SLUniverse Forums

Winter Ventura · 07-13-2008, 12:59 AM

Sorry if this seems a little terse. I'm not in the best of moods at the moment.. but I still need help with this issue.

Among the other brickwalls that have fallen on me tonght, I come to find out that "at some point" in the next few months, I may be staring down the barrel of a forced relocation.

Whether I end up changing landlords, remains to be seen.. as it is, I'm in something of a financial bind at the moment, and am still a bit short of my monthly RL rent. Anyways.. today I was told that my rent is increasing to $25/USD per month for the space where my store is. (2304sq.m., 791 prims)

ANYWAYS. To the poll.

Unfortunately, the "forced relocation" is not scheduled, and is nebulously suggested to be taking place "at some point in the next few months"... If it were my choice, it would be sudden and quick. I have new products about to be released, and I could easily handle the transition in location at the same time. But having to wait, means that now's a great time to start an "update group".. so that when I DO finally move, I can notify people.

I figure that I have 4 major types of solution for an update group.. and I need some help deciding which one to use.

An open invite group.
Pros: simple to understand, people are used to them. Little signs can be made to make joining the group a little easier. The process is a little complicated and thereby serves as it's own intelligence test. Cost: L$100
Cons: people can only be in 25 groups. people quit groups, particularly if they're not busy. Spam, people join open enrollment groups to beg for cash, etc. Open enroll groups can be rejoined if you're kicked.
Bot-driven automatic group invites
Pros: MUCH simpler, one click and the invite is there. Can use close-enrollment group permission. Bot can maintain a banlist.
Cons: Expensive (L$3100), people leave groups, 25 group limit, Bot must be logged in semi-frequently. (not really a con, bot can also serve as fashion model in shop)
Subscribe-O-Matic (hippo and others).
Pros: doesn't use a group slot. People like them, ESPECIALLY fashion people. No spam in the group.
Cons: F'ing expensive (L$1500/month for 250 subscribers on SoM, L$3k/mo for 500, L$6k/mo for unlimited members... Hippo's is cheaper, but it's still monthly), ongoing expense, people can "forget" that they joined a group, particularly if it's not very active. Likelihood of being ARed for spam is much higher. Every announcement will bring a rash of complaints and demands to be removed.
Subscribe-O-Manual. Make a sign for people to click, save off the keys as emails. Feed the UUIDs into scripted delivery objects AS NEEDED.
Pros: code can be added to vendors as well. Free. Simple to operate, no spam. Doesn't take a group slot.
Cons: high amount of work and patience required. AR likelihood is just as high as SoM, if not higher. NEarly impossible to remove people who complain about "mailings".

Aki Shichiroji · 07-13-2008, 01:18 AM

I'm currently using Subscribomatic. It's easy enough to use and people can subscribe/unsubscribe at will. Kind of pricey per month though, especially if you have something like over 50 people in your group...? I will need to check again.

Alternatively if you're script savvy, you could probably rig up something similar. You could have folks click a box that records their name or UUID, then sends out something to all of the included UUIDs. If you bought two items that accomplished this, I imagine you would not need to pay subscription fees at all.

As far as groups? I'm not a big fan of update groups since they take up a group slot and usually don't offer much more functionality than a subscribomatic or alternative product would do.

Joshua Nightshade · 07-13-2008, 01:21 AM

I have no product update group specifically because I don't want to deal with group spam.

Winter Ventura · 07-13-2008, 03:20 AM

personally, I agree. But with this forced move, and the sudden increase in my rent.. well I'm actually considering moving sooner.. and the need to be able to tell people where I've moved TO is becoming a concern.

particularly if I'm having to cover rent immediately following the move.

Personally, I'm actually leaning towards the bot. There's something in the description about it's ability to make "sublists" of members. I need to learn more about that.

Joshua Nightshade · 07-13-2008, 03:23 AM

Updating your classifieds and picks isn't sufficient? I've moved plenty and never had trouble that way.

Miriel Enfield · 07-13-2008, 03:40 AM

I prefer regular groups, done either via regular enrollment or a bot. I dislike the way the Subscribe-O-Matic style services don't keep an archive of notices. And god forbid my IMs cap and I don't have them sent to my email.

