Vertigo Paris

The responsibility lies with the consumer. The companies are just supplying to the demand.

I think trying to lay the blame on the companies is just another way to tell fat people it's not their fault and that's BS. Personal accountability, people.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant Helllllooooo Verti! At last! The chance to rate one of my favorite people! Absolutely beautiful pictures. You are a strong, opinionated woman who is not at all afraid to express herself both verbally and physically. You have a strong sense of fantasy and mystery surrounding a drop dead beauty. You maintain an aloof intelligent exterior that we long to break through, but which might intimidate some men. It shows a complexity of personality that few possess. Based on these pictures, I am giving you an 8.4 on the official Trout Recreant Scale of Slutiness. You are a slut, but only in the best possible way, and any man lucky enough to see that side of you should count his blessings.

Cristiano

Check out this list - some of them are shocking:

Eat This, Not That - The No-Diet Weight Loss Solution From Men's Health

Example:

15. Worst Kids' Meal

Macaroni Grill Double Macaroni 'n' Cheese
1,210 calories
62 g fat
3,450 mg sodium

It's like feeding your kid 1 1/2 boxes of Kraft mac 'n' cheese.

Your Best Option: The 390-calorie Grilled Chicken and Broccoli.

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Sarah Nerd

I would never go for that because I luvz me some bread, but if we start punishing fast food joints for making junk food they would all go under along with ice cream stands, concession stands at fairs, candy stores, ect ect. I think regulation of food suppliers would lead to a slippery slope of control I don't wnt government to have over us. What someone puts in their body is the business and responsibility of that person alone.

I'll be at the fair tomorrow eating some horribly bad for me food like fair fries and funnel cake and lemon shake ups. Just try to stop me!

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Aisuru Rieko

Yeah, I don't want them to legislate junk food away, even if it's terrible for you, theres a choice you make or don't. When they changed the laws regarding the kind of oils and fats they can fry things in I was very sad because whatever most of them use now tastes bitter to me. I miss chicken fingers

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Isabeau Imako

I like the idea of no bread, but the whole thing sounds huge! lol
I'd still try it, though. I'm game.

I worked at McD's when younger (don't judge me ) and we
would get one free meal a shift. I used to often take one or both
of the buns off, especially when eating the breaded fish or chicken.
It just seemed ridiculous to me to eat something breaded INSIDE
bread. It's just too much...

Kind of like spaghetti with a side order of bread.
Or pizza, with bread sticks & dipping sauce.

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Aaachou!

Rema Quandry

I won't address what they've put into this so-called sandwich, yet, but I will point out that they're making themselves look like they're doing something good towards stemming obesity.

Reducing carbs is one strategy for heading off Type II Diabetes . . . and it usually results in a weight loss. In my case, managing carbs has resulted in normal blood sugar (it wasn't always) and a thirty pound weight loss in 6 months. I'm now five pounds less than the weight I was when I married the love of my life.

I know of two other people who had similar results following the same low carb diet strategy. (Actually, it's more like avoiding high carbs at any one meal or snack)

Now, as to what's inside (and out): all I see is salt, salt, salt . . . and fat . . . fat . . . fat. Not good for blood pressure . . . not good for other reasons.

--- Rema

Rema Quandry

There was a time when hamburgers were significantly smaller . . . then along came the Burger King "Whopper" . . . and suddenly bigger was better.

Restaurant portions have followed a similar trend . . . unfortunately.

When I go to a restaurant, I typically eat 1/3 to 1/2 of the meal presented me, and then take the rest home. (This certainly lowers my "cost/meal", since I get multiple meals out of one restaurant "meal")

--- Rema

Cristiano

Doesn't the breading on the chicken offset that effect though? A four ounce piece of fried chicken has about 12 carbs from the batter vs about 23 carbs for a sandwich bun. Since there are two pieces of chicken, the net result seems to be about the same - yet the bun provides dietary fiber that the batter fried chicken doesn't.

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Vertigo Paris

None of which the restaurant's responsibility. The only responsibility they have to the community at large is that food is served in accordance with the laws in their area as far as cleanliness of their business and equipment. (which is a whole other discussion)

I don't think restaurants are making themselves out to be anything. PEOPLE are making the restaurants out to be bad entities.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant Helllllooooo Verti! At last! The chance to rate one of my favorite people! Absolutely beautiful pictures. You are a strong, opinionated woman who is not at all afraid to express herself both verbally and physically. You have a strong sense of fantasy and mystery surrounding a drop dead beauty. You maintain an aloof intelligent exterior that we long to break through, but which might intimidate some men. It shows a complexity of personality that few possess. Based on these pictures, I am giving you an 8.4 on the official Trout Recreant Scale of Slutiness. You are a slut, but only in the best possible way, and any man lucky enough to see that side of you should count his blessings.

