Ingrid

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"You know how this thread is going to end? I'll tell you how it's gonna end. It's going to end well." - Aimee Weber

Io Zeno

I'm not judging you for hating Tenshi. I am saying that your hatred of her is clouding your judgment of this issue. If you want to point out that she has an "issue" with Minnu, fine, duly noted. But if her evidence has substance beyond some baseless accusation coming from Tenshi alone, which this does, then it becomes something else.

It was like Prokofy ranting about Plastic Duck. They were enemies and anything said had to be taken in that context. But when he called her house no one said, "oh, that crazy Prok going nuts again", we said, fuck man, that is just wrong, period.

And I apologize to Ten for bringing up Prok as an example, there is no comparison intended, it just sprang to mind, lol.

Io Zeno

And Ingrid, I'm no closer to Ten than I am to you. I don't think I've even met her inworld.

Ingrid

So? I can't be vocal about something I think is totally relevant to the topic? Well excuse the heck out of me.

Why are you getting all up in my grill anyways? If you don't think The (Second Life) Rag: Minnu the Mauler has any bearing on the topic, you don't have to read it. And I'm certainly not expecting everyone to agree with me. So chill out.

Joshua Nightshade

Io, just admit Tenshi paid you off like she did Quip and me.

I bought myself some new pants with my bribery.

Io Zeno

Well shit, I want my money.

Ingrid

To me it seems like the minute I have something to say in one of Tenshi's threads someone jumps down my throat for being biased. Of course I'm biased. Everyone is. Even you. None of us are fair... Tenshi certainly isn't. if you don't agree with me then fine. But i don't appreciate people telling me what to say and not say when i'm being perfectly civil. It's getting tiring.

Why don't we just let people say what they'd like ? Isn't that the whole idea of a forum? For people to be able to speak openly?

Siyu Suen

THANKYOU yes that's what I was trying to say.

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Joshua Nightshade

And fuck this "clouded" shit.

I will go toe to toe with anybody here if I disagree with them. I don't care who they are or how long I've known them.

If I haven't made that expressly clear with my recent argument with Aimee Weber I don't know what else I can do short of stabbing Cris in the eye.

Joshua Nightshade

Why is it fair for you to get to say what you want, but nobody can disagree with you?

Ran Garrigus

Doesn't matter how many sites have "merchant resources", I think. Say Ms. Kotsi's representation brings it up. What would be proved by it?

The existence of "merchant resources" isn't really proof of anything, beyond the fact that the community of content creators who create/use/are aware of them believe that they provide a particular set of permissions that the standard license at some place like Renderosity does not. But this belief can only be vindicated by a court, since licenses are a legal instrument and disputes concerning them can only ultimately be settled by the law.

For my part, the only possible relevance I could see is if it can be proven that Minnu Palen was aware of the existence of "merchant resources" as a community-generated means of marking materials as being usable for the specific purposes she's accused of using the Manhattan textures for. That might then be construed to mean that she should have known that Danae Kotsi did not intend to have the Manhattan textures used that way, and a judge might not like the idea that she then did it anyways even if the license might technically allow for it.

A court will be looking at the license terms of the Manhattan texture first and foremost, I would guess ... assuming it goes that far, and assuming Minnu ends up stating that she bought the package and believes her usage is legitimate under the terms of the license under which it was purchased. If she claims the similarities are solely due to similar source material, I suppose a case would focus on the likelihood of that being true from a technical standpoint.

Re: "renders",

As Cristiano and others noted, SL uses a real-time rendering engine.

I understand that Renderosity merchants are sure in their belief that "renders" specifically means "pre-rendered images such as produced by Maya, Poser, etc.", but I don't think it should be assumed that a court would agree that this is the sole (or even the primarily) reasonable understanding of the term given real-time rendering, animation rendering, and so on.

In the end, the only thing I'm sure about is that if Minnu legally licensed the textures and used them with the belief that her usage was correct, a legal case will very much turn on the court's interpretation of the relevant license(s).

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Io Zeno

It changes when more than one person says: Ingrid you are derailing this thread with Tenshi rants. Honestly, I don't care, but other people do so you should know that it's not helping your case, you just appear very biased, the same you are accusing her of.

We aren't basing our opinions on this issue because of some affection for Tenshi, hon, it's based on what Danae is saying and the photos.

Dancien Graves

I as a rule detest Tenshi. However I find no fault in her posting the article in the first place.

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Ingrid

So 2 people qualifies? Why is it other people get to talk about the fact that they think Tenshi isn't being entirely fair but when I do it gets labelled as a rant form you and Josh (as per usual)

Anyways, like I said, we're just going to disagree on this.

Joshua Nightshade

Where did I say you were ranting?

Ingrid

Posting the email from Danae was not an issue but calling it "theft" as she has in the title of this thread is yet to be determined (by both parties lawyers at this point presumably). And as such, I think it's unfair and her bias is showing.

Io Zeno

Alright.

I'm taking my mom out to dinner.

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY TO ALL THE MOMS!!

Joshua Nightshade

Oh shitfucker, that's today?

Oops.

Dancien Graves

So instead of theft she should have called it "intentional borrowing"? Actually Ingrid, how about you regale us with how you would have labelled the article.

Lucifer Baphomet

Υρατια

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Chip Midnight

Since no one has, or even can, prove conclusively that Minnu did what she's been accused of, I'd say all ethical questions surrounding this are valid topics of conversation. It's a bit hypocritical to jump all over Ingrid for bringing up a valid ethical issue in relation to this while using the "don't attack the messenger" defense. Does that only count for the messenger of the point you agree with and not any dissenting viewpoints? Just sayin'

Ingrid

How about "possible theft"? The court of Tenshi has closed this case but for some of us, knowing that there's much of this that we don't know about and might not know about makes it not so open and shut.

Joshua Nightshade

Because it's an issue only because Ingrid hates Tenshi.

Which is weird that her complaint is that Tenshi hates Minnu, which is why this thread exists.

Ingrid

Are you saying Tenshi's lack of ethics is only an issue to me? Caaauseee... that would be innacurate.

Josh Look up..way up..at the title of this thread. See where it says "theft"? Now please point me to the court verdict (real life, not the court of Tenshi) where Minnu was found guilty of theft.

Joshua Nightshade

If we're going to start pulling out court verdicts for any little comment to be made here then I'm suing you for libel in questioning my ability to comment impartially on any thread made by Tenshi.