Also, when Subscribe-O-Matic was starting out, they sent me a couple unsolicited ads for their service. That's not the kind of thing I want to encourage, and they've been on my shit list ever since.

Winter Ventura · 07-13-2008, 03:41 AM

Well, I beleive that a lot of my sales come from "word of mouth" and returning customers. Through the sharing and usage of landmarks. The wealth of landmarks I have out there become null and void when I move.

The thing I'm seeing is, when I get the robot out there, there's going to be an influx of visitors, and purchasing or not, they'll be grabbing landmarks. Since I'm going into this, realising that one way or another, those landmarks will be expiring, probably before my next major product release, I'm hoping to find a way to "link up" those people when moving day finally does come.

Oh how I wish we had a way to update landmarks.

WarKirby Magojiro · 07-13-2008, 03:43 AM

My update group is closed enrolment. I invite people manually every week or two. My database sorts the data and just gives me a list of twho to invite though, which makes that simpler.

Psyke Phaeton · 07-13-2008, 03:43 AM

I have had a open enrolment group for more than 2 years. And only seen about 3 attempts at spam.

Joshua Nightshade · 07-13-2008, 03:46 AM

I see spam at least two times a day in the open enrollment groups I'm in on.

WarKirby Magojiro · 07-13-2008, 04:02 AM

My group used to be open enrolment, but I had to stop that due to spam.

Psyke Phaeton · 07-13-2008, 04:12 AM

Might be because my groups name is not related to my "company's" name or product name. Or maybe I should log in more LOL

Wildefire Walcott · 07-13-2008, 04:16 AM

As a subscribe-o-matic user, I can tell you I've never had a single person claim they were being spammed or request to be removed. People can and do remove themselves at the kiosks. Now I've only sent to the list a couple of times... ANYONE's gonna get pissed off if they start getting notecards or whatever every time they log in. It is goddam expensive though; my list is over 1K subscribers now.

Mourna Biziou · 07-13-2008, 05:22 AM

I don't like bot invites, or invites to groups just because I bought something there. Maybe it's just me, but it annoys the hell out of me and I'm likely to decline out of annoyance. It's like overbearing salespeople in shops. I dunno, maybe I'm strange.

I prefer a subscribe-o-matic/manual or open enrollment. I've never seen much group spam from shop update groups, either. Maybe once or twice a month, not enough to seriously bug me.

Joshua Nightshade · 07-13-2008, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mourna Biziou

I don't like bot invites, or invites to groups just because I bought something there. Maybe it's just me, but it annoys the hell out of me and I'm likely to decline out of annoyance. It's like overbearing salespeople in shops. I dunno, maybe I'm strange.

I prefer a subscribe-o-matic/manual or open enrollment. I've never seen much group spam from shop update groups, either. Maybe once or twice a month, not enough to seriously bug me.

I would probably never shop at a place that did that again. If I did it would be after a nasty IM to the shop owner.

Briana Dawson · 07-13-2008, 06:40 AM

I think Update Groups are probably the way to go. They are very popular and a person can choose to join or not.

I am not sure this forum is a good cross section of residents to use for such a decision. It seems the majority of lay residents use update groups and most of these people do not use the forums.

Kind of like Bling. The majority of SL residents love that, especially new residents - but people the SL forums and 3rd party forums always speak poorly of it.

Go with an Open Enrollment Update Group.

Daman · 07-13-2008, 07:30 AM

I hate update groups - I only have 25 groups, and I have better things to spend those slots on, especially considering there ARE alternatives.

I do join the SOM of every store I shop at though. One click and I never have to bother anymore. That is, except when the store spams too much imo. I only ever left one SOM, and it was because the storeowner sent like 5 notices a day out on it.

Amelia · 07-13-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briana Dawson

I am not sure this forum is a good cross section of residents to use for such a decision. It seems the majority of lay residents use update groups and most of these people do not use the forums.

What, Briana, are you saying we in forum are marginal and disposessed misfits???

Lame joke aside, go with an open invite group and let 3 or 4 friends who are online at various times of the day to be operator so they can kick spammers, if need be. I do remove myself from a group when I need the space but I can always rejoin if I want to be updated.

Ingrid N. · 07-13-2008, 08:52 AM

I like open invite update groups

.