JennL

/me orders a double down with a DIET coke

Cristiano

How do you feel about the trans-fat ban in NYC? The Board of Health banned the use of trans-fats in all restaurants.

In New York City, Trans Fat Ban Is Working - Forbes.com

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Vertigo Paris

The same way I feel about the government trying to tell me who and what I can do in my own bed.

I don't need Big Brother telling me what I can and cannot eat, I don't need Big Brother telling me what I can and cannot smoke. I don't need Big Brother telling me what I can and cannot drink.

I am a grown adult, able to make my own decisions and if I am going to do things that are going to harm myself then that is no one else's business (or fault) but mine.

I think the whole mentality of "Let me save you from yourself" is just another step towards waking up one day and civil liberties will be a thing of the past.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant Helllllooooo Verti! At last! The chance to rate one of my favorite people! Absolutely beautiful pictures. You are a strong, opinionated woman who is not at all afraid to express herself both verbally and physically. You have a strong sense of fantasy and mystery surrounding a drop dead beauty. You maintain an aloof intelligent exterior that we long to break through, but which might intimidate some men. It shows a complexity of personality that few possess. Based on these pictures, I am giving you an 8.4 on the official Trout Recreant Scale of Slutiness. You are a slut, but only in the best possible way, and any man lucky enough to see that side of you should count his blessings.

Cristiano

So there should be no regulation at all? Of anything?

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* slu stuff *

Rema Quandry

Yeah, it may be.

For me, what's uncertain here is the amount of carbs in the fried chicken batter (do they list it on their site?). 22-23 is about right for a lot of sandwich bread and buns. It may actually be less for the batter than the 12 carbs you're estimating (unless, of course, their site says otherwise. [I haven't looked yet]).

This "sandwich" is definitely not for me . . . but that's also true for the majority of fast food. I'd rather "spend" my per meal "carb-allotment" on better food.

--- Rema

Rema Quandry

New topic, heh?

Well, there's no doubt in my mind that responsibility lies primarily with the individual. However, when the individual abdicates their responsibility and then subsequently becomes an additional burden to the health "system" we have, it affects more than that one person. Then it's time to go after the providers of the "bad stuff".

Restaurants are motivated by what makes 'em money. They do have a responsibility, though, to not market items that really aren't good for people. Yes? Or do you feel they don't have to be morally responsible for what they offer? And how is that morality determined?

--- Rema

Vertigo Paris

As to what I can take into my body? No. I don't feel that is the government's business.

Regulation to ensure that restaurants, factories, etc are adhering to safety and hygiene issues? Of course, there should be a standard set.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant Helllllooooo Verti! At last! The chance to rate one of my favorite people! Absolutely beautiful pictures. You are a strong, opinionated woman who is not at all afraid to express herself both verbally and physically. You have a strong sense of fantasy and mystery surrounding a drop dead beauty. You maintain an aloof intelligent exterior that we long to break through, but which might intimidate some men. It shows a complexity of personality that few possess. Based on these pictures, I am giving you an 8.4 on the official Trout Recreant Scale of Slutiness. You are a slut, but only in the best possible way, and any man lucky enough to see that side of you should count his blessings.

Cristiano

I don't agree, especially with the trans-fat issue. Restaurants started using trans-fats in things like french fries because it lasted longer so they could save money. It dramatically increases heart disease risk versus using vegetable or other oils, and does not improve the taste. They are not saying "you can't eat French fries" they are telling restaurants (that only care about selling a product) that they can't use this harmful artificial chemical. A lot of times companies will not do the right thing unless forced to.

I hope ultimately the same is applied to high fructose corn syrup.

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Vertigo Paris

I think as long as they report the nutritional value of their food correctly and are not saying "Hey, look at this new grease burger fill with awesome and win! It will make you look like Superman and strong like Popeye!", they have met their responsibility to the people.

Someone would have to live in a cave in order to not know that having a diet full of grease and salt is bad for them. The restaurants should not be the ones to have to babysit.

