SLUniverse Forums

Surreal Farber · 10-03-2008, 06:33 PM

I'm trying my hand at making bread in the oldest way, starting with wild yeast.

I caught my yeast a couple of days ago. I mixed some water and flour together and exposed it to the air for a few minutes, then I sealed the container. It's bubbly and has the right beery smell, so time to move on to making the sponge.

The recipe is very wet and isn't kneaded and will be cooked on a sealed pot in the fire.

Cocoanut Koala · 10-03-2008, 06:56 PM

Interesting!

coco

Surreal Farber · 10-03-2008, 07:07 PM

Well you know after the economy collapses and the dollar is worthless, I've got to have some skill to barter.

Cocoanut Koala · 10-03-2008, 07:20 PM

I plan to sell my body.

I figure with twenty tricks a day, I should be able to get a McDonald's Happy Meal!

coco

Trout Recreant · 10-03-2008, 07:44 PM

I'm collecting cigarettes, booze and porn in the crawl space of my house. Vice will be the currency of the new world. As long as I stockpile enough ammo, I should be perfectly safe.

The bread sounds pretty cool, Surreal! Let us know how it turns out.

Surreal Farber · 10-05-2008, 01:08 PM

Well capturing the wild yeast was successful, but the next step of making a minimal-knead sponge was epic fail.

For those who are familiar with the mechanics of bread making, kneading is what causes the gluten strings to fatten up and align, which is what you need for bread. Slow, cool rises give you better texture.

Two possible points of failure: warmth and wetness. Maybe flour too. We had a cool snap so I don't think the temperature stayed above 70 in my kitchen. And I may have used too much water.

Also, I wanted to see if I could make it with all-purpose flour, which means that there may have not been enough gluten to start with.

Oh well, try try again. I'm going to try each change individually and see what the factor or combo of factors was.

Malachi · 10-05-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Two possible points of failure: warmth and wetness. Maybe flour too. We had a cool snap so I don't think the temperature stayed above 70 in my kitchen.

Yeasts are happiest at around 100F, 70F is a bit on the cool side. I keep my house pretty cool and have a "rising" setting on my oven. Failing that, heat the oven briefly on its lowest setting and turn it off, when it is warm (but not hot) to the touch you've got a good incubator.

It is very possible that over a couple of days the yeasts had eaten all the usable carbohydrates and / or poisoned themselves to death with alcohol. If it was lack of food, a small amount (5ml) of honey or sugar is manna to them - indeed, all my starters work with water and sugars with flour added after about 20 minutes of incubation.

I've never tried capturing wild yeast and strongly suspect that packaged yeast has been long selected for hardiness in bread making. I've never had a problem with all-purpose flour - in my experience it makes the best baguettes. I also guess that those who work with native yeasts keep a live starter going for months or years which will, over time, select for greater hardiness.

Happy hunting.

Atia · 10-05-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

Two possible points of failure: warmth and wetness. Maybe flour too. We had a cool snap so I don't think the temperature stayed above 70 in my kitchen. And I may have used too much water.

I use to bake bread every Sunday. There aren't too many things better than bread fresh-baked, warm from the oven, and slathered with butter. Anyway, I think temp could be your problem. I think it needs to be a little warmer for the yeast to make happy.

Trout Recreant · 10-06-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atia

There aren't too many things better than bread fresh-baked, warm from the oven, and slathered with butter.

This is so true. This thread alone has made me want to go bake some bread. I used to do it a lot. I enjoyed the process of baking it as well. It's very relaxing - you have to pay attention, and there is some physical activity. Something about kneading it and watching it rise takes my mind off of whatever is stressing me out.

I've seen gluten for sale in stores. Could you add it to all-purpose flour and resolve the issue Surreal had? I've never played with gluten before.

Roxie Marten · 10-08-2008, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant

This is so true. This thread alone has made me want to go bake some bread. I used to do it a lot. I enjoyed the process of baking it as well. It's very relaxing - you have to pay attention, and there is some physical activity. Something about kneading it and watching it rise takes my mind off of whatever is stressing me out.

I've seen gluten for sale in stores. Could you add it to all-purpose flour and resolve the issue Surreal had? I've never played with gluten before.

I enjoy bread baking as well. Never tried using wild yeast.
Please keep us updated on how this works out.

There is emotional satisfaction in knowing you can create what
most people consider a staple of life. Like being able to start
a fire with flint and steel.

