SLUniverse Forums

Wildefire Walcott · 06-04-2008, 05:39 PM

In case you haven't seen it, this thread on the official forums showed that 3 new sims whose auctions closed today went unsold, and one sold for a measly 752 bucks. I don't know what it means, but I think this is unprecedented.

Quote:

Exitros (128,128) Mature 65536m
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Current bid: $750.00
0 bids | Bid History
Price per m2: 0.01 US$
Open date: 6/2/08 12:00:00 PM PDT
Close date: 6/4/08 12:00:00 PM PDT
End Time: Closed

Upper Dryston (128,128) Mature 65536m
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Current bid: $750.00
0 bids | Bid History
Price per m2: 0.01 US$
Open date: 6/2/08 12:20:00 PM PDT
Close date: 6/4/08 12:20:00 PM PDT
End Time: Closed

Veenfurt (128,128) Mature 65536m
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Current bid: $750.00
0 bids | Bid History
Price per m2: 0.01 US$
Open date: 6/2/08 12:40:00 PM PDT
Close date: 6/4/08 12:40:00 PM PDT
End Time: Closed

Quiplash · 06-04-2008, 05:47 PM

Holy crap.

I wonder if this means they're going to start throttling back on new sim releases.

Here's a quote from the pointed-to thread that I agree with wholeheartedly:

Cristalle Karami said "In light of the Bay City land auctions going for close to full sim prices (or two, at these rates) for double prim plots, I think this is more of a referendum on tier and added value than anything else. People want more for their money, and are willing to pay more in the short term for the long term benefit of cheaper tier. Maybe a modicum of infrastructure other than unpaved Linden Roads is warranted to get empty sims filled... lighthouses, unique gardens, artistic structures... Linden protected green spaces that are actually pretty and give a sense of community, that may provide at least one guaranteed pleasant view that isn't going to change."

At these prices I could easily have purchased a whole sim, but in the long run I'd land up paying a LOT more with the much higher tier rate. AND the built-in infrastructure of the Bay City sims is why I plunked down Lindens in the first place. I don't have the time or energy right now to design a whole sim from scratch; I just wanted a nice environment where I could "plug in". I just wanted a nice piece of double-prim land with a seaside view and a beach nearby. The bowling alley, movie theatre, archaeological dig, and all manner of public transportation (hot air balloon, helicopter, airship, trolley, water trolley) are bonuses.

Dnate Mars · 06-04-2008, 05:49 PM

I guess it means that the price of land has really fallen lately.

Sarah Nerd · 06-04-2008, 06:04 PM

At Jacks office hour tonight he said that if they aren't selling no point in adding more. I'll get the log posted withing the hour on my blog.

Sarah Nerd · 06-04-2008, 06:58 PM

Jack Lindens Office Hour 6-04-2008 | Your2ndPlace

I'd some issues getting it to display for some reason beyond the sites front page so I also attached it as a file you can click on and read.

Modesta Heying · 06-05-2008, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah Nerd

At Jacks office hour tonight he said that if they aren't selling no point in adding more. I'll get the log posted withing the hour on my blog.

I just noticed the new continent NW above the current continent, Gaeta. I'm getting depressed.

Khamon · 06-05-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah Nerd

At Jacks office hour tonight he said that if they aren't selling no point in adding more. I'll get the log posted withing the hour on my blog.

He's wrong. If "they aren't selling," LL should work to improve the service and put out some sims with features that'll attract people to buy. It's a rather lax and defeatist attitude to just stop working because people aren't busting down your door.

This is the kind of thing M needs to fix, quickly, yesterday.

ZATZAi · 06-05-2008, 09:33 AM

I think the new openspaces prices and flexibility really put the market on its ear. A lot of people seem be consolidating their islands and turning the empties into openspace because its what a lot of people want now. I think with time one of two things will happen, either the demand will cool off some as people realize openspace sims are really poor performance compared to a regular sim under load (It could be described as going back to Class 3). Or mono and/or class 6 will come out and improve openspace performance enough that its acceptable.

Lucifer Baphomet · 06-05-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khamon

He's wrong. If "they aren't selling," LL should work to improve the service and put out some sims with features that'll attract people to buy. It's a rather lax and defeatist attitude to just stop working because people aren't busting down your door.

This is the kind of thing M needs to fix, quickly, yesterday.

Dropping prices would help.

Ray Figtree · 06-05-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet

Dropping prices would help.

Prices have already dropped. They need to lower tier...

