SLUniverse Forums

NeoBokrug Elytis · 07-23-2008, 01:46 PM

Article: Let the games begin: Gambling returns, lag free and (somewhat) Linden$ free

I really don't understand their explanation of the loophole. After reading this all I see is L$ -> Z$ -> L$. You can't really claim it has no value when you apply a Linden Value to it. If you're able to redeem a single linden from it, it has a value.

Basically it runs down like this:

You buy a Z$ for a L$
You play games of chance with your Z$ and your Z$ balance increases or decreases. But you can't cash out on those games of chance.
Then you play a skill based game with an L$, and you can win your Z$ balance back.

Skill based game could easily be, push this button within 24 hours.

Quote:

To date, several Lindens have investigated and the Zorkmid system is ready to launch on July 25, 2008, exactly one year since the first Linden Blog announcement that gambling in SL was going away.

I really don't believe that. I hope it gets shut down yesterday.

armozel · 07-23-2008, 03:46 PM

*waves hand* These are not the gambling nodes you are looking for...

MaxDesoto · 07-24-2008, 06:54 AM

It's already here, "Bicky Beans" are being used for gambling. The only thing is, you can't buy them... you can camp for them, pick them off the bean tree, or you get beans when you buy items from the mall. That must be the loophole, that there is no L$ to beans conversion, although they do allow you to cash out beans to L$.

Aargle Zymurgy · 08-13-2008, 04:33 PM

It always helps to attend Linden meetings. The question of the Zorkmid system legality came up today at the governance team meeting today. TOS prevents me from quoting the chat (even though it was public) but the gist of it was:

Q: Are the $Z (instead of L$) casinos legal?
A: Yes, the system we've seen is legal.
Q: So its like the return of casinos, but legal?
A: That's exactly right, it's legal.

Sorry people don't like games of chance, but why it matters so badly to prevent others from doing it eludes me. Why does it matter to non-participants?

Sansarya · 08-13-2008, 04:39 PM

It doesn't matter to me, I don't care if people gamble. The Zorkmid system is something I like only because the creators are scripters who worked really hard to make sure their systems were as lag free as possible, which was really my ONLY complaint with the old gambling (sim crashing lag, and the casino games were everywhere--in stores, on the neighbor's land, in clubs, etc.)

edit: heh, oh Hi Argyle

Didn't realize that was you posting. Thanks for making almost lag-free casino games

FlipperPA Peregrine · 08-13-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aargle Zymurgy

It always helps to attend Linden meetings. The question of the Zorkmid system legality came up today at the governance team meeting today. TOS prevents me from quoting the chat (even though it was public) but the gist of it was:

Q: Are the (instead of L$) casinos legal?
A: Yes, the system we've seen is legal.
Q: So its like the return of casinos, but legal?
A: That's exactly right, it's legal.

Sorry people don't like games of chance, but why it matters so badly to prevent others from doing it eludes me. Why does it matter to non-participants?

Ummm... that shows your understanding of the ToS. It is not illegal to post chat logs - Lindens post their office hours all the time. It is only illegal to post chat logs or IM conversations on the SL forums. I highly doubt the conversation you posted ever occurred. At least tell us who the Linden was and when their office hours were, and I'll confirm with them.

Regards,

-Flip

Joshua Nightshade · 08-13-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aargle Zymurgy

It always helps to attend Linden meetings. The question of the Zorkmid system legality came up today at the governance team meeting today. TOS prevents me from quoting the chat (even though it was public) but the gist of it was:

Q: Are the (instead of L$) casinos legal?
A: Yes, the system we've seen is legal.
Q: So its like the return of casinos, but legal?
A: That's exactly right, it's legal.

Sorry people don't like games of chance, but why it matters so badly to prevent others from doing it eludes me. Why does it matter to non-participants?

Bullshit.

Once again, the Lindens do not, will not, and have never, ever, ever ruled on the legality of a system.

Stop pushing this lie.

Khamon · 08-13-2008, 07:44 PM

Khamon Fate: Can I have god powers for a couple of days please
Olympic Linden: Sure, no prob, it'll take a few minutes to update your account
Khamon Fate: Gee Thanks1 I promise to use it wisely and discreetly
Olympic Linden: Don't worry about it; we do this for our very best friends all the time
Olympic Linden: In fact, we'll probably forget to ever turn it off so just enjoy!

Aargle Zymurgy · 08-13-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlipperPA Peregrine

Ummm... that shows your understanding of the ToS. It is not illegal to post chat logs - Lindens post their office hours all the time. It is only illegal to post chat logs or IM conversations on the SL forums. I highly doubt the conversation you posted ever occurred. At least tell us who the Linden was and when their office hours were, and I'll confirm with them.