And I like seeing update groups in my profile cause it reminds me to check the corresponding stores to see if they have anything new out (since group messages STILL DON'T WORK FOR ME 90% OF THE TIME

)

I'm on a few Subscribe-o-matic lists, but I frequently forget I am in them. I remember when I get a message, though

. Anyway, if I get that message upon logging in, I will most likely ignore it/not see it because I'm checking my offline IMs.

I really prefer group messages, but as I said... 90% of the time I don't get them because LL can't be arsed to fix groups for some reason that eludes me.

Aki Shichiroji · 07-13-2008, 10:32 AM

I am always juggling groups around due to the 25 group limit and never have spots for shop update groups. I also really dislike that such groups only really need the notice-sending capability to send updates, but running such notices through a group causes the potential for chat spam. Correct me if I am wrong... but isn't it true that a spammer can still post to group chat even if they've been booted from the group? This is obnoxious behavior that I have no patience for both as a content creator and a customer.

Since many tools are provided through a group, I find they're usually overkill for the simple purpose of providing updates for customers, while group slots are in short supply.

View Poll Results: What do you think?
Simple Open Enrollment Group	10	45.45%
Bot Driven Group Invites	2	9.09%
Subscribe-o-matic style system	13	59.09%
Homebrewed "Subscribe-o-manual"	4	18.18%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

07-13-2008, 12:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
Winter Ventura Eclectic Randomness EAT ME! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 816 SL Join Date: 7/13/2006 Business: Eclectic Randomness SLShopper Ads: 5 My Mood:	Update Groups Sorry if this seems a little terse. I'm not in the best of moods at the moment.. but I still need help with this issue. Among the other brickwalls that have fallen on me tonght, I come to find out that "at some point" in the next few months, I may be staring down the barrel of a forced relocation. Whether I end up changing landlords, remains to be seen.. as it is, I'm in something of a financial bind at the moment, and am still a bit short of my monthly RL rent. Anyways.. today I was told that my rent is increasing to $25/USD per month for the space where my store is. (2304sq.m., 791 prims) ANYWAYS. To the poll. Unfortunately, the "forced relocation" is not scheduled, and is nebulously suggested to be taking place "at some point in the next few months"... If it were my choice, it would be sudden and quick. I have new products about to be released, and I could easily handle the transition in location at the same time. But having to wait, means that now's a great time to start an "update group".. so that when I DO finally move, I can notify people. I figure that I have 4 major types of solution for an update group.. and I need some help deciding which one to use. An open invite group. Pros: simple to understand, people are used to them. Little signs can be made to make joining the group a little easier. The process is a little complicated and thereby serves as it's own intelligence test. Cost: L$100 Cons: people can only be in 25 groups. people quit groups, particularly if they're not busy. Spam, people join open enrollment groups to beg for cash, etc. Open enroll groups can be rejoined if you're kicked. Bot-driven automatic group invites Pros: MUCH simpler, one click and the invite is there. Can use close-enrollment group permission. Bot can maintain a banlist. Cons: Expensive (L$3100), people leave groups, 25 group limit, Bot must be logged in semi-frequently. (not really a con, bot can also serve as fashion model in shop) Subscribe-O-Matic (hippo and others). Pros: doesn't use a group slot. People like them, ESPECIALLY fashion people. No spam in the group. Cons: F'ing expensive (L$1500/month for 250 subscribers on SoM, L$3k/mo for 500, L$6k/mo for unlimited members... Hippo's is cheaper, but it's still monthly), ongoing expense, people can "forget" that they joined a group, particularly if it's not very active. Likelihood of being ARed for spam is much higher. Every announcement will bring a rash of complaints and demands to be removed. Subscribe-O-Manual. Make a sign for people to click, save off the keys as emails. Feed the UUIDs into scripted delivery objects AS NEEDED. Pros: code can be added to vendors as well. Free. Simple to operate, no spam. Doesn't take a group slot. Cons: high amount of work and patience required. AR likelihood is just as high as SoM, if not higher. NEarly impossible to remove people who complain about "mailings". __________________ There's a little bit of paradise.. the way hot pepperoni, mushrooms, pineapple and melted cheese all come together in a single moment in time. Last edited by Winter Ventura; 07-13-2008 at 02:01 AM..