Dnate Mars · 06-05-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Figtree

Prices have already dropped. They need to lower tier...

I think that mainland tier is fine. If they really want to destroy the mainland they would drop tier on PI.

Sarah Nerd · 06-05-2008, 12:14 PM

More options or not, 100 bucks is a big difference

Atashi Yue · 06-05-2008, 12:24 PM

I haven't noticed a big performance hit on open spaces. Mind you, I'm not looking at the numbers, this is just observation from being in one that is used pretty heavily (Nova Civis, Caledon). I wouldn't hesitate to go with an open space sim if I were looking for a big space for myself.

Modesta Heying · 06-05-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Figtree

Prices have already dropped. They need to lower tier...

I would be more happy with lower tier than lower land prices.
Oh, and I would love it if LL would lower the transaction fees in Lindex too. Lindex kills just as much or sometimes more than tier.

Lucifer Baphomet · 06-05-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Figtree

Prices have already dropped. They need to lower tier...

Not by enough...

And yes tier too.

I was thinking of tier as part of the pricing system.

ZATZAi · 06-05-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atashi Yue

I haven't noticed a big performance hit on open spaces. Mind you, I'm not looking at the numbers, this is just observation from being in one that is used pretty heavily (Nova Civis, Caledon). I wouldn't hesitate to go with an open space sim if I were looking for a big space for myself.

It makes a big difference with scripts (How many you can run with reasonable response times), physics tend to handle ok but you can overload the sim with like 20-30 people whereas a full sim can actually handle 65 people (Just the client cant).So its great for residential use, but not for commercial or event use.

Khamon · 06-05-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZATZAi

It makes a big difference with scripts (How many you can run with reasonable response times)...its great for residential use, but not for commercial or event use.

This amuses me to no end Z. Have you ever seen an inworld residence that didn't run at least twice the average number of scripts most businesses require? People are always saying residential is prettier and less lagacious than commercial properties but that's simply not true. In fact, my experience is generally the opposite.

Love · 06-05-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZATZAi

It makes a big difference with scripts (How many you can run with reasonable response times), physics tend to handle ok but you can overload the sim with like 20-30 people whereas a full sim can actually handle 65 people (Just the client cant).So its great for residential use, but not for commercial or event use.

Why is that? When you figure that LL allocates the same resources to 4 openspaces that they do to 1 normal sim (for an equal number of prims to manage), and assuming an average scripts/prim usage, I don't really see there being more scripts per processing power as with a normal sim.

I agree there's extra overhead - 4 times as much land, 4 times the overhead, but not really 4 times the number of scripts to process.

The gotcha as I see it is that you don't know who your neighbours are. The others on the same processor but a different sim. If one of them is going nuts with scripts, you'll suffer and not know why.

Wildefire Walcott · 06-05-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khamon

This amuses me to no end Z. Have you ever seen an inworld residence that didn't run at least twice the average number of scripts most businesses require? People are always saying residential is prettier and less lagacious than commercial properties but that's simply not true. In fact, my experience is generally the opposite.

Go to any full-sim mall and tell me if you still feel that way.

Wildefire Walcott · 06-05-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love

Why is that? When you figure that LL allocates the same resources to 4 openspaces that they do to 1 normal sim (for an equal number of prims to manage), and assuming an average scripts/prim usage, I don't really see there being more scripts per processing power as with a normal sim.

I agree there's extra overhead - 4 times as much land, 4 times the overhead, but not really 4 times the number of scripts to process.

The gotcha as I see it is that you don't know who your neighbours are. The others on the same processor but a different sim. If one of them is going nuts with scripts, you'll suffer and not know why.

16 sims on one server = potentially 4 times as much storage access per server, potentially 4 times as much network traffic per server (especially if the openspace sim is adjacent to other sims), 1/4 the memory of a full sim, plus whatever architectural overhead there is with sharing sims on a single core. A poorly performing openspace sim poses more of a threat to its server neighbors than a poorly performing full sim.

Love · 06-05-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildefire Walcott

16 sims on one server = potentially 4 times as much storage access per server, potentially 4 times as much network traffic per server (especially if the openspace sim is adjacent to other sims), 1/4 the memory of a full sim, plus whatever architectural overhead there is with sharing sims on a single core. A poorly performing openspace sim poses more of a threat to its server neighbors than a poorly performing full sim.

Well yes, from the blog:

Quote:

Unlike normal regions that effectively get a CPU to themselves on the server, there can be up to four Openspaces on a single CPU, sharing the resource (hence them being ‘light use’).

