SLUniverse Forums

Ned Easterwood · 09-29-2008, 07:00 AM

The past couple of weeks I have looked at a lot - probably 18 or 20 - freebie male shapes - some gawd-awful,others not to my taste.
I have had some luck in creating shapes - Bea's is a customized version of the old "Nightclub Female" default.

With those things in mind, I have thought I might fool around with shape creation, but I haven't got the foggiest idea of where to begin. I assume there's a piece in the SL wiki - I haven't looked yet - but I thought I would post here, too, because there are so many knowledgeable folks here (/me bows towards Beebo. Colette, and anybody wlse doing this stuff.)
Can I rez a shape without wearing it? (I haven't even gone in world since I thought of this.) Are there some helpful tools I might acquire? Any advice you might give?

Thanks.

Lucifer Baphomet · 09-29-2008, 07:03 AM

Aodhan McDunnough · 09-29-2008, 07:05 AM

I suggest getting a photo of a shape you want and either hold it up to the monitor while you're working or upload it in-world so you can place it on a prim.

One thing though, the appearance editor makes avs appear WIDER than they actually are, so there will be some trial and error unless you're butted up against the pic.

As a matter of fact I adjusted my shape yesterday, was still too muscular. Few will notice the difference but I'm happy with the shape now.

Lucifer Baphomet · 09-29-2008, 07:07 AM

do things in small increments especially on the face.

Karl Herber · 09-29-2008, 07:11 AM

You can't rez a shape without wearing it. (Make sure you copy a shape before messing with it, in case it goes horribly wrong)

Really, all there is to it is messing with the sliders, and it makes no difference what the shape is that you begin from. Mine started with the default male shape that I started the game with, and I just tweaked the sliders until I got something I liked. If I change skins, I find that the sliders in the face need to be altered slightly to suit the new skin (which I guess is why most good skins come with a shape included).

Most of the freebie shapes I've seen are far to heavy on the muscles, too broad in the shoulder and with a teeny-tiny head on a big broad neck. I think they've been created by people with severe body dysmorphia.

Here's an idea. Try starting with every single slider set at 50, and work from that as a starting point. (except feet, which you don't want to be above 30 otherwise you'll never get a pair of prim shoes that fit).

Beebo Brink · 09-29-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Herber

Here's an idea. Try starting with every single slider set at 50, and work from that as a starting point. (except feet, which you don't want to be above 30 otherwise you'll never get a pair of prim shoes that fit).

Uh, don't do that.

Maybe half the sliders, mostly for body and torso, will be decent at 50, but that value won't work for all the head & face sliders.

Your current shape is a fine starting point. I presume you selected that particular default because it appealed to you, so all you have to do now is keep what you like best and adjust the parts you're not so fond of.

Bear in mind that there is a very strong inter-relation between skin and shape. Rough in your shape, but don't try to finish the fine face details until you've settled on a skin you like. Be sure to try demos of a skin first, and take the demo out for a spin in different lighting situations.

Jerboa Haystack · 09-29-2008, 08:41 AM

I'm pretty happy with the shape I ended up with. I started with the shape that came with my skin, and then started tweaking a few sliders to fix a few things. Like the waist was too tiny, added a bit more love handles, a bit fewer muscles, etc.

I still have a little work to do on the face, but it's pretty close.

You might try that. Start with a shape that is close to what you want to look like, and then tweak. I've found that tiny changes in the sliders can produce pretty dramatic results.

bilbo99 emu · 09-29-2008, 08:54 AM

It can be a quandary at times whether to start with the shape or start with the skin. Some skins I've found really project a certain shape and anything else will look grim. I will often 'save as' a number of variations of a shape per skin. A few, small changes at a time .. and take your time. Rush and it'll be a mess.

Vertigo Paris · 09-29-2008, 09:02 AM

I have about 20 different shapes saved up and tagged to go with certain skins. My default shape and skin took 2 years to get right and I am still tweaking it now and again. (Ever since Siyu told me my head was too small!

)

But yeah, always, always save as on the shape. I took Sean's advice and even wrote everything down outside of SL. Just in case.

