SLUniverse Forums

Joshua Nightshade · 10-05-2007, 12:39 AM

Did anyone notice this?

http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/0...on-of-lawsuit/

Quote:

Linden Research, Inc., Philip Rosedale, and Marc Bragg have agreed to settle the “Bragg v. Linden and Rosedale” lawsuit currently pending in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. The parties agree that there were unfortunate disagreements and miscommunications regarding the conduct and behavior by both sides and are pleased to report that Mr. Bragg’s “Marc Woebegone” account, privileges and responsibilities to the Second Life community have been restored. For the benefit of the Second Life community, the Parties have mutually agreed that the terms of their resolution shall remain confidential. The Parties ask that this confidentiality be respected.

Methinks the TOS fairies started calling and LL decided it was in their best interests to back the fuck off.

Adam Zaius · 10-05-2007, 12:40 AM

Should you be sleeping?

Joshua Nightshade · 10-05-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Zaius

Should you be sleeping?

can't sleep

clown will eat me

Adam Zaius · 10-05-2007, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

can't sleep

clown will eat me

Irsaeli clown? *grin*

ZATZAi · 10-05-2007, 12:46 AM

Most cases settle, that's the norm. By and large it makes sense, financially and legally to settle, especially if new case law could potentially be created because of your case, case law that could harm you.

Aodhan McDunnough · 10-05-2007, 12:59 AM

We can't really comment on this since part of the agreement is that the settlement conditions are to be kept confidential by all parties.

Until someone breaks that confidentiality agreement, wild speculation is as far as we can get.

Charlemagne Allen · 10-05-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aodhan McDunnough

We can't really comment on this since part of the agreement is that the settlement conditions are to be kept confidential by all parties.

Until someone breaks that confidentiality agreement, wild speculation is as far as we can get.

What's wrong with wild, groundless speculation?

juro · 10-05-2007, 02:25 AM

Now that it has been settled, would it be *too* bitchy for me to ban his ass from all my land?

Adam Zaius · 10-05-2007, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juro

Now that it has been settled, would it be *too* bitchy for me to ban his ass from all my land?

Hey Juro! (Is that Mr. Kothari?)

juro · 10-05-2007, 02:29 AM

Yep. It's me. I finally emerged from the depths of the office. How are ya?

Adam Zaius · 10-05-2007, 02:32 AM

Awesome. I'm in SF on Sunday for a couple of days before the big Virtual Worlds conference - we should try catch up.

Cristiano · 10-05-2007, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juro

Now that it has been settled, would it be *too* bitchy for me to ban his ass from all my land?

Welcome, Juro, nice to see you again

juro · 10-05-2007, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Zaius

Awesome. I'm in SF on Sunday for a couple of days before the big Virtual Worlds conference - we should try catch up.

Yes! We should... I did hear a rumor about dinner plans on Sunday.

juro · 10-05-2007, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

Welcome, Juro, nice to see you again

Good to be "back", Cristiano! RL has been soakin' up all my SL time lately.

prinţesă nină · 10-05-2007, 03:27 AM

bah

i was looking forward to greeting governor bragg

Aodhan McDunnough · 10-05-2007, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne Allen

What's wrong with wild, groundless speculation?

Wellllll ... some people have fun doing so. i'm not one of them though. I'm an engineer by training so I purged "groundless speculation" from my menu of options long ago ... it's a matter of survival. We make a habit of treading carefully because there are times that mistakes can be fatal.

Oh but me and my friends engage in less controversial speculations, like who is likely to be cast into whatever role in whatever movie. But I don't want to do that for this case, it's too hot.

WarKirby Magojiro · 10-05-2007, 04:12 AM

Well, here's soem groundful speculation, then. LL restored his account. That would indicate they were losing, and gave in.

Aodhan McDunnough · 10-05-2007, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarKirby Magojiro

Well, here's soem groundful speculation, then. LL restored his account. That would indicate they were losing, and gave in.

An alternative would be that they got something in exchange. As mentioned earlier settlements happen often because both parties don't want the case to drag, it does translate to lots of costs/fees.

Walker Moore · 10-05-2007, 06:24 AM

You mean Mr Bragg wasn't a man of principle after all, out to save the day for the rest of us?

Eata · 10-05-2007, 07:12 AM

I would bet that LL gave back the money and the account and Bragg agreed to give up about the land.

I don't think the court would totally agreed with Bragg as there were dodgy dealings going on but I do think they would have rejected some parts of the TOS and definately the part where they kept his money.

Aodhan McDunnough · 10-05-2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eata

I would bet that LL gave back the money and the account and Bragg agreed to give up about the land.

A distinct possibility. It would explain the presence of the word "pleased" in the blog announcement. This to me is the most sensible kind of settlement.

Joshua Nightshade · 10-05-2007, 08:18 AM

It's not about groundless speculation; I'm disappointed. Either way LL was not going to make out well with this, whether they won the lawsuit or not. Their TOS is a laughable clusterfuck completely at odds with their marketing department.

I was certain that they surely were aware of this, which was why I was so surprised when they pushed for the lawsuit anyway.

LL most certainly got something out of this: saving their asses. I wanted this to go to court.

Ah well. At least there's a precedent of sorts; someone sued and didn't lose necessarily. Who's up next?

william Fish · 10-05-2007, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aodhan McDunnough

We can't really comment on this since part of the agreement is that the settlement conditions are to be kept confidential by all parties.

Until someone breaks that confidentiality agreement, wild speculation is as far as we can get.