07-13-2008, 01:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
Aki Shichiroji Senior Member Carcinogenic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sylvan Posts: 748 SL Join Date: 7/22/2006 Business: Kitheres & Organica SLShopper Ads: 8 My Mood:	I'm currently using Subscribomatic. It's easy enough to use and people can subscribe/unsubscribe at will. Kind of pricey per month though, especially if you have something like over 50 people in your group...? I will need to check again. Alternatively if you're script savvy, you could probably rig up something similar. You could have folks click a box that records their name or UUID, then sends out something to all of the included UUIDs. If you bought two items that accomplished this, I imagine you would not need to pay subscription fees at all. As far as groups? I'm not a big fan of update groups since they take up a group slot and usually don't offer much more functionality than a subscribomatic or alternative product would do. __________________ Also See: Kitheres Industries (scifi avs, skins, and accessories) \| Organica Updates \| Blog

07-13-2008, 01:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Custom Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 22,574 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	I have no product update group specifically because I don't want to deal with group spam. __________________ joshuameadows.com \| blog.abstractavatars.com

07-13-2008, 03:43 AM	#9 (permalink)
Psyke Phaeton Psyke's Defense Systems None Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Behind the Great Firewall of Australia Posts: 4,979 SL Join Date: 12-Oct-2003 Business: Psyke's Defence Systems Blog Entries: 3 SLShopper Ads: 1	I have had a open enrolment group for more than 2 years. And only seen about 3 attempts at spam. __________________ Χάος \| Psyke's Defense Systems - the original security orbs \| Psyke's AjaxLife - Free web based Second Life access.

07-13-2008, 03:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
Winter Ventura Eclectic Randomness EAT ME! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 816 SL Join Date: 7/13/2006 Business: Eclectic Randomness SLShopper Ads: 5 My Mood:	personally, I agree. But with this forced move, and the sudden increase in my rent.. well I'm actually considering moving sooner.. and the need to be able to tell people where I've moved TO is becoming a concern. particularly if I'm having to cover rent immediately following the move. Personally, I'm actually leaning towards the bot. There's something in the description about it's ability to make "sublists" of members. I need to learn more about that.

07-13-2008, 03:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Custom Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 22,574 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	Updating your classifieds and picks isn't sufficient? I've moved plenty and never had trouble that way.

07-13-2008, 03:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
Miriel Enfield Mad Artist Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,083 Business: Miriel SLShopper Ads: 2	I prefer regular groups, done either via regular enrollment or a bot. I dislike the way the Subscribe-O-Matic style services don't keep an archive of notices. And god forbid my IMs cap and I don't have them sent to my email. Also, when Subscribe-O-Matic was starting out, they sent me a couple unsolicited ads for their service. That's not the kind of thing I want to encourage, and they've been on my shit list ever since.

07-13-2008, 03:41 AM	#7 (permalink)
Winter Ventura Eclectic Randomness EAT ME! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 816 SL Join Date: 7/13/2006 Business: Eclectic Randomness SLShopper Ads: 5 My Mood:	Well, I beleive that a lot of my sales come from "word of mouth" and returning customers. Through the sharing and usage of landmarks. The wealth of landmarks I have out there become null and void when I move. The thing I'm seeing is, when I get the robot out there, there's going to be an influx of visitors, and purchasing or not, they'll be grabbing landmarks. Since I'm going into this, realising that one way or another, those landmarks will be expiring, probably before my next major product release, I'm hoping to find a way to "link up" those people when moving day finally does come. Oh how I wish we had a way to update landmarks.

07-13-2008, 03:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Custom Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 22,574 SL Join Date: 10-11-2004 Business: abstract avatars! SLShopper Ads: 16 My Mood:	I see spam at least two times a day in the open enrollment groups I'm in on.

07-13-2008, 04:02 AM	#11 (permalink)
WarKirby Magojiro Doing stuff Made new armor ^^ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 2,608 SL Join Date: 14/10/2006 Business: MagoTek Industries SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood:	My group used to be open enrolment, but I had to stop that due to spam.

