing animosity is relevant.

The only convincing evidence I've seen at this point is an eyebrow. I wouldn't convict someone on that, or on he said she said. Should people be expected to?

Ingrid

If by "someone who has personal issues" you mean, "someone who has seen Tenshi do this countless times on her blog" , then yeah that would be accurate.

Sonja Aeghin

It'll be up to the lawyers if the DMCA goes forward...Minnu hasn't been proven guilty of anything in court YET. Still, any would-be personal vendettas aside Tenshi still did the right thing imho. The original artist had a legitimate concern. Tenshi's reputation might cause people to take her SCD stories with a grain of salt, but nevertheless, the community has a right to know and decide for itself.

Siyu Suen

Off topic from the current discussion but when exactly did the bdsm gaslighting tag show up? It wasn't there yesterday and I thought the editable tag thing had been fixed

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"Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever" -Baron Munchausen

I'm attempting to bring about the end of the world to usher in a new era of mask wielding overlords. This is how!

Cindy Claveau

"She turned me into a newt!"

"A newt?"

"Well, I got better!"

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Sometimes, "I hit it with my axe" is the best solution.

Chip Midnight

I think the right thing would be to see what happens with the DMCA before reporting, or barring that, to try to equally present both sides without judgment. I'm saying that for the sake of argument because I haven't actually read Tenshi's writeup so I'm not in a position to judge how it compares to what I'd consider the ideal.

Ingrid

But that's the problem. Tenshi is only presenting one side to this. I'm not defending Minnu because I really have no idea whether or not she stole. But we certainly have not heard her side of the story. I would want to base my decision on more than someone's opinion on their personal blog, especially since it's been proven that said blogger had a unpleasant history with the "accused".

We're talking about someone's livelyhood here.

Joshua Nightshade

You guys do know that a DMCA isn't a lawsuit or anything? It will go through. That's the nature of the DMCA.

I DMCA Ingrid's avatar saying it's mine. Cris, Cris' ISP, etc, they all have to comply, whether they disagree with me or not.

Now Ingrid can come back ofcourse and say "Bullshit honkey, this avatar is mine," and counterfile. And Cris, Cris' ISP, etc all have to restore the content.

THEN, if I wanted to, I could sue Ingrid over it. Or conversely Ingrid could sue me for misfiling a DMCA.

But the DMCA is not a lawsuit, nor is it something that "isn't" going to "go through."

I keep seeing that phrasing and I think a lot of people aren't grasping it.

Sonja Aeghin

I'm not doubting that. But Minnu's side has been all too quiet on this. If Minnu has nothing to hide, why not come forward straight away with a rebuttal and any evidence that she might have so there could be a straight comparison? It's what I would do. Silence doesn't help.

To Josh: I know that about DMCA. I forgot to add 'lawsuit.' My bad.

Joshua Nightshade

It looks like Danae is serious about a lawsuit. If she is, then if I were Minnu I wouldn't say anything either as that could jeopardize my defense.

Chip Midnight

Yes, good points Josh. I'll restate that if something like this is going to be reported it should strive to be objective and as fair as possible to both the accuser and the accused. Again this is why I hate being in the position to pass judgment on other people unless I have absolute certainty. I'd feel awful if I caused great harm to someone who wasn't guilty. I suppose it's good that there are people in the SL related media who aren't as squeamish as I am, but there has to be objectivity.

Siyu Suen

Yeah, I know that there are legal reasons to be quiet, but surely saying something like "I am aware of the current allegations, and I am choosing to remain silent until I have legal consult" or something like that couldn't do any harm.

Actually nevermind, I think there was a group notice to that effect sent out.

Quantum Destiny

Agreed, but it would be in Minnu's interests to at least make a statement to that effect.

Joshua Nightshade

Oh I agree, but I really doubt by now that she has a leg to stand on. That last image Tenshi posted cleared up everything else. It's really beyond just the eyebrows.

Ingrid

I agree. Unfortunately that's not what is happening here.

And there are those who couldn't care less...

Quantum Destiny

Well to my untrained eye, it certainly appears that way.

Like Stroker's case, the result of this should be of interest to anyone who has a content business in SL, and so is well worth following.

Joshua Nightshade

Ingrid I really doubt your concern here has a whole lot to do with feeling like Minnu isn't getting her fair chance at defense as much as it does with your dislike of Tenshi.

Sonja Aeghin

... I agree on that one, Josh. There are just TOO many similarities.

Ingrid

Just because I have an opinion of Tenshi based on prior acts does not mean my concern isn't valid.

That line of thinking is absurd and illogical. That would be like me dismissing your remarks about George Bush because you have an opinion of George Bush based on what he's done while he's been in office.

If your criteria for valid commentary is commentary only from people who don't have opinions then you're going to start having to discuss topics with tree stumps and light bulbs. becasue almost everyone has an opinion about everything.

Chip Midnight

Either shooting the messenger is fine, or valid points of view should be considered even if there are questions about the objectivity of the source. You can't have it both ways.

Joshua Nightshade

Who said anything about the validity. I'm saying be honest about the reasons.

You doubt her altruistic shtick in bringing this up, I doubt your altruistic shtick in repeatedly bulldogging her about it.