So more memory possibly (but same overall prims, so I guess it depends on where memory is really used), and all the other overhead stuff (including networking) - agreed. My argument is the that there should be the same number of scripts, on average. Perhaps more physics processing, but ZATZAi has already claimed that the impact there is low.

To clarify, I can see how openspace sims put more load on a machine, but I don't understand why the performance hit is primarily scripts.

06-04-2008, 05:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
Quiplash aka Dances With Skulls Going, going... Goth! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: in a box under the freeway Posts: 946 My Mood:	Holy crap. I wonder if this means they're going to start throttling back on new sim releases. Here's a quote from the pointed-to thread that I agree with wholeheartedly: Cristalle Karami said "In light of the Bay City land auctions going for close to full sim prices (or two, at these rates) for double prim plots, I think this is more of a referendum on tier and added value than anything else. People want more for their money, and are willing to pay more in the short term for the long term benefit of cheaper tier. Maybe a modicum of infrastructure other than unpaved Linden Roads is warranted to get empty sims filled... lighthouses, unique gardens, artistic structures... Linden protected green spaces that are actually pretty and give a sense of community, that may provide at least one guaranteed pleasant view that isn't going to change." At these prices I could easily have purchased a whole sim, but in the long run I'd land up paying a LOT more with the much higher tier rate. AND the built-in infrastructure of the Bay City sims is why I plunked down Lindens in the first place. I don't have the time or energy right now to design a whole sim from scratch; I just wanted a nice environment where I could "plug in". I just wanted a nice piece of double-prim land with a seaside view and a beach nearby. The bowling alley, movie theatre, archaeological dig, and all manner of public transportation (hot air balloon, helicopter, airship, trolley, water trolley) are bonuses. Last edited by Quiplash; 06-04-2008 at 05:58 PM..

06-04-2008, 05:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Dnate Mars Tastes like purple Waiting for the right time Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Home Posts: 8,307 Funny Bubbles Champion! Wordtris Champion! SL Join Date: 01/27/2004 Business: Scripter for hire My Mood:	I guess it means that the price of land has really fallen lately. __________________ SLU Clubhouse - Open 24/7 Visit at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Tan/138/25/25 <Duke Chaparral> On panther paws he stalks radiating mystery and cacophony from his bunching feline muscles as he slowly stalks his Vertiprey.... <Duke Chaparral> tearing her from her employment shackles with his razor like claws he drags her off to his azure cougar den...

06-04-2008, 06:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sarah Nerd I BUY LAND Can I play with your land? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Shermerville Posts: 7,145 Harpoon Lagoon Champion! SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood: Awards: 2	At Jacks office hour tonight he said that if they aren't selling no point in adding more. I'll get the log posted withing the hour on my blog. __________________ www.SarahNerd.com http://www.your2ndplace.com/sarahnerd

06-05-2008, 09:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
ZATZAi Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California Posts: 2,423 XBOX Leaderboard: 9^th	I think the new openspaces prices and flexibility really put the market on its ear. A lot of people seem be consolidating their islands and turning the empties into openspace because its what a lot of people want now. I think with time one of two things will happen, either the demand will cool off some as people realize openspace sims are really poor performance compared to a regular sim under load (It could be described as going back to Class 3). Or mono and/or class 6 will come out and improve openspace performance enough that its acceptable. __________________ - ZATZAi

06-04-2008, 06:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sarah Nerd I BUY LAND Can I play with your land? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Shermerville Posts: 7,145 Harpoon Lagoon Champion! SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood: Awards: 2	Jack Lindens Office Hour 6-04-2008 \| Your2ndPlace I'd some issues getting it to display for some reason beyond the sites front page so I also attached it as a file you can click on and read.

06-05-2008, 12:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
Sarah Nerd I BUY LAND Can I play with your land? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Shermerville Posts: 7,145 Harpoon Lagoon Champion! SLShopper Ads: 1 My Mood: Awards: 2	More options or not, 100 bucks is a big difference

06-05-2008, 12:24 PM	#13 (permalink)
Atashi Yue Meh(Tee Em) Outside the Median Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,013 SLShopper Ads: 4 My Mood:	I haven't noticed a big performance hit on open spaces. Mind you, I'm not looking at the numbers, this is just observation from being in one that is used pretty heavily (Nova Civis, Caledon). I wouldn't hesitate to go with an open space sim if I were looking for a big space for myself.