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Arilynn · 11-07-2009, 06:26 PM

I have been wondering about the ethics of eating meat and how others who may have considered this address the issue. To me, there are a multitude of reasons not to eat meat: the suffering of animals, especially on industrial farms; environmental concern ranging from waste management to deforestation; the questionable quality of meat from animals that are routinely dosed with preventative antibiotics and hormones; the health effects of a diet heavy in red meat. The reasons for eating meat are fewer, although perhaps more emotionally compelling (/sidesteps the use of the word "visceral"): meat is a good source of cheap protein; humans are designed to eat meat of some form; and meat is part of most people's beloved dishes and traditions.

I've reread parts of Michael Pollan's "The Omnivore's Dilemma", which doesn't really do much for me on this topic. I'll probably read Jonathan Safran Foer's "Eating Animals", but some of the stuff I have read about his arguments leaves me unmoved. I recently watched an HBO documentary about atrocious euthanasia practices on a pig farm, which actually upset me less than the everyday conditions of animals I have read about. On the other hand, on some level I don't buy into the root arguments often made against eating another species, although I was a vegan for years and still rarely eat meat.

Have you considered this issue? What conclusions did you reach?

[Yikes, I just realized I have blasphemed in close approximation to the House of Bacon. Forgive me, Brother Bart.

]

Lo Jacobs · 11-07-2009, 06:59 PM

I eat meat and I've toyed for a couple of years now about becoming a vegetarian (I process things slowly). I rarely eat red meat, though I am devoted to various fish and poultry, especially sushi and bagels 'n lox.

I had one vegetarian friend who had dreadful eating habits, she would eat nothing all day and then have a cup of echinacea and Emergen-C and a strawberry and wonder why she felt nauseous (I really don't think she cared one bit about the environment or otherwise, it was a conversation starter and she was trying to lose weight, though she liked to pretend that she knew about this crap).

I also knew a vegan who was passionate about cooking and was always making interesting things with blenders (I could never be a vegan, though I'm not against vegetarianism. In theory).

I think one problem for me as far as vegetarianism goes would be money -- I don't know if it would be affordable for me to do so. I don't have a lot of money at the best of times and I get bored fast if I'm eating the same thing for two or three days. Meat just fills you up nicely and while I've only just gotten around to learning how to cook it, nothing beats a nice tuna melt.

One of my next culinary goals is to study and master vegetarian Indian cooking (the fact that Boyfriend detests lentils and was forced to eat them as a child is a big roadblock) so I'm very curious as to how I might be able to cut down my meat consumption to perhaps once or at most twice a week. I think it is just healthier to eat meat only occasionally.

Camille Serpentine · 11-07-2009, 07:02 PM

You might like the Colin McEnroe show next monday, they are going to do a whole episode on eating animals based on a book of the same name (through wnpr in connecticut). (the book you mentioned.)
The friday show had a small segment on it, starting at 43:11
CMS: Exploring Our Rivers | Connecticut Public Broadcasting Network

But monday's show will be a full episode.
The little snippet is a talk with a woman who has a farm in connecticut where they grow all their own animals to harvest (plus plants). Originally she was vegetarian because of how animals were treated.
It is quite interesting.

Joseph Worthington · 11-07-2009, 07:05 PM

I personally have no qualms about eating meat. I do think it's unfortunate the way we have to "produce" our meat, given the large quantity of people who will happily consume it, but as an individual I simply can't bring myself to not eat meat. I see it as a perfectly normal and natural part of life, and simply can't bring myself to feel bad about it.

Nimrod Yaffle · 11-07-2009, 07:07 PM

Fmeh · 11-07-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Worthington

I personally have no qualms about eating meat. I do think it's unfortunate the way we have to "produce" our meat, given the large quantity of people who will happily consume it, but as an individual I simply can't bring myself to not eat meat. I see it as a perfectly normal and natural part of life, and simply can't bring myself to feel bad about it.