Rox

CoyoteMomiji · 10-08-2008, 03:33 AM

I miss baking. There's no point when your roomie is allergic to gluten.

(and dairy and soy and melons and chocolate and...)

Ramonna Villota · 10-08-2008, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoyoteMomiji

I miss baking. There's no point when your roomie is allergic to gluten.

(and dairy and soy and melons and chocolate and...)

OMG

what do you eat?

CoyoteMomiji · 10-08-2008, 03:46 AM

I can still eat nearly everything. She... well, it's interesting to find things she can eat!

Ramonna Villota · 10-08-2008, 03:49 AM

I married a vegetarian I thought that was bad…. No gravies and no meat but no dairy (crème, chesse,milk, ice cream) Breadsssssssssss oh love that is brutal

Rose Alba Karuna · 11-06-2008, 11:43 AM

Surreal - I'd try adding a teaspoon or two of either orange or pineapple juice to the flour and water mixture. This will help keep the acidity up a bit. When you mix flour and water together, you end up with a mixture that is close to neutral in pH, and yeasties need it a bit more on the acid side.

This is why I recommend using the acidic fruit juice. There are other microbes in the flour that prefer a more neutral pH, and so they are the first to wake up and grow. Some will produce acids as by-products. That lowers the pH to the point that they can no longer grow, until the environment is just right for wild yeast to activate.

I'd also store the little devils in a crock type jar if possible. It tends to keep the temperature more stable. Cooler temperatures 55 - 70 degrees really should not matter that much once you have the yeasties growing (I keep mine in the fridge).

Happy baking! Sourdough bread is my absolute favorite!

JenK · 11-06-2008, 11:53 AM

Good luck, Surreal! I chronicled my own wild sourdough bread making over on secondsurvivor in this thread. Your version sounds very interesting. I am reading avidly.

Surreal Farber · 11-06-2008, 12:33 PM

Catching and using the wild yeast was successful. I have a batch of starter happily living in my refrigerator.

What I'm looking for now is a no-knead, slow-rise recipe that gives good results. I've tried a couple so far and haven't been happy with the results. The final dough should be wet & soft, but still able to be handled. I will want to bake it in my Le Creuset dutch oven at around 450 degrees F.

I think I'm going to postpone further experimentation until the warm weather returns. My kitchen is just too cool and since I'm looking at a 10-12 hour rise, I don't want to turn my oven on.

Also, I've got other Fall food activities going on which are time dependent. My dehydrator is running almost nonstop, and I'm contemplating making a small batch of chunky applesauce and canning it this weekend.

Cranberry season is coming!!

Trout Recreant · 11-06-2008, 02:14 PM

Can I move into your house?

Vertigo Paris · 11-06-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout Recreant

Can I move into your house?

I will sew for food.

Rose Alba Karuna · 11-06-2008, 02:28 PM

Here is my Sourdough recipe:

1 cup fully active sourdough culture (wild yeast)
440 grams (3 cups) all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting
About 1 cup water with 1 Tsp of real maple syrup in it
1½ teaspoons salt

In a large bowl briefly combine sourdough culture, flour, water and salt. The consistency should be very firm and rough surfaced/shaggy (add the water slowly, in some cases it may take less than 1 cup).

Cover bowl with plastic wrap and raise 12-18 hours at about 70° F. At 70-75 degrees the bread leavens well and has the distinct sourness and flavor of sourdough. At more than 75 degrees the dough becomes too acidic which inhibits the wild yeast and leavens poorly. At much less than 70 degrees the dough leavens well but has a mild flavor. (I'd simply put it in my cold oven because that insulates it and if the room gets colder than 70, the oven usually dosen't). Then again, I live in South Florida where anything under 70 degrees is unusual, if anything, I have a problem with it getting too warm.

After the 12-18 hour fermentation the dough is very sticky. Ease it away from the edges of the bowl onto a lightly floured board (you can combine corn meal and flour). Sprinkle the surface with additional flour and let the dough rest 15 minutes or so.

With minimal handling and additional flour (not more than ¼ cup) form a ball and place it directly in a greased (I use Crisco) dutch oven to rise until it has doubled in bulk (about 4 hours).

To get better some rise in the oven, place the risen dough in its container in a cool oven, set the oven at 450°, turn it on and bake for approximately 1 hour and 10 minutes.

Edited to add that the maple syrup gives it a distinct flavor and scent that is heavenly.