I think this is why LL settled http://secondlife.reuters.com/storie...bragg-lawsuit/

and by the way im pretty sure LL's blog post was fluffed to make both sides look like they were at fault "The parties agree that there were unfortunate disagreements and miscommunications regarding the conduct and behavior by both sides"

Naturally a "PC" game that LL is playing.

william Fish · 10-05-2007, 08:46 AM

I was a neighbor of Marc's he owned the sim next to caeshu a year ago. Shortly after i realized his sim was up for auction, i read about Marc taking LL to court over it.

In no way did Marc agree to give the land back, that's why it went to court in the first place. According to Reuters.com marc lost thousands of us dollars invested in world land.

Bottom line, as mentioned before, LL's TOS was to blame and infact LL did rewrite their TOS (which we all just agreed to again recently) to make it more "fair".

On the flip side, what Marc did was found a loop hole in the way land was auctioned and won the land at "below market vaule" again according to Reuters.com. SO yeah tech. both were to blame for this problem. LL just didnt handle it correctly which got them into hot water and involved the TOS..... weird.

FlipperPA Peregrine · 10-05-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarKirby Magojiro

Well, here's soem groundful speculation, then. LL restored his account. That would indicate they were losing, and gave in.

I couldn't disagree more. Don't just pile on LL in this case because their track record of technical performance is sub-par.

The discovery round clearly wasn't going Bragg's way - chat logs indicating he knew what he was doing was "wrong", "using an exploit", etc. Litigation like this is silly, and a waste of LL's time. They probably paid him the $3000 they would have refunded him anyway (his L$ plus the $300 cost he was paying for sims) if he hadn't sued, and probably a little extra just to make a problem go away.

From what emerged during discovery, Bragg would have been pwned, and the only people to get rich out of it would have been the lawyers (as usual).

Regards,

-Flip

10-05-2007, 12:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
ZATZAi Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California Posts: 2,423 XBOX Leaderboard: 7^th	Most cases settle, that's the norm. By and large it makes sense, financially and legally to settle, especially if new case law could potentially be created because of your case, case law that could harm you. __________________ - ZATZAi

10-05-2007, 03:27 AM	#15 (permalink)
prinţesă nină Banned adores her psycho Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: melbourne Posts: 4,360 SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood:	goddamnit bah i was looking forward to greeting governor bragg

10-05-2007, 12:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
Adam Zaius Ruins everything. Has a gay lisp when drunk. Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Perth, Orstraya. Posts: 2,516 SL Join Date: 9-Jan-04 Business: Azure Islands My Mood:	Should you be sleeping?

10-05-2007, 12:59 AM	#6 (permalink)
Aodhan McDunnough exp(ln(Gearhead)) ti gnivol dna ykeeG Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 3,618 Beer Tapper Gone Wild Champion! SL Join Date: March 28, 2006 Business: Aodhan's Forge SLShopper Ads: 2 My Mood:	We can't really comment on this since part of the agreement is that the settlement conditions are to be kept confidential by all parties. Until someone breaks that confidentiality agreement, wild speculation is as far as we can get.

10-05-2007, 02:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
juro Senior Member Sdit Etatus Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 219 SLShopper Ads: 2 My Mood:	Now that it has been settled, would it be too bitchy for me to ban his ass from all my land?

10-05-2007, 02:29 AM	#10 (permalink)
juro Senior Member Sdit Etatus Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 219 SLShopper Ads: 2 My Mood:	Yep. It's me. I finally emerged from the depths of the office. How are ya?

10-05-2007, 02:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
Adam Zaius Ruins everything. Has a gay lisp when drunk. Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Perth, Orstraya. Posts: 2,516 SL Join Date: 9-Jan-04 Business: Azure Islands My Mood:	Awesome. I'm in SF on Sunday for a couple of days before the big Virtual Worlds conference - we should try catch up.

10-05-2007, 04:12 AM	#17 (permalink)
WarKirby Magojiro Doing stuff Made new armor ^^ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 2,577 SL Join Date: 14/10/2006 Business: MagoTek Industries SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood:	Well, here's soem groundful speculation, then. LL restored his account. That would indicate they were losing, and gave in.

10-05-2007, 06:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
Walker Moore Invisible Man Alpha Inside (tm) Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 8,053 Doom Rider Champion!	You mean Mr Bragg wasn't a man of principle after all, out to save the day for the rest of us?

10-05-2007, 07:12 AM	#20 (permalink)
Eata Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 462 Memory Cats Champion! Cone Crazy 2 Champion! My Mood:	I would bet that LL gave back the money and the account and Bragg agreed to give up about the land. I don't think the court would totally agreed with Bragg as there were dodgy dealings going on but I do think they would have rejected some parts of the TOS and definately the part where they kept his money.

10-05-2007, 08:18 AM	#22 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 22,229 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	It's not about groundless speculation; I'm disappointed. Either way LL was not going to make out well with this, whether they won the lawsuit or not. Their TOS is a laughable clusterfuck completely at odds with their marketing department. I was certain that they surely were aware of this, which was why I was so surprised when they pushed for the lawsuit anyway. LL most certainly got something out of this: saving their asses. I wanted this to go to court. Ah well. At least there's a precedent of sorts; someone sued and didn't lose necessarily. Who's up next?

10-05-2007, 08:46 AM	#24 (permalink)
william Fish Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 76 My Mood:	I was a neighbor of Marc's he owned the sim next to caeshu a year ago. Shortly after i realized his sim was up for auction, i read about Marc taking LL to court over it. In no way did Marc agree to give the land back, that's why it went to court in the first place. According to Reuters.com marc lost thousands of us dollars invested in world land. Bottom line, as mentioned before, LL's TOS was to blame and infact LL did rewrite their TOS (which we all just agreed to again recently) to make it more "fair". On the flip side, what Marc did was found a loop hole in the way land was auctioned and won the land at "below market vaule" again according to Reuters.com. SO yeah tech. both were to blame for this problem. LL just didnt handle it correctly which got them into hot water and involved the TOS..... weird.