My sentiments exactly

Har Fairweather · 11-07-2009, 07:29 PM

Every day thousands, perhaps millions of protozoans - little, wee animals! - find their way into your body. Tiny, helpless, innocent creatures who did not ask to be brought into your giant, remorseless, unfeeling corpus. Most of them die a horrible, sometimes slow death in an acid bath in your stomach. Those that actually wind up in your blood stream or among your body's cells are set upon by your unfeeling, uncaring, murdering body, which releases vast hordes of immune cells to hunt them down in order to kill them in the most horrifying manner conceivable: They are surrounded, engulfed, and EATEN ALIVE ZOMG!!!! by these immune system cells. You are already a mass murderer millions of times over, just by being alive, and slaughter more helpless living things every day in this horrifying manner. If you didn't, these tiny protozoans would happily eat you alive, or cause you to sicken and die from their poisonous wastes. And you're obsessing over a bit of meat? Wuss.

/me wanders off to satisfy a sudden craving for raw, bloody meat in accordance with the laws of nature as developed under Darwinian selection over hundreds of millions of years. Yum.

Surreal · 11-07-2009, 07:30 PM

I have concerns around the raising of meat, but not the eating. I'm an apex predator, what can I say.

I handle my ethical issues by trying to stick with free range, grass-fed animals, humanely killed. I also don't eat meat at every meal, or even every day.

I tried going vegetarian and I felt lousy and hungry most of the time even though I ate plenty of plant-based protein. I also craved sugar more than usual.

Aimee Weber · 11-07-2009, 07:34 PM

I only eat things that kill other lifeforms or cause other lifeforms to die.

They have it coming!

Kristian · 11-07-2009, 07:35 PM

I'm torn between the fact that pigs are very intelligent with the fact that sausage is fucking delicious quite often. Delicious thus far has won out.

Siggy · 11-07-2009, 07:38 PM

I'm top of the food chain... and I fucking LOVE it!

**Vertigo Paris** · 11-07-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal

I have concerns around the raising of meat, but not the eating. I'm an apex predator, what can I say.

I handle my ethical issues by trying to stick with free range, grass-fed animals, humanely killed. I also don't eat meat at every meal, or even every day.

I tried going vegetarian and I felt lousy and hungry most of the time even though I ate plenty of plant-based protein. I also craved sugar more than usual.

Well, except the vegetarian part, I know that wouldn't work for me AT ALL.

Phoenix Psaltery · 11-07-2009, 07:56 PM

I have no problem with being carnivorous. Fuck those Cullen idiots.

P2

Arilynn · 11-07-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Har Fairweather

And you're obsessing over a bit of meat? Wuss.

/me wanders off to satisfy a sudden craving for raw, bloody meat in accordance with the laws of nature as developed under Darwinian selection over hundreds of millions of years. Yum.

Bleh. This, along with the wretched history of animal welfare posts, is exactly why I didn't put this in PRS; my tolerance for hyperbolic rhetoric is really low these days.

FTR, I think not giving much consideration to the issue is valid. While I find myself mulling over these issues, I find the argument that one must think deeply about every aspect of one's food to be precious and tiresome. Everything we do on this planet has an impact, and requiring meaningful contemplation about all aspects of our lives would lead to mental gridlock. That's why the OP asks whether people had considered it. If not, fine.

Persephone Milk · 11-07-2009, 08:10 PM

I was a vegetarian for twelve years - for all of the reasons you listed Arilynn, and more. In recent years I have added some meat back, but only in moderation. I don't think that eating meat is wrong, but I do think that eating meat as often as we do, and in the quantity we do today is decadent and foolish. Over the years I educated myself with regard to our food choices and how they impact the environment, the economy, our health, and the welfare of animals. Though I do now enjoy occasional meat, I cannot turn away from the fact that we are killing nearly ten billion animals a year in the United States alone. And for those concerned about the cost of a vegetarian diet, consider for a moment that if the government weren't subsidizing various food industries, eating meat would be many times more expensive than it is today. I do not believe the Earth can ultimately sustain this type of behavior. But hey, I could be wrong

tygarys · 11-07-2009, 08:22 PM

I'm a lifetime member of PETA, People Eating Tasty Animals.

Lo Jacobs · 11-07-2009, 08:35 PM

I don't think one can become a vegetarian without needing to get educated about cooking as well. You can't just survive on pasta and rice.

