NeoBokrug Elytis

Article: Let the games begin: Gambling returns, lag free and (somewhat) Linden$ free



I really don't understand their explanation of the loophole. After reading this all I see is L$ -> Z$ -> L$. You can't really claim it has no value when you apply a Linden Value to it. If you're able to redeem a single linden from it, it has a value.

Basically it runs down like this:

• You buy a Z$ for a L$
• You play games of chance with your Z$ and your Z$ balance increases or decreases. But you can't cash out on those games of chance.
• Then you play a skill based game with an L$, and you can win your Z$ balance back.

Skill based game could easily be, push this button within 24 hours.

I really don't believe that. I hope it gets shut down yesterday.

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armozel

*waves hand* These are not the gambling nodes you are looking for...

MaxDesoto

It's already here, "Bicky Beans" are being used for gambling. The only thing is, you can't buy them... you can camp for them, pick them off the bean tree, or you get beans when you buy items from the mall. That must be the loophole, that there is no L$ to beans conversion, although they do allow you to cash out beans to L$.

Aargle Zymurgy

It always helps to attend Linden meetings. The question of the Zorkmid system legality came up today at the governance team meeting today. TOS prevents me from quoting the chat (even though it was public) but the gist of it was:

Q: Are the $Z (instead of L$) casinos legal?
A: Yes, the system we've seen is legal.
Q: So its like the return of casinos, but legal?
A: That's exactly right, it's legal.

Sorry people don't like games of chance, but why it matters so badly to prevent others from doing it eludes me. Why does it matter to non-participants?

Sansarya

It doesn't matter to me, I don't care if people gamble. The Zorkmid system is something I like only because the creators are scripters who worked really hard to make sure their systems were as lag free as possible, which was really my ONLY complaint with the old gambling (sim crashing lag, and the casino games were everywhere--in stores, on the neighbor's land, in clubs, etc.)

edit: heh, oh Hi Argyle Didn't realize that was you posting. Thanks for making almost lag-free casino games

FlipperPA Peregrine

Ummm... that shows your understanding of the ToS. It is not illegal to post chat logs - Lindens post their office hours all the time. It is only illegal to post chat logs or IM conversations on the SL forums. I highly doubt the conversation you posted ever occurred. At least tell us who the Linden was and when their office hours were, and I'll confirm with them.

Regards,

-Flip

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Joshua Nightshade

Bullshit.

Once again, the Lindens do not, will not, and have never, ever, ever ruled on the legality of a system.

Stop pushing this lie.

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Khamon

Khamon Fate: Can I have god powers for a couple of days please
Olympic Linden: Sure, no prob, it'll take a few minutes to update your account
Khamon Fate: Gee Thanks1 I promise to use it wisely and discreetly
Olympic Linden: Don't worry about it; we do this for our very best friends all the time
Olympic Linden: In fact, we'll probably forget to ever turn it off so just enjoy!

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Aargle Zymurgy

Help yourself. Governance team meeting, 10AM SLT 2008-08-13, Zara Linden and Kaylee Linden directing the meeting. There were only a couple regulars at the meeting, plus a handful of irregulars and first-timers.

P.S. I'm not here much. Does Joshua Nightshade only contribute profanity to these forums?

Aargle Zymurgy

You're welcome, m'dear. I've always enjoyed creating things. It's just that much better when it's something others can enjoy as much.

Joshua Nightshade

When dealing with lying scammers, yeah.

Go fuck yourself, thanks!

Macphisto Angelus

/me settles in for the next Central Grid epic size thread.

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Colette Meiji

I have to agree with Josh.

The Lindens never say whether something is legal.

Once in a while they might say something is allowed.

But they are always careful about using the term "legal" ever. Since LL doesn't decide the law.

I am not sure this Zymurgy person gets the distinction.

Joshua Nightshade

They've never said something is allowed either.

I knew someone who bent over backwards to try and get a Linden, the one responsible for the blog post about the ban, to come and look at his system and say whether or not it was against the rules. Bent over backwards, invited him over, sent him a copy, the Linden wouldn't teleport or accept the item, said he wouldn't render whether or not something was within their guidelines until after it was AR'd, and even then he would only find out arbitrarily. This was the policy maker, the head of the department, who said no, I won't render the legality or acceptability of any system in SL.

At best Z-Fuck got some random CSR liaison who works out of their house for minimum wage with LL to say "Oh yeah, this is fine!" but nobody who decided policy said so, and sooner or later Arbitrary Linden will delete his shit. Which serves him right for skirting semantics to advertise his systems.