Regards,

-Flip

Help yourself. Governance team meeting, 10AM SLT 2008-08-13, Zara Linden and Kaylee Linden directing the meeting. There were only a couple regulars at the meeting, plus a handful of irregulars and first-timers.

P.S. I'm not here much. Does Joshua Nightshade only contribute profanity to these forums?

Aargle Zymurgy · 08-13-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansarya

edit: heh, oh Hi Argyle

Didn't realize that was you posting. Thanks for making almost lag-free casino games

You're welcome, m'dear. I've always enjoyed creating things. It's just that much better when it's something others can enjoy as much.

Joshua Nightshade · 08-13-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aargle Zymurgy

Help yourself. Governance team meeting, 10AM SLT 2008-08-13, Zara Linden and Kaylee Linden directing the meeting. There were only a couple regulars at the meeting, plus a handful of irregulars and first-timers.

P.S. I'm not here much. Does Joshua Nightshade only contribute profanity to these forums?

When dealing with lying scammers, yeah.

Go fuck yourself, thanks!

Macphisto Angelus · 08-13-2008, 08:03 PM

/me settles in for the next Central Grid epic size thread.

Colette Meiji · 08-13-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Bullshit.

Once again, the Lindens do not, will not, and have never, ever, ever ruled on the legality of a system.

Stop pushing this lie.

I have to agree with Josh.

The Lindens never say whether something is legal.

Once in a while they might say something is allowed.

But they are always careful about using the term "legal" ever. Since LL doesn't decide the law.

I am not sure this Zymurgy person gets the distinction.

Joshua Nightshade · 08-13-2008, 08:19 PM

They've never said something is allowed either.

I knew someone who bent over backwards to try and get a Linden, the one responsible for the blog post about the ban, to come and look at his system and say whether or not it was against the rules. Bent over backwards, invited him over, sent him a copy, the Linden wouldn't teleport or accept the item, said he wouldn't render whether or not something was within their guidelines until after it was AR'd, and even then he would only find out arbitrarily. This was the policy maker, the head of the department, who said no, I won't render the legality or acceptability of any system in SL.

At best Z-Fuck got some random CSR liaison who works out of their house for minimum wage with LL to say "Oh yeah, this is fine!" but nobody who decided policy said so, and sooner or later Arbitrary Linden will delete his shit. Which serves him right for skirting semantics to advertise his systems.

At worst, this is all a complete lie, and you should be ass fucked with a cactus and then get your shit deleted.

And good riddance, because I don't care about gambling, I care about scammy fucks that ruin sims with their shit. Any sort of updating system is going to lag, it's NOT POSSIBLE to make a game in SL and say "Look, we're low-lag!" Coupled with the pathetic behavior that seems to attract people to that sort of income-gatherer and it's a recipe for mouth breathers.

Gigs · 08-13-2008, 09:00 PM

Zara Linden's profile:

Quote:

Hello there, I'm on the Gteam.

*Please note, myself and other members of Gteam cannot offer approval for any in-world game. Do not send an IM. Please review the gambling blog post*

I'm with Joshua. Stop spreading lies.

Joshua Nightshade · 08-13-2008, 09:03 PM

Hi mister gambling guy,

You left your lolcat at my place last night. Thanks!

Joshua Nightshade · 08-13-2008, 09:06 PM

[#MISC-1428] Request for clarification on whether L$ substitutes still violate Linden Lab ban on gambling in SL - Second Life Issues

Already at 50+ votes.

Brenda Connolly · 08-13-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aargle Zymurgy

P.S. I'm not here much. Does Joshua Nightshade only contribute profanity to these forums?

Oh Heavens No! That is only a small part of his charm.

Colette Meiji · 08-13-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

They've never said something is allowed either.

Ahh. I was speaking in more general terms. They have occasionally said this is allowed, or that is allowed over the years.

Such as banking. Not so much specific things, more categories.

-----------

I have read transcripts of Zara Linden saying a gambling device is okay. It seems rather arbitrary.

But as you mentioned not a policy making Linden. I have no clue who Zara is, something to do with gambling enforcement.

Macphisto Angelus · 08-13-2008, 09:35 PM

Now don't go straight for the pwnage yet. I am super sad the Central Grid thread has died down. I didn't even get the chance to google anything yet.

Colette Meiji · 08-13-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macphisto Angelus

Now don't go straight for the pwnage yet. I am super sad the Central Grid thread has died down. I didn't even get the chance to google anything yet.

troll bump a random post in it?