Imnotgoing Sideways · 11-07-2009, 08:43 PM

I eat food. I prefer food that tastes good. Beyond that, I couldn't care less where it comes from. (^_^)

Try Vietnamese cooking for 10 years, you'll come to the same conclusion. Fishsuauce FTW!!! \(^o^)/

Har Fairweather · 11-07-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilynn

Bleh. This, along with the wretched history of animal welfare posts, is exactly why I didn't put this in PRS; my tolerance for hyperbolic rhetoric is really low these days.

FTR, I think not giving much consideration to the issue is valid. While I find myself mulling over these issues, I find the argument that one must think deeply about every aspect of one's food to be precious and tiresome. Everything we do on this planet has an impact, and requiring meaningful contemplation about all aspects of our lives would lead to mental gridlock. That's why the OP asks whether people had considered it. If not, fine.

Sorry if I caught you in a low mood. Hope you feel better soon.

Betty Barracuda · 11-07-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lo Jacobs

I don't think one can become a vegetarian without needing to get educated about cooking as well. You can't just survive on pasta and rice.

or at least, that's what people should do. I have known so many "vegetarians" who really did not eat properly. The funny thing is... some of them actually didn't eat that many veggies at all. They were more like... friesivores.

Sansarya · 11-07-2009, 09:37 PM

I know what it is to go hungry. I'll eat almost anything you put in front of me as long as it's cooked (sushi, yech) and somewhat edible.

Arilynn · 11-07-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansarya

I know what it is to go hungry. I'll eat almost anything you put in front of me as long as it's cooked (sushi, yech) and somewhat edible.

I'm the same way, but more for issues of courtesy than experience with hunger. If someone goes to the bother of preparing it, I will try mightly to eat it with gratitude. In the name of manners, I have gulped down snails, numerous unnamed things from Japan, gefilte fish, and tuna noodle casserole with frozen carrots. Of course, my dinner guests have worse stories.

**Sarah Nerd** · 11-07-2009, 09:45 PM

Huh what? I'm just at this party for the free deli tray.

Brenda Connolly · 11-07-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betty Barracuda

or at least, that's what people should do. I have known so many "vegetarians" who really did not eat properly. The funny thing is... some of them actually didn't eat that many veggies at all. They were more like... friesivores.

Based upon my experiences with people I knew in college in the 90's, I really think half of the vegetarians I knew claimed to be one as a fasion statement, or a faux political effectation having no idea how to eat in a true vegetarian way. There were a couple of exceptions, including one who was macro biotic. Talk about a pain in the ass to go out to dinner with.

Arilynn · 11-07-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah Nerd

Huh what? I'm just at this party for the free deli tray.

I looked for pics of pigs heads on trays for lulz for you, Sarah. But I grossed myself out too much.

11-07-2009, 06:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
Arilynn is chasing her tail Ninja of love Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5,031 SL Join Date: July 3, 2008 Business: Wandering about in a daze. Tabbing out. Blog Entries: 5 Awards: 1	Do you eat meat? Have any qualms about it? I have been wondering about the ethics of eating meat and how others who may have considered this address the issue. To me, there are a multitude of reasons not to eat meat: the suffering of animals, especially on industrial farms; environmental concern ranging from waste management to deforestation; the questionable quality of meat from animals that are routinely dosed with preventative antibiotics and hormones; the health effects of a diet heavy in red meat. The reasons for eating meat are fewer, although perhaps more emotionally compelling (/sidesteps the use of the word "visceral"): meat is a good source of cheap protein; humans are designed to eat meat of some form; and meat is part of most people's beloved dishes and traditions. I've reread parts of Michael Pollan's "The Omnivore's Dilemma", which doesn't really do much for me on this topic. I'll probably read Jonathan Safran Foer's "Eating Animals", but some of the stuff I have read about his arguments leaves me unmoved. I recently watched an HBO documentary about atrocious euthanasia practices on a pig farm, which actually upset me less than the everyday conditions of animals I have read about. On the other hand, on some level I don't buy into the root arguments often made against eating another species, although I was a vegan for years and still rarely eat meat. Have you considered this issue? What conclusions did you reach? [Yikes, I just realized I have blasphemed in close approximation to the House of Bacon. Forgive me, Brother Bart. ]