07-13-2008, 04:12 AM	#12 (permalink)
Psyke Phaeton Psyke's Defense Systems None Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Behind the Great Firewall of Australia Posts: 4,979 SL Join Date: 12-Oct-2003 Business: Psyke's Defence Systems Blog Entries: 3 SLShopper Ads: 1	Might be because my groups name is not related to my "company's" name or product name. Or maybe I should log in more LOL

07-13-2008, 04:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
Wildefire Walcott Shaven Maven Abducted by gnomes. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,790 SL Join Date: 2005.10.28 Business: Desperation Isle Estates SLShopper Ads: 4 My Mood:	As a subscribe-o-matic user, I can tell you I've never had a single person claim they were being spammed or request to be removed. People can and do remove themselves at the kiosks. Now I've only sent to the list a couple of times... ANYONE's gonna get pissed off if they start getting notecards or whatever every time they log in. It is goddam expensive though; my list is over 1K subscribers now. __________________ Desperation Isle Estates: Great prices, great neighbors, great service! New Desperation Isle: The prettiest BDSM Playground and Fetish Mall in SL! Desperation Isle Productions: Scripted skyboxes for lots (and budgets) of all sizes! Wildefire Walcott's Mistressy Musings: My blog about D/s and BDSM in Second Life.

07-13-2008, 05:22 AM	#14 (permalink)
Mourna Biziou N. Señora de la Sangre /reserved Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,014 SLShopper Ads: 2 My Mood:	I don't like bot invites, or invites to groups just because I bought something there. Maybe it's just me, but it annoys the hell out of me and I'm likely to decline out of annoyance. It's like overbearing salespeople in shops. I dunno, maybe I'm strange. I prefer a subscribe-o-matic/manual or open enrollment. I've never seen much group spam from shop update groups, either. Maybe once or twice a month, not enough to seriously bug me. __________________ Mah Flickah

07-13-2008, 06:40 AM	#16 (permalink)
Briana Dawson Senior Member Loved by printesa Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Springfield, Illinois Posts: 3,501 SL Join Date: September 23, 2003 Business: N&B Exports My Mood: Awards: 1	I think Update Groups are probably the way to go. They are very popular and a person can choose to join or not. I am not sure this forum is a good cross section of residents to use for such a decision. It seems the majority of lay residents use update groups and most of these people do not use the forums. Kind of like Bling. The majority of SL residents love that, especially new residents - but people the SL forums and 3rd party forums always speak poorly of it. Go with an Open Enrollment Update Group.

07-13-2008, 07:30 AM	#17 (permalink)
Daman Wodenborn Sovereign Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Europe Posts: 1,536 SL Join Date: May 2007 My Mood:	I hate update groups - I only have 25 groups, and I have better things to spend those slots on, especially considering there ARE alternatives. I do join the SOM of every store I shop at though. One click and I never have to bother anymore. That is, except when the store spams too much imo. I only ever left one SOM, and it was because the storeowner sent like 5 notices a day out on it. __________________ I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

07-13-2008, 08:52 AM	#19 (permalink)
Ingrid N. ist hungrig diminuitive doe Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,440 Blog Entries: 1 My Mood:	I like open invite update groups . And I like seeing update groups in my profile cause it reminds me to check the corresponding stores to see if they have anything new out (since group messages STILL DON'T WORK FOR ME 90% OF THE TIME ) I'm on a few Subscribe-o-matic lists, but I frequently forget I am in them. I remember when I get a message, though . Anyway, if I get that message upon logging in, I will most likely ignore it/not see it because I'm checking my offline IMs. I really prefer group messages, but as I said... 90% of the time I don't get them because LL can't be arsed to fix groups for some reason that eludes me. __________________ Oh No, Ingrid!

07-13-2008, 10:32 AM	#20 (permalink)
Aki Shichiroji Senior Member Carcinogenic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sylvan Posts: 748 SL Join Date: 7/22/2006 Business: Kitheres & Organica SLShopper Ads: 8 My Mood:	I am always juggling groups around due to the 25 group limit and never have spots for shop update groups. I also really dislike that such groups only really need the notice-sending capability to send updates, but running such notices through a group causes the potential for chat spam. Correct me if I am wrong... but isn't it true that a spammer can still post to group chat even if they've been booted from the group? This is obnoxious behavior that I have no patience for both as a content creator and a customer. Since many tools are provided through a group, I find they're usually overkill for the simple purpose of providing updates for customers, while group slots are in short supply.

07-13-2008, 11:23 AM	#21 (permalink)
Wildefire Walcott Shaven Maven Abducted by gnomes. Join Date: Jun 2007