Produces one 1½ lb of yummy round bread

Surreal Farber · 11-06-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose Alba Karuna

Here is my Sourdough recipe:

1 cup fully active sourdough culture (wild yeast)
440 grams (3 cups) all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting
About 1 cup water with 1 Tsp of real maple syrup in it
1½ teaspoons salt

In a large bowl briefly combine sourdough culture, flour, water and salt. The consistency should be very firm and rough surfaced/shaggy (add the water slowly, in some cases it may take less than 1 cup).

Cover bowl with plastic wrap and raise 12-18 hours at about 70° F. At 70-75 degrees the bread leavens well and has the distinct sourness and flavor of sourdough. At more than 75 degrees the dough becomes too acidic which inhibits the wild yeast and leavens poorly. At much less than 70 degrees the dough leavens well but has a mild flavor. (I'd simply put it in my cold oven because that insulates it and if the room gets colder than 70, the oven usually dosen't). Then again, I live in South Florida where anything under 70 degrees is unusual, if anything, I have a problem with it getting too warm.

After the 12-18 hour fermentation the dough is very sticky. Ease it away from the edges of the bowl onto a lightly floured board (you can combine corn meal and flour). Sprinkle the surface with additional flour and let the dough rest 15 minutes or so.

With minimal handling and additional flour (not more than ¼ cup) form a ball and place it directly in a greased (I use Crisco) dutch oven to rise until it has doubled in bulk (about 4 hours).

To get better some rise in the oven, place the risen dough in its container in a cool oven, set the oven at 450°, turn it on and bake for approximately 1 hour and 10 minutes.

Edited to add that the maple syrup gives it a distinct flavor and scent that is heavenly.

Produces one 1½ lb of yummy round bread

10-03-2008, 06:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
Surreal Farber Treacherous BiSexual Doesn't Suffer Fools Gladly Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,332 SLShopper Ads: 6 My Mood:	Stalking the wild yeast I'm trying my hand at making bread in the oldest way, starting with wild yeast. I caught my yeast a couple of days ago. I mixed some water and flour together and exposed it to the air for a few minutes, then I sealed the container. It's bubbly and has the right beery smell, so time to move on to making the sponge. The recipe is very wet and isn't kneaded and will be cooked on a sealed pot in the fire.

10-03-2008, 06:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cocoanut Koala Coco's Cottages There is no sanctuary. You may think there is, but there is not. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,398 Business: Coco's Cottages SLShopper Ads: 3 Awards: 1	Interesting! coco __________________ Newest Addition: Freebie of the Month! 'Lil Cottage Series #8 ARABIAN NIGHTS by Shagz Anubis Pick yours up at Coco's Cottages! Rosieri 87,165,88 http://www.sluniverse.com/php/shop/s...p?product=4862

10-08-2008, 03:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
CoyoteMomiji is oh-so-Slick I stopped the signal. Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,679 SL Join Date: 01/26/06 Business: Slick SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	I miss baking. There's no point when your roomie is allergic to gluten. (and dairy and soy and melons and chocolate and...) __________________ Slick in Mikianna Slick Blog Recidivist Sideways: YOU'LL TAKE MY ROUGH, BUTTERY FRIENDSHIP, AND YOU'LL LIKE IT

11-06-2008, 11:53 AM	#16 (permalink)
JenK Suspected Person Zzzzzz...snork Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pacific NW, USA Posts: 1,029 My Mood:	Good luck, Surreal! I chronicled my own wild sourdough bread making over on secondsurvivor in this thread. Your version sounds very interesting. I am reading avidly. __________________ "All sorrows are less with bread." ~Miguel de Cervantes, Don Quixote

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10-03-2008, 07:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
Surreal Farber Treacherous BiSexual Doesn't Suffer Fools Gladly Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,332 SLShopper Ads: 6 My Mood:	Well you know after the economy collapses and the dollar is worthless, I've got to have some skill to barter.

10-03-2008, 07:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cocoanut Koala Coco's Cottages There is no sanctuary. You may think there is, but there is not. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,398 Business: Coco's Cottages SLShopper Ads: 3 Awards: 1	I plan to sell my body. I figure with twenty tricks a day, I should be able to get a McDonald's Happy Meal! coco

10-03-2008, 07:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
Trout Recreant Senior Member Caution - makes wide turns Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 2,331 My Mood:	I'm collecting cigarettes, booze and porn in the crawl space of my house. Vice will be the currency of the new world. As long as I stockpile enough ammo, I should be perfectly safe. The bread sounds pretty cool, Surreal! Let us know how it turns out.