At worst, this is all a complete lie, and you should be ass fucked with a cactus and then get your shit deleted.

And good riddance, because I don't care about gambling, I care about scammy fucks that ruin sims with their shit. Any sort of updating system is going to lag, it's NOT POSSIBLE to make a game in SL and say "Look, we're low-lag!" Coupled with the pathetic behavior that seems to attract people to that sort of income-gatherer and it's a recipe for mouth breathers.

Gigs

Zara Linden's profile:

I'm with Joshua. Stop spreading lies.

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Joshua Nightshade

Hi mister gambling guy,

You left your lolcat at my place last night. Thanks!

Joshua Nightshade

[#MISC-1428] Request for clarification on whether L$ substitutes still violate Linden Lab ban on gambling in SL - Second Life Issues

Already at 50+ votes.

Brenda Connolly

Oh Heavens No! That is only a small part of his charm.

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Scopophobia is a fear of being looked at.
Phobophobia is a fear of fearing.

"We have nothing to fear, but fear itself"
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Colette Meiji

Ahh. I was speaking in more general terms. They have occasionally said this is allowed, or that is allowed over the years.

Such as banking. Not so much specific things, more categories.


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I have read transcripts of Zara Linden saying a gambling device is okay. It seems rather arbitrary.

But as you mentioned not a policy making Linden. I have no clue who Zara is, something to do with gambling enforcement.

Macphisto Angelus

Now don't go straight for the pwnage yet. I am super sad the Central Grid thread has died down. I didn't even get the chance to google anything yet.

Colette Meiji

troll bump a random post in it?

=p

Colette Meiji

Ahh interesting.

I have been looking for that Transcript I read where Zara approved of some of Kain Cleaver's games.

He goes on and on about how he gets games approved ala the Governance team.

He posted a transcript once,

But I've been through his 130ish post history and it seems conspicuously GONE now.

I wonder if it might have been a forgery now.

Joshua Nightshade

I haven't been able to find them either, and I spent two hours going through office hour transcripts.

Colette Meiji

I found the thread. The transcript has definitely been removed either by a mod or the Kain Cleaver.

And I had it Quoted too. But I removed it cause Tiana bitched at me.

Dam it.

SL Forums

shows you what keeping the peace does for you.

Aargle Zymurgy

Zara is the ostensible head of the governance team, in touch with the LL Lawyers and fraud team. I went back to Kremer and re-read their chat policy and re-read the TOS. With that in mind, here's the relevant bits from today's public meeting:

[10:37] Annelin Corrigible: I have a question about the new casinos : the Z$ casinos, are they allowed ?
[10:37] Public Microphone: adding Annelin Corrigible to the question queue.
[10:38] You: better include the S*, G$, LL and Beans stuff in the question, Annelin
... things omitted about behaviour in RP sims....
[10:38] Zara Linden: yes, that is the solution. limit who can enter the sim.
[10:39] Zara Linden: charge a fee, come up with a secret handshake.
[10:39] Alyx Stoklitsky: That's a dead-end stop to community growth.
[10:39] You: LOL @ handshake
[10:39] Zara Linden:
[10:39] You: groups have charters.... if access is limited to the group, then the members have already agreed to the charter.
[10:40] Kaylee Linden: I think we've answered this pretty fully and I know scotts and annelin have questions
[10:40] Annelin Corrigible:
[10:40] Alyx Stoklitsky: Continue. I am done.
[10:41] Annelin Corrigible: Can I ?
[10:41] Zara Linden: wurl, can you repeat your ? please
[10:41] Annelin Corrigible: So Are the new casinos with Z$ instead of L$ allowed ?
[10:43] Zara Linden: to answer your ? annelin...
[10:43] Zara Linden: yes, the games with "Z" are legal
[10:44] Annelin Corrigible: but things like that are casino
[10:44] Zara Linden: the system ( the one we have seen) requires you to play a skill based game to get a payout in L$ which makes it legal
[10:44] Zara Linden: the payout doesn't rely on random number generation
[10:44] Aargle Zymurgy makes a small smile and wave at Annelin
[10:44] Annelin Corrigible: it's like the return of gambling but legal
[10:45] Zara Linden: you can speak to Aargle more about it later, he has the full details
[10:45] Annelin Corrigible: ok
[10:45] Zara Linden: i couldn't say it better than you just did, annelin.
[10:45] Zara Linden: it is entirely legal.
[10:45] Annelin Corrigible: thank you very much