Ari Blackthorne

“Skin Theft” - [Intermediate] - Witch-hunt? « Common.Sensible

Summer

Why do I need to go to every freakin website to get the scoop, why come here and just post the link..for god's sake man..at least give me a teaser paragraph!

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Summer time is a nice time.

Hypatia Callisto

I'm not quite sure if what Minnu has done is even wrong, provided that she bought the textures in question. The license is not very clear on the issue, and the only mention of realtime 3d has to do with the now very outdated Metastream format. She does not make the texture available in an easily extracted form. The only part that seems to deal with it is mapping it to a flat plane, but then it's been uploaded at a low res and to a completely different UV set, that you couldn't in all seriousness reconstruct the original product from it. Yes it can be ripped, but you can't pull the original product from the sl textures.

So, I would definitely hesitate to call it theft, until I had faaar more info on the subject. The license may not even pass court scrutiny.

I can only ascertain that she used Danae's texture to create Generation 4. Whether she had the right to do this, is another question I can't really answer for sure. It's not a normal situation of rip and steal, here.

Of course this is assuming that Minnu bought it. If she didn't, well all bets are off. If she did, then this is a really complex situation. I know though, that most Poser texture artists don't make their textures to be used in anything but rendering in Poser. Many of them are pretty unaware of the full extent of the realtime applications of their talents.

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"To begin with," said the Cat, "a dog's not mad. You grant that?"

"I suppose so," said Alice.

"Well, then," the Cat went on, "you see, a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad."

"I call it purring, not growling," said Alice.

"Call it what you like," said the Cat.

Hypatia Callisto

o hai!

now I have an overwhelming desire for waffles.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forum...ead_id=2739206

chaos kitteh haz ur dramaz postted.

Hypatia Callisto

smiles... guess I should take a V3 merchant resource I have for a while, and work up a nice Modo tutorial.

grin.

Hypatia Callisto

ah, more info...

"These files are copyrighted. The product can be used for commercial and non commercial renders. Do not redistribute in part or whole without the author's written consent."

This is in Danae's readme. Very clear. Minnu's got problems.

But it is not wrong to use Renderosity merchant resources licensed for use in games and texture creation.

Stephanie Misfit

Actually Hypatia, ANY Modo tutorials you could offer for texturing for SL would be so appreciated!

Dancien Graves

Luxology Forum > Modo to Second Life?


http://www.lovecraftforest.com/blog/


The second link seems to be a blog with alot of info about it.

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Stephanie Misfit

Thanks Dancien! I saw an SL skin tutorial for Modo a while back, I'll have to try and find the link for it again, unless someone else has it.

EDIT: Oh, it's Nichola Escher's of course http://nicolaescher.com/journal/arti...-avatar-part-1

Ten

You're completely right, Cindy. In fact, let's go find Minnu and ask her about all of this.

Or find her "lawyers" and ask for a comment.

Do you think that would work?

I'm not posting these images at the blog, but I'll post them here. They're new, from Danae via email. I'm tired, sunburned, and lazy, and don't feel like dragging this on loooongggerrrr at SCD. I haven't even been able to catch up on those even; WP has been down since I got home, updating their servers or something. How dare they provide me with better service.






Oh, and I also have to say that if people are going to "rake me over the coals", I have to be there to witness and be raked across said coals, don't I? I've been gone Conveniently.

--edit-- someone also IM'd me this link while I was away. I have to say it holds much less water than Danae's comparison images. http://i32.tinypic.com/idgex1.jpg

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CoyoteMomiji

Cindy, do you remember the whole dustup between Anton (of Apollo Max fame) and the guy who created Clark, wherein Anton accused him of ripping off pieces of AM's mesh?

If it were Anton (or someone like him) making accusations against Minnu, I'd roll my eyes - but I can't remember Danae ever making such a charge, and the evidence here is pretty damning.

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Slick closed until further notice.

Recidivist Sideways: YOU'LL TAKE MY ROUGH, BUTTERY FRIENDSHIP, AND YOU'LL LIKE IT

Hypatia Callisto

if Anton comes here, I'll make sure I haz my verbal AK-47 loaded. And suggest the rest of the forum do the same Loathe isn't a strong enough word to describe my feelings about him.

Oh, and Redgrave is in that other set of pics too, break out the drinks and popcorn, we're in for a major show

Cindy Claveau

I've said already that the evidence appears to be damning, so we agree on that part.

I've known about Danae for a long time through Renderosity. My impression of her has never been anything but a person of high standards who does dazzling work. Her standing in the Poser community speaks for itself.

But then again, I'm not the one who needs to pass a judgment here. This is for Minnu and Danae to work out, and "trial by press" has never been fair nor accurate - "trial by blog" is even more unfair, since blogs don't operate under the same journalistic standards as newspapers or television.

Mostly all such a faux trial does is pervert public opinion before all the facts are analyzed. If (admittedly a big if) Minnu is somehow able to clear herself, she'll have a huge hill to climb back to respectibility even if she did nothing wrong. How fair would that be?

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Sometimes, "I hit it with my axe" is the best solution.

Ten

That "Alex from Halflife" pic was emailed to me from an alt, created 5.9.08 and its only shown group is my (known) alt's hair group, Fawn Fotherington. How odd. You'd think they were trying to tie themselves to me.

Siyu Suen

I can't be the only one who can't read the renderosity links whatsoever, right? Do I really have to register on a site I'll never visit just to know what people are talking about?