Aodhan McDunnough · 09-29-2008, 09:16 AM

With regard to skin vs shape:

1. If you're working from a lot of photos that can show the head at most angles, then you can make an accurate head shape with an ordinary skin (like the defaults). That's because you can discern the exact contour by cross-referencing the photos. Under no cirumstances should you do this with a flat color. Your aim will go off.

2. If you have only one photo to work with (e.g. front) then you have to make a skin from that photo first. Quality is not that important at this stage. What you need are the key facial features placed properly on the mesh. After uploading, you can perform slider adjustments.

Since I had a good idea about the shape of the head I wanted, it was a simple matter to make the shape first. My head sliders have only changed very slightly since my first weeks in SL. The skin made the difference.

Ran Garrigus · 09-29-2008, 03:37 PM

Ned,

Grab this from SLX, created by Vaelissa Cortes. She includes a useful tool for testing proportions and, more importantly, a notecard giving a rough guide to the sort of proportions you should be paying attention to when creating your shape. You won't go far wrong if you pay attention to her tips there.

Sean Gorham · 09-29-2008, 05:22 PM

Proportions of the Figure for Drawing: Figure Drawing LAB is a good place to start on body proportions. It doesn't translate exactly to SL, but it helps a lot. I usually work on the head/face first, then make a head-sized prim reference and build the shape in proportions described at the website.

Many sliders are interdependent, especially with regard to height/length sliders. Also, don't be afraid to put on some body fat and body thickness. They help a LOT in making more realistic shapes. On the flip side, they often making fitting prim shoes/clothes a total pain in the butt. Experiment!

Ann Launay · 09-29-2008, 05:52 PM

Ann's head is too small and I don't care!

io Kukulcan · 09-29-2008, 06:19 PM

make sure your hands can reach your junk.

i see so many avatars, male and female, with short, little arms.

and don't go for the uber-V-taper, with huge broad shoulders, and teeny tiny hips, not even Michael Phelps has that much taper.

Ned Easterwood · 09-29-2008, 07:15 PM

Thanks all for these tips.

It may be that I decide to stick with the default "Boy Next Door" shape I have been using - it's pretty good.
The kind of shapes Io mentioned are the ones I picked up for free and went "Yikes" when I tired them. That was followed by a quick return to the old shape and the new one being deleted.

Miriel Enfield · 09-29-2008, 11:15 PM

I have a crude setup that I use for making shapes: a posing stand that puts me in a neutralish position, with a big box behind it, textured in a grid. I fiddle with the offsets so that the grid is one head high and one head wide, and then work using it as a guide.

Shiva Shiskabob · 09-30-2008, 01:27 AM

i was lucky with mine. still don' know how i got the guy mesh to go that small an' that skinny, but there it goes. jus' luck of th'draw, i suppose.

Aodhan McDunnough · 09-30-2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by io Kukulcan

and don't go for the uber-V-taper, with huge broad shoulders, and teeny tiny hips, not even Michael Phelps has that much taper.

Bodybuilders do have that taper. But when guys are making their avatars they forget that the taper happens ONLY when they're flexing. They overlook the fact that bodybuilder proportions change drastically and look a bit more ordinary when they aren't flexing.

Ned Easterwood · 09-30-2008, 06:29 AM

Why everyone wants to look like a bodybuilder is beyond me. Doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Aodhan McDunnough · 09-30-2008, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Easterwood

Why everyone wants to look like a bodybuilder is beyond me. Doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Guys generally want to look buff, I do too. But what I can't get is why they'd go to that level (i.e. freakzoid bodybuilder) when the women I know in SL all go "YUCK!" and prefer either slim figures or something like my "bloke-bulky" which still looks very natural. They don't seem to get it that women can see it's just sliders and that women don't get impressed by that.

I'm guessing it's a pretty damned high level of insecurity (physically and otherwise).

I guess another possibility is simply a total lack of sense of proportion.

Ned Easterwood · 09-30-2008, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aodhan McDunnough

Guys generally want to look buff, I do too. But what I can't get is why they'd go to that level (i.e. freakzoid bodybuilder) when the women I know in SL all go "YUCK!" and prefer either slim figures or something like my "bloke-bulky" which still looks very natural. They don't seem to get it that women can see it's just sliders and that women don't get impressed by that.

I'm guessing it's a pretty damned high level of insecurity (physically and otherwise).