11-07-2009, 06:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lo Jacobs Kitten Fuzz Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,546 SL Join Date: May 2004 Business: Church of Luxe Blog Entries: 17 Awards: 1	I eat meat and I've toyed for a couple of years now about becoming a vegetarian (I process things slowly). I rarely eat red meat, though I am devoted to various fish and poultry, especially sushi and bagels 'n lox. I had one vegetarian friend who had dreadful eating habits, she would eat nothing all day and then have a cup of echinacea and Emergen-C and a strawberry and wonder why she felt nauseous (I really don't think she cared one bit about the environment or otherwise, it was a conversation starter and she was trying to lose weight, though she liked to pretend that she knew about this crap). I also knew a vegan who was passionate about cooking and was always making interesting things with blenders (I could never be a vegan, though I'm not against vegetarianism. In theory). I think one problem for me as far as vegetarianism goes would be money -- I don't know if it would be affordable for me to do so. I don't have a lot of money at the best of times and I get bored fast if I'm eating the same thing for two or three days. Meat just fills you up nicely and while I've only just gotten around to learning how to cook it, nothing beats a nice tuna melt. One of my next culinary goals is to study and master vegetarian Indian cooking (the fact that Boyfriend detests lentils and was forced to eat them as a child is a big roadblock) so I'm very curious as to how I might be able to cut down my meat consumption to perhaps once or at most twice a week. I think it is just healthier to eat meat only occasionally. __________________ MY STORE//MY BLOG//FLICKR//EMAIL

11-07-2009, 07:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
Joseph Worthington Naked Without A Cause Clothes are Overrated Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 589 My Mood: Fishing Lalala Champion! SL Join Date: 7/23/2006 Business: Slacker and layabout.	I personally have no qualms about eating meat. I do think it's unfortunate the way we have to "produce" our meat, given the large quantity of people who will happily consume it, but as an individual I simply can't bring myself to not eat meat. I see it as a perfectly normal and natural part of life, and simply can't bring myself to feel bad about it. __________________ Do what now?

11-07-2009, 07:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
Nimrod Yaffle Port Obello - The best. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,377 SLShopper Ads: 21 Awards: 1	__________________ Buy my pirate stuff!

11-07-2009, 07:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
Aimee Weber Queen of the Metaverse Edit Status Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,265 My Mood:	I only eat things that kill other lifeforms or cause other lifeforms to die. They have it coming! __________________ "I asked the Ouija Board about the ideomotor effect, but it just told me to f*ck off."

11-07-2009, 07:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
Camille Serpentine Reaming your prims Screwing your scripts Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 579 My Mood: Farm Hustle Champion! Fast Food Fiasco Champion! SL Join Date: October 2003 Blog Entries: 1	You might like the Colin McEnroe show next monday, they are going to do a whole episode on eating animals based on a book of the same name (through wnpr in connecticut). (the book you mentioned.) The friday show had a small segment on it, starting at 43:11 CMS: Exploring Our Rivers \| Connecticut Public Broadcasting Network But monday's show will be a full episode. The little snippet is a talk with a woman who has a farm in connecticut where they grow all their own animals to harvest (plus plants). Originally she was vegetarian because of how animals were treated. It is quite interesting.

11-07-2009, 07:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Har Fairweather Immigrant from Stormwind Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 153	Every day thousands, perhaps millions of protozoans - little, wee animals! - find their way into your body. Tiny, helpless, innocent creatures who did not ask to be brought into your giant, remorseless, unfeeling corpus. Most of them die a horrible, sometimes slow death in an acid bath in your stomach. Those that actually wind up in your blood stream or among your body's cells are set upon by your unfeeling, uncaring, murdering body, which releases vast hordes of immune cells to hunt them down in order to kill them in the most horrifying manner conceivable: They are surrounded, engulfed, and EATEN ALIVE ZOMG!!!! by these immune system cells. You are already a mass murderer millions of times over, just by being alive, and slaughter more helpless living things every day in this horrifying manner. If you didn't, these tiny protozoans would happily eat you alive, or cause you to sicken and die from their poisonous wastes. And you're obsessing over a bit of meat? Wuss. /me wanders off to satisfy a sudden craving for raw, bloody meat in accordance with the laws of nature as developed under Darwinian selection over hundreds of millions of years. Yum.