Quote things for the benefit of the lazy and I will send you luffs and fezzes

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"Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever" -Baron Munchausen

I'm attempting to bring about the end of the world to usher in a new era of mask wielding overlords. This is how!

Cindy Claveau

In the journalistic world, that's the only way this story would have ever seen the light of day. Of course, blogs operate differently. On a blog you can print anything you want without verification or sourcing. As opinion channels and community tools, they're great. As trustworthy news sources, they're severely wanting.

Minnu probably just didn't realize that her guilt or innocence rested on how she responded to a blogger. She'll learn, though.

Io Zeno

plz to show me how to make or steal skinz so I can make teh moniez.

Ten

Go register, it takes all of five minutes.

Cindy Claveau

Well since you put it that way!

It's a rather long thread which I won't copy here. But some pertinent excerpts:

(I really admire LadyElf, she's been active in Renderosity for several years).

So where's my luffs?!!

Ten

Which "journalistic" world are we talking about here? From what I've seen, those real, live, "big time" journalists do articles and stories like this often, with half-source as I had. Minnu refuses to make a comment regarding this situation.

I was, and am, forced to go along with one side, and it will continue to be one-sided unless Minnu decides that it would be a good idea to publish a rebuttle on SCD.

Her lack of response, I will agree, is not reacting well with her "fan base".

Io Zeno

I have a fear of making skins and frankly this thread isn't helping. Now I feel like I either have to learn 5 new software applications or steal and stealing is looking like the better option.

Ten

Io Zeno

Then you can report on my theft and we will settle it with jello wrestling!

Quiplash

Looks like Cindy and I were doing the same thing simultaneously (Cindy, you must be an Enneagram Two): creating a synopsis of what is being discussed over at Renerosity for those who do not wish to register for yet another forum.

The gist of what is going on over at Renderosity is that Minnu got some 'splainin' to do.

In response to a post from ArchTx exploring the possibility that the Renderosity TOS could be interpreted to let Minnu use Danae's skins in this way (assuming that Minnu did use them, of course; thus far she has stated she took her images from porn). The response from a member named Lucie was:
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Minnu isn't making commercial renders of the product. Commercial renders are the character rendered in a 3D program. There's no render in what Minnu is doing, she just opened some of the files included in the pack in a 2D program, and altered them slightly to fit the Second Life template,what she is offering in her store aren't renders of the product, they are a part of Danae's product, she is redistributing the files in part or whole without the author's written consent. (bold as in original post)
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Another comment from LadyElf:

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What angers me the most about all of this mess, is the constant and insistent defense that what this person did was all okay, because afterall the license might be a bit vague. It's kind of like the "well, you didn't say I couldn't copy your artwork on your site, so I figured it was okay." I'm not saying anyone here is doing that, but on the blog there sure are.

The license is not vague....not unless you are deliberately looking for a loophole.

There are good, good people in all of these communities, but unfortunately, we mirror society in the "real world" where we hear the bad, the bad, the bad and after a while that is all we perceive, because as in the real world, it seems that the bad ones get away with what they should not.....we sit and read as others rush to their defense, blindly sometimes it seems and shake our heads and wonder where the ethics and the integrity have gone.

Not being shortsighted at all....not sure where you even can think that. I believe that any creator has a right to protect what is theirs, something they have earned through hard work. If they wish their work to be redistributed and used among whomever, that is totally their choice. However, if they do not, then they need to (apparently)clarify it even MORE known then it has been. Licenses need to be updated to keep up with the advent of different online communities where members can make money selling their wares. Doesn't matter if it's SL doesn't matter if it's one that pops up in the future, the license needs to and can be stated so as to cover most of what we can see down the road. And as things change the license will need to be changed again, simple as that.

Everyone and I mean everyone that is here at Renderosity and a merchant knows that purchasing another merchants skin texture here and then using it for a merchant resource in order to make something for sale is a huge blunder, unless of course it was marked as a merchant resource.

Now had this merchant puchased a merchant resource package instead, there would not be this problem (at least I don't believe so) because that is the intention of the package. To be used after modification (it even says that in the license for most of them) for other "for sale" packages or skins.

Danae's work was never intended to be used that way. It was not a merchant resource, was never stated to be one. Why this person did not purchase one of those instead is beyond me.....(it's not really, but I'm being polite here)

Yes, all online communities have their "ethically" challenged members. I don't think anyone here is saying "they are all thieves", that is not the issue at hand. Nor is anyone saying that the Poser community is not without their own members that have less then ethical behaviour, everyone agrees on this. The issue at hand is Danae's unfortunate incident and others that have yet to be uncovered or pursued.

What happened to Danae is wrong, so wrong. The person that has done this from what I have read (and I've been digging a bit, I'm just like that) has not only hurt Danae, but all of those that purchased the products over at SL.

To me, this is worse then piracy. This is the violation of something precious, something that all artists hold very close and that is what we create. Whether we create it for sale, or create it in the name of art, it is still very upclose and personal. At least those that do the piracy don't claim that they did the work themselves and turn around and sell it to unsuspecting innocent people. And before you jump down my throat about the piracy thing......that makes me angry also, but this, stealing another's work, calling it your own and then profiting from it is much worse. Think about it.

Danae, I hope you kick some serious butt over this, I really do. That is what is needed perhaps to finally make some progress not only in that community but others as well.
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The general consensus among the Renderosity regulars is that they feel that SL users have been stealing their work, they're fed up with it, and they wasnt the Lindens to step in and stop it (yeah I know, good luck on that last one).



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Io Zeno

It's worse than the holocaust even.





























oh, bugger off I'm drunk.