09-29-2008, 07:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ned Easterwood Senior Member Mereille's Guy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Detroit, Mi. Posts: 9,538 SL Join Date: 5/4/2007 My Mood:	Shape creation The past couple of weeks I have looked at a lot - probably 18 or 20 - freebie male shapes - some gawd-awful,others not to my taste. I have had some luck in creating shapes - Bea's is a customized version of the old "Nightclub Female" default. With those things in mind, I have thought I might fool around with shape creation, but I haven't got the foggiest idea of where to begin. I assume there's a piece in the SL wiki - I haven't looked yet - but I thought I would post here, too, because there are so many knowledgeable folks here (/me bows towards Beebo. Colette, and anybody wlse doing this stuff.) Can I rez a shape without wearing it? (I haven't even gone in world since I thought of this.) Are there some helpful tools I might acquire? Any advice you might give? Thanks. __________________ Ned Take 'er easy for all the sinners of the world, dude. Abide. And amen. http://www.dudeism.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Claymore of Loving Kindness Unitarian Jihad

09-29-2008, 07:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
Lucifer Baphomet Pampers Io Zenophile Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 6,611 Business: Radio Free Darkmere	__________________

09-29-2008, 07:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
Aodhan McDunnough exp(ln(Gearhead)) lim as x->0 of Geek/x Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 3,732 Beer Tapper Gone Wild Champion! SL Join Date: March 28, 2006 Business: Aodhan's Forge SLShopper Ads: 2 My Mood:	I suggest getting a photo of a shape you want and either hold it up to the monitor while you're working or upload it in-world so you can place it on a prim. One thing though, the appearance editor makes avs appear WIDER than they actually are, so there will be some trial and error unless you're butted up against the pic. As a matter of fact I adjusted my shape yesterday, was still too muscular. Few will notice the difference but I'm happy with the shape now. __________________ We can't get rid of Landbots but we can stop the damage. VOTE this proposal on the Jira. Current votes: 71 http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2905 Kontours Classic 1-prim chair. Sculpted, menu controlled http://www.sluniverse.com/php/shop/s...ct=786&cat=500

09-29-2008, 07:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
Karl Herber Beachcomber Blue Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 370 Blog Entries: 1 My Mood:	You can't rez a shape without wearing it. (Make sure you copy a shape before messing with it, in case it goes horribly wrong) Really, all there is to it is messing with the sliders, and it makes no difference what the shape is that you begin from. Mine started with the default male shape that I started the game with, and I just tweaked the sliders until I got something I liked. If I change skins, I find that the sliders in the face need to be altered slightly to suit the new skin (which I guess is why most good skins come with a shape included). Most of the freebie shapes I've seen are far to heavy on the muscles, too broad in the shoulder and with a teeny-tiny head on a big broad neck. I think they've been created by people with severe body dysmorphia. Here's an idea. Try starting with every single slider set at 50, and work from that as a starting point. (except feet, which you don't want to be above 30 otherwise you'll never get a pair of prim shoes that fit). __________________ Horse Tales - and - Free For Men

09-29-2008, 08:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
bilbo99 emu Senior Member Status quo Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Wilts UK Posts: 636 My Mood:	It can be a quandary at times whether to start with the shape or start with the skin. Some skins I've found really project a certain shape and anything else will look grim. I will often 'save as' a number of variations of a shape per skin. A few, small changes at a time .. and take your time. Rush and it'll be a mess. __________________ "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas Adams

09-29-2008, 07:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
Lucifer Baphomet Pampers Io Zenophile Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 6,611 Business: Radio Free Darkmere	do things in small increments especially on the face.

09-29-2008, 08:41 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jerboa Haystack Senior Member The ears make the jerboa! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,293 My Mood:	I'm pretty happy with the shape I ended up with. I started with the shape that came with my skin, and then started tweaking a few sliders to fix a few things. Like the waist was too tiny, added a bit more love handles, a bit fewer muscles, etc. I still have a little work to do on the face, but it's pretty close. You might try that. Start with a shape that is close to what you want to look like, and then tweak. I've found that tiny changes in the sliders can produce pretty dramatic results.