=p

08-13-2008, 04:33 PM	#4 (permalink)
Aargle Zymurgy Zyngo King Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 47 My Mood:	It always helps to attend Linden meetings. The question of the Zorkmid system legality came up today at the governance team meeting today. TOS prevents me from quoting the chat (even though it was public) but the gist of it was: Q: Are the $Z (instead of L$) casinos legal? A: Yes, the system we've seen is legal. Q: So its like the return of casinos, but legal? A: That's exactly right, it's legal. Sorry people don't like games of chance, but why it matters so badly to prevent others from doing it eludes me. Why does it matter to non-participants?

08-13-2008, 07:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
Khamon Back of Cocoanut's Hand Go Figure ~ Who Knew? Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,543 SL Join Date: November, 2003 Business: Fate Gardens SLShopper Ads: 2 My Mood:	Khamon Fate: Can I have god powers for a couple of days please Olympic Linden: Sure, no prob, it'll take a few minutes to update your account Khamon Fate: Gee Thanks1 I promise to use it wisely and discreetly Olympic Linden: Don't worry about it; we do this for our very best friends all the time Olympic Linden: In fact, we'll probably forget to ever turn it off so just enjoy! __________________ "The Republicans expect you to pick yourself up by the bootstraps even when you have no bootstraps. You are on your own." - Barack Obama's concise definition of freedom, liberty, and personal responsibility

07-23-2008, 03:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
armozel Androgynous Android Gonads and Strife! Wee! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Earth Posts: 347 SL Join Date: 2005/6 (Had another older account, lost due to forgetting name...) Blog Entries: 2 My Mood:	waves hand These are not the gambling nodes you are looking for...

07-24-2008, 06:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
MaxDesoto Visit Max's Landfall Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: In Papa Posts: 112	It's already here, "Bicky Beans" are being used for gambling. The only thing is, you can't buy them... you can camp for them, pick them off the bean tree, or you get beans when you buy items from the mall. That must be the loophole, that there is no L$ to beans conversion, although they do allow you to cash out beans to L$.

08-13-2008, 04:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sansarya Koo Koo Kachoo! uhhhh...? Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rosebud Posts: 197 SL Join Date: April 2005 My Mood:	It doesn't matter to me, I don't care if people gamble. The Zorkmid system is something I like only because the creators are scripters who worked really hard to make sure their systems were as lag free as possible, which was really my ONLY complaint with the old gambling (sim crashing lag, and the casino games were everywhere--in stores, on the neighbor's land, in clubs, etc.) edit: heh, oh Hi Argyle Didn't realize that was you posting. Thanks for making almost lag-free casino games

08-13-2008, 08:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 22,224 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	They've never said something is allowed either. I knew someone who bent over backwards to try and get a Linden, the one responsible for the blog post about the ban, to come and look at his system and say whether or not it was against the rules. Bent over backwards, invited him over, sent him a copy, the Linden wouldn't teleport or accept the item, said he wouldn't render whether or not something was within their guidelines until after it was AR'd, and even then he would only find out arbitrarily. This was the policy maker, the head of the department, who said no, I won't render the legality or acceptability of any system in SL. At best Z-Fuck got some random CSR liaison who works out of their house for minimum wage with LL to say "Oh yeah, this is fine!" but nobody who decided policy said so, and sooner or later Arbitrary Linden will delete his shit. Which serves him right for skirting semantics to advertise his systems. At worst, this is all a complete lie, and you should be ass fucked with a cactus and then get your shit deleted. And good riddance, because I don't care about gambling, I care about scammy fucks that ruin sims with their shit. Any sort of updating system is going to lag, it's NOT POSSIBLE to make a game in SL and say "Look, we're low-lag!" Coupled with the pathetic behavior that seems to attract people to that sort of income-gatherer and it's a recipe for mouth breathers.

08-13-2008, 09:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 22,224 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	Hi mister gambling guy, You left your lolcat at my place last night. Thanks!

08-13-2008, 09:06 PM	#17 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 22,224 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	[#MISC-1428] Request for clarification on whether L$ substitutes still violate Linden Lab ban on gambling in SL - Second Life Issues Already at 50+ votes.

08-13-2008, 09:35 PM	#20 (permalink)
Macphisto Angelus Is a bastige! Catching up on threads. Join Date: May 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,885 SL Join Date: 10-21-2004 My Mood:	Now don't go straight for the pwnage yet. I am super sad the Central Grid thread has died down. I didn't even get the chance to google anything yet.

08-13-2008, 09:49 PM	#22 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,385 My Mood: </