11-07-2009, 07:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
Kristian stored in the cloud SLU Supporter PHIL LINDEN SKULLFCKED ME RIGHT HERE* Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,866 My Mood: SL Join Date: 2/26/2005	I'm torn between the fact that pigs are very intelligent with the fact that sausage is fucking delicious quite often. Delicious thus far has won out. __________________ Ming's Things http://slurl.com/secondlife/Stargazer/232/232/1501

11-07-2009, 07:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Siggy Now with 40% more Awesome Racin' the griefers Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,038 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 31	I'm top of the food chain... and I fucking LOVE it! __________________ And as it was in the beginning, so too shall it be in the end. That bullshit is bullshit, it just goes by different names.

11-07-2009, 07:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
Phoenix Psaltery Sansarya's Firebird Derailer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Rosebud Posts: 3,986 My Mood: SL Join Date: 02-25-2005 Business: Five59 Graphic Design	I have no problem with being carnivorous. Fuck those Cullen idiots. P2 __________________ Five59 Online Graphic Design Phoenix's Plurk \| Phoenix's Flickr\| Phoenix's Rarely Updated Blog

11-07-2009, 08:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
Persephone Milk Musical Alchemist Mixolydian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,869 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 1 SL Join Date: October 5, 2004 Business: Musical Alchemy	I was a vegetarian for twelve years - for all of the reasons you listed Arilynn, and more. In recent years I have added some meat back, but only in moderation. I don't think that eating meat is wrong, but I do think that eating meat as often as we do, and in the quantity we do today is decadent and foolish. Over the years I educated myself with regard to our food choices and how they impact the environment, the economy, our health, and the welfare of animals. Though I do now enjoy occasional meat, I cannot turn away from the fact that we are killing nearly ten billion animals a year in the United States alone. And for those concerned about the cost of a vegetarian diet, consider for a moment that if the government weren't subsidizing various food industries, eating meat would be many times more expensive than it is today. I do not believe the Earth can ultimately sustain this type of behavior. But hey, I could be wrong __________________ . Musical Alchemy - Fine Musical Instruments by Persephone Milk See me on SLEx, OnRez, My Blog, and at My Store

11-07-2009, 08:22 PM	#16 (permalink)
tygarys Insane Furry Lag Monster Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: in ur gamez, laggin ur simz Posts: 16 My Mood:	I'm a lifetime member of PETA, People Eating Tasty Animals.

11-07-2009, 08:35 PM	#17 (permalink)
Lo Jacobs Kitten Fuzz Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,546 SL Join Date: May 2004 Business: Church of Luxe Blog Entries: 17 Awards: 1	I don't think one can become a vegetarian without needing to get educated about cooking as well. You can't just survive on pasta and rice. __________________ MY STORE//MY BLOG//FLICKR//EMAIL

11-07-2009, 08:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
Imnotgoing Sideways odious little volunteer vicious little nonentity Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Darkly Cute :: Ferguson Posts: 684 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 1 SL Join Date: November, 2007 Business: Darkly Cute	I eat food. I prefer food that tastes good. Beyond that, I couldn't care less where it comes from. (^_^) Try Vietnamese cooking for 10 years, you'll come to the same conclusion. Fishsuauce FTW!!! \(^o^)/ __________________ Somewhere in this world; there is someone having some good clean fun doing the one thing you hate the most. (^_^)y Darkly Cute :: Ferguson :: Glasses, Eyes, Gestures... Goth, Loli, Anime. (^_^)y http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ferguson/54/237/94 http://tinyurl.com/DarklyCute-SLX

11-07-2009, 09:37 PM	#21 (permalink)
Sansarya Koo Koo Kachoo! Feeling Octoberish Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rosebud Posts: 1,516 My Mood: SL Join Date: April 2005 Blog Entries: 2	I know what it is to go hungry. I'll eat almost anything you put in front of me as long as it's cooked (sushi, yech) and somewhat edible. __________________

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