And spare me the health care system argument cause no matter what, the health care system is going to have to be there for people being stupid or what? We are going to outlaw sports next? What about extreme sports?

Where does it stop?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant Helllllooooo Verti! At last! The chance to rate one of my favorite people! Absolutely beautiful pictures. You are a strong, opinionated woman who is not at all afraid to express herself both verbally and physically. You have a strong sense of fantasy and mystery surrounding a drop dead beauty. You maintain an aloof intelligent exterior that we long to break through, but which might intimidate some men. It shows a complexity of personality that few possess. Based on these pictures, I am giving you an 8.4 on the official Trout Recreant Scale of Slutiness. You are a slut, but only in the best possible way, and any man lucky enough to see that side of you should count his blessings.

Isabeau Imako

Poor little chickens.

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Aaachou!

Vertigo Paris

Okay, I can see your point on the tran-fat issue and the HFCS. You are correct that they will try and save money where they can.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant Helllllooooo Verti! At last! The chance to rate one of my favorite people! Absolutely beautiful pictures. You are a strong, opinionated woman who is not at all afraid to express herself both verbally and physically. You have a strong sense of fantasy and mystery surrounding a drop dead beauty. You maintain an aloof intelligent exterior that we long to break through, but which might intimidate some men. It shows a complexity of personality that few possess. Based on these pictures, I am giving you an 8.4 on the official Trout Recreant Scale of Slutiness. You are a slut, but only in the best possible way, and any man lucky enough to see that side of you should count his blessings.

Rema Quandry

I"m not so sure that's "the way it is".

When one contributes to over-burdening societal support systems, when one contributes to societal ills (e.g., going to work when sick, not getting treatment for TB, etc.), when one takes up the time of service providers that would not have had to be spent if the person had been more responsible, etc., it's time for society to rein in those who think their actions have no consequences for others.

Society--and government--walks a fine line in this country trying to preserve the rights of the individual . . . while trying to safeguard the rights of the many.

The bottom line for me is that we can't just do what we want. We need to accurately assess the impact of our actions on others. And those people who can't do that assessment have to have it done for them (and they may not like that).

What the individual does affects others. We don't live in such a void that we can reasonably say that we should always be able to do "what we want to do".

And an adult's ability to make his or her own decisions doesn't guarantee good decision-making.


--- Rema

Quantum Destiny

KFC...




































CHICKEN KILLERS!!

Rema Quandry

Just because you don't like a particular argument, doesn't mean it hasn't got merit.

Perhaps extreme sports should be outlawed. Haven't thought about that one yet.

And, yes, the health care system does have to be there for people "being stupid" (or just ignorant). For instance, one TB-infested individual or one "stupid" HIV-infested person--not properly treated--can wreak havoc in society.


--- Rema

Phoenix Psaltery

This product is obviously an insidious plot by THESE people:



I think that the question of whether portion sizes should be regulated is a radically different one than the question of "should trans fats be regulated?"

You can't look at a french fry and know what kind of grease it was cooked in. Anybody can look at this Double Down sandwich and see that it would make a wonderful meal...











...for a family of four.

And I wonder how much it cost Doubledown Tandino to get this thing named after him?

P2

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Bard Jameson

Agreed. But does prohibition guarantee it?

I have trouble seeing how a society-wide system could work to both responsibly and fairly prohibit something that doesn't make one acutely ill (unsuspected poison in food, for example), but can have long term deleterious health affects in some.

Leave out trans-fats and the like for a moment. Let's say that every restaurant in the US (not just fast food) is cooking with natural oils and ingredients. It is still recognized that fat-laden and salt-laden diets, among other things, can be unhealthful. So, we look at our growing problem with unhealthy obesity (not just being overweight - real health problems like heart disease, etc), and we can tie it to an unhealthy diet. So the entire restaurant industry is regulated to serve only meals with x calories and y fat and z salt, etc.

So now, not even Mr. Trim and Fit can get a Double-Down sandwich. OK. So let's say that people, being as they are, start making their own unhealthy food at home (the "bathtub gin" of this hypothetical time). The obesity rates don't go down.

Would we then outlaw unhealthy meals at home?

What this argument calls for, IMO, is not substantially different than any prohibition of drink, drugs, etc. And those only "work" by a very narrow and often contradictory definition - usually it is measured by the number of arrests.

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