10-05-2008, 01:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
Surreal Farber Treacherous BiSexual Doesn't Suffer Fools Gladly Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,332 SLShopper Ads: 6 My Mood:	Well capturing the wild yeast was successful, but the next step of making a minimal-knead sponge was epic fail. For those who are familiar with the mechanics of bread making, kneading is what causes the gluten strings to fatten up and align, which is what you need for bread. Slow, cool rises give you better texture. Two possible points of failure: warmth and wetness. Maybe flour too. We had a cool snap so I don't think the temperature stayed above 70 in my kitchen. And I may have used too much water. Also, I wanted to see if I could make it with all-purpose flour, which means that there may have not been enough gluten to start with. Oh well, try try again. I'm going to try each change individually and see what the factor or combo of factors was.

10-08-2008, 03:46 AM	#13 (permalink)
CoyoteMomiji is oh-so-Slick I stopped the signal. Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,679 SL Join Date: 01/26/06 Business: Slick SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	I can still eat nearly everything. She... well, it's interesting to find things she can eat!

10-08-2008, 03:49 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ramonna Villota Senior Member Helvetti Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Iceland - Kansas Posts: 2,859 SL Join Date: 3/6/06 My Mood:	I married a vegetarian I thought that was bad…. No gravies and no meat but no dairy (crème, chesse,milk, ice cream) Breadsssssssssss oh love that is brutal

11-06-2008, 12:33 PM	#17 (permalink)
Surreal Farber Treacherous BiSexual Doesn't Suffer Fools Gladly Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,332 SLShopper Ads: 6 My Mood:	Catching and using the wild yeast was successful. I have a batch of starter happily living in my refrigerator. What I'm looking for now is a no-knead, slow-rise recipe that gives good results. I've tried a couple so far and haven't been happy with the results. The final dough should be wet & soft, but still able to be handled. I will want to bake it in my Le Creuset dutch oven at around 450 degrees F. I think I'm going to postpone further experimentation until the warm weather returns. My kitchen is just too cool and since I'm looking at a 10-12 hour rise, I don't want to turn my oven on. Also, I've got other Fall food activities going on which are time dependent. My dehydrator is running almost nonstop, and I'm contemplating making a small batch of chunky applesauce and canning it this weekend. Cranberry season is coming!!

11-06-2008, 02:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
Trout Recreant Senior Member Caution - makes wide turns Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 2,331 My Mood:	Can I move into your house?

11-06-2008, 02:28 PM	#20 (permalink)
Rose Alba Karuna Evil Rose Just Plain Evil Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Floriduh Posts: 325 Business: Flowers, Trees and Animals My Mood:	Here is my Sourdough recipe: 1 cup fully active sourdough culture (wild yeast) 440 grams (3 cups) all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting About 1 cup water with 1 Tsp of real maple syrup in it 1½ teaspoons salt In a large bowl briefly combine sourdough culture, flour, water and salt. The consistency should be very firm and rough surfaced/shaggy (add the water slowly, in some cases it may take less than 1 cup). Cover bowl with plastic wrap and raise 12-18 hours at about 70° F. At 70-75 degrees the bread leavens well and has the distinct sourness and flavor of sourdough. At more than 75 degrees the dough becomes too acidic which inhibits the wild yeast and leavens poorly. At much less than 70 degrees the dough leavens well but has a mild flavor. (I'd simply put it in my cold oven because that insulates it and if the room gets colder than 70, the oven usually dosen't). Then again, I live in South Florida where anything under 70 degrees is unusual, if anything, I have a problem with it getting too warm. After the 12-18 hour fermentation the dough is very sticky. Ease it away from the edges of the bowl onto a lightly floured board (you can combine corn meal and flour). Sprinkle the surface with additional flour and let the dough rest 15 minutes or so. With minimal handling and additional flour (not more than ¼ cup) form a ball and place it directly in a greased (I use Crisco) dutch oven to rise until it has doubled in bulk (about 4 hours). To get better some rise in the oven, place the risen dough in its container in a cool oven, set the oven at 450°, turn it on and bake for approximately 1 hour and 10 minutes. Edited to add that the maple syrup gives it a distinct flavor and scent that is heavenly. Produces one 1½ lb of yummy round bread