09-29-2008, 09:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
Aodhan McDunnough exp(ln(Gearhead)) lim as x->0 of Geek/x Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 3,732 Beer Tapper Gone Wild Champion! SL Join Date: March 28, 2006 Business: Aodhan's Forge SLShopper Ads: 2 My Mood:	With regard to skin vs shape: 1. If you're working from a lot of photos that can show the head at most angles, then you can make an accurate head shape with an ordinary skin (like the defaults). That's because you can discern the exact contour by cross-referencing the photos. Under no cirumstances should you do this with a flat color. Your aim will go off. 2. If you have only one photo to work with (e.g. front) then you have to make a skin from that photo first. Quality is not that important at this stage. What you need are the key facial features placed properly on the mesh. After uploading, you can perform slider adjustments. Since I had a good idea about the shape of the head I wanted, it was a simple matter to make the shape first. My head sliders have only changed very slightly since my first weeks in SL. The skin made the difference.

09-29-2008, 03:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ran Garrigus Weirdo in a Weird Land Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 220	Ned, Grab this from SLX, created by Vaelissa Cortes. She includes a useful tool for testing proportions and, more importantly, a notecard giving a rough guide to the sort of proportions you should be paying attention to when creating your shape. You won't go far wrong if you pay attention to her tips there. __________________ Old Fashioned -- Occasional SL fashion reviews.

09-29-2008, 05:22 PM	#12 (permalink)
Sean Gorham Verti's Minion Burning Down the House Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 503 SL Join Date: March 5, 2005 Business: CGBG - Cool Gear by Gorham SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood:	Proportions of the Figure for Drawing: Figure Drawing LAB is a good place to start on body proportions. It doesn't translate exactly to SL, but it helps a lot. I usually work on the head/face first, then make a head-sized prim reference and build the shape in proportions described at the website. Many sliders are interdependent, especially with regard to height/length sliders. Also, don't be afraid to put on some body fat and body thickness. They help a LOT in making more realistic shapes. On the flip side, they often making fitting prim shoes/clothes a total pain in the butt. Experiment!

09-29-2008, 06:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
io Kukulcan Senior Member copa cabana Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 924 My Mood:	make sure your hands can reach your junk. i see so many avatars, male and female, with short, little arms. and don't go for the uber-V-taper, with huge broad shoulders, and teeny tiny hips, not even Michael Phelps has that much taper.

09-29-2008, 07:15 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ned Easterwood Senior Member Mereille's Guy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Detroit, Mi. Posts: 9,538 SL Join Date: 5/4/2007 My Mood:	Thanks all for these tips. It may be that I decide to stick with the default "Boy Next Door" shape I have been using - it's pretty good. The kind of shapes Io mentioned are the ones I picked up for free and went "Yikes" when I tired them. That was followed by a quick return to the old shape and the new one being deleted.

09-29-2008, 11:15 PM	#16 (permalink)
Miriel Enfield Mad Artist Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,083 Business: Miriel SLShopper Ads: 2	I have a crude setup that I use for making shapes: a posing stand that puts me in a neutralish position, with a big box behind it, textured in a grid. I fiddle with the offsets so that the grid is one head high and one head wide, and then work using it as a guide. __________________ Miriel: Jewelry, eyes, shapes, and a couple of hairstyles. Oh, and a pretty forest. And a treasure hunt. 3.5 on the Internationally Recognized Trout Recreant Scale of Slutwatoosi. "Blender is the Pai Mae of 3d programs. It hates newbies, despises windows users, and has nothing but contempt for English speakers. It will let you learn, but mostly because doing so will give Blender a chance to amuse itself by making you suffer." - Twenty Sided

09-30-2008, 01:27 AM	#17 (permalink)
Shiva Shiskabob Semi-Demi God Bluuuuuuuue Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 826 Beat the Cheese Champion! Apprentice : Dairy Queen Champion! SL Join Date: 03/08/08 My Mood:	i was lucky with mine. still don' know how i got the guy mesh to go that small an' that skinny, but there it goes. jus' luck of th'draw, i suppose. __________________ Panic! Paaaanic! Is Himushet Anatra inworld. Minus th'pickles.

09-30-2008, 06:29 AM	#19 (permalink)
Ned Easterwood Senior Member Mereille's Guy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Detroit, Mi. Posts: 9,538 SL Join Date: 5/4/2007 My Mood:	Why everyone wants to look like a bodybuilder is beyond me. Doesn't